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The New is in the Old concealed!

DaPastor

DaPastor

Member
Real Person
Scripture tells us that "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter" (Proverbs 25:2). I thought I would share an insight that many of you may already know, but it is encouraging to see how God's Word prophesied the essence of the Gospel message by chapter 5 of Genesis. Before I share that, first let me share a little rhyme to express how the Old and New covenants work together - generally speaking:

The New is in the Old contained,
The Old is in the New explained,
The New is in the Old concealed,
The Old is in the New revealed,
The New is in the Old enfolded,
The Old is in the New unfolded.
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If one looks at the genealogy in Genesis 5, one will notice the following list: Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalal'el, Jared, Enoch; Methusaleh, Lamech, and Noah. Each of these name have specific Hebrew definitions as follows:

Adam (man)
Seth (appointed)
Enosh (from root anash, "to be incurable": mortal, frail, miserable)
Kenan (sorrow)
Mahalal'el (the Blessed God - mahalal "blessed", [El] the name for God)
Jared (from the verb yaradh, "shall come down")
Enoch (commencement, or teaching)
Methusaleh (his death shall bring - muth, a root that means "death"; shalach means "bring" or "send forth")
Lamech (despairing, from which we get "lament" or "lamentation")
Noah (comfort or rest)

So, here is how it looks in a English sentence:

"Man [is] appointed mortal sorrow; [but] the blessed God shall come down teaching [that His] death shall bring [the] despairing rest"
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This should encourage us that every detail of Scripture is there by design, and His Word is trustworthy. I hope this blessed you. :)
 
Brother Randy,
We serve a mighty, wonderful and great God. I am always dumb struck and humbled at the wonderful things that He showes me in His word that I had never thought about or was made aware of.



from back out in the Gulf
 
so true, and that point about Methusaleh is lost upon most people. They were warned, and the one who was named prophetically to warn all others of impending judgement lived to be the oldest recorded man ever, showing the mercy of our almighty Elohim! Tradition says that the flood came 7 days after his death because Noah requested time to mourn his passing, and while Noah mourned, the others celebrated because the destruction didn't come as prophesied, so they figured they were scotch free. How wrong they were.
Watch the signs....
 
I see the new testament as expounding on a old truth. It is not adding to the old truth or taking away from the old truth but extrapolating from the truths that already exsist. Putting two or three truths together that were never put together before and realizing the new truth. This new truth will not contradict the old truth for the old truth is its foundation. We have new truth that did not add to or take away from scripture and doesnt contradict. This is how we prove all things hold fast to that which is Good. Truth can never contradict truth. Only lies contradict truth. Two lies put together will contradict truth. A lie and a truth will contradict truth. Only when two truths of gods word and put them together can you find the consealed truth in Gods word.
 
How true, sixth_heretic!

How easily Satan misleads us by suggesting to us that a "little" untruth won't hurt.

(May I call you "Nr. 6" for short?)
 
You can call me mr. bobby socks fruity baby if it make you feel better. #6 wont bother me one bit.
 
How Lewsian of you #6. Well, you could have seen it elsewhere or come up with it yourself, but the no new truths line reminds me very much of C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity and Screwtape Letters.
 
Truth is truth and truth is free. Truth should not be sold or with held if their are those that seek it. But do not cast perals before the swine. Conceal the truth from the fools and the unbelievers. WE should all take a page out of Jesus hand book and filter those who are seeking truth from those who are seeking strife. And only teach those that are willing to be humble to the word of God. This is why if a man wish to be ignorant we should let him be ignorant. I have never read anything by CS lewis but I did see the narnia films. I am not much of a mainstream christain. There is a whole chirstian sub-culture that I completly missed. When christians talk about the band JC talk or veggie tables I dont know anything about it. I know CS lewis was a huge Christian author I just never read him. I was a only child of a single mother. I meet my dad when I graduated from high school. At 20 I found out My dad is a cult leader. I joined his cult on my 21 birthday. I got black listed from his church at the age of 24 and have been studing on my own since. So yeah the whole Christian experiance kind of passed me by.
 
Lewis is a huge Christian author, but the Narnia films holywoodize and strip a lot of it away. If you like Sci-Fi books at all look for Out of the Silent Planet, its very different than most sci-fi and not very well known, but its darned loaded.

Lewis wouldn't come to any conclusions you couldn't find on you're own, but its pretty deep stuff all around and its one of the very few authors I'd recommend. Mere Christianity is in many ways his most basic work of theology,and it details very well how and why Christianity is different than other systems of belief.

Good Job getting blacklisted!

sm_heretic.jpg


http://www.octanecreative.com/stainedglasses/
 
Well it wasnt the first time and it hasnt been the last. I have a habit of teaching truths to people that dont want to hear it. That is why I feel as though I am an authority on the subject. I have been kicked out of coffee houses, Bible studies, Prayer groups, Youth Groups, Worship services, My dad even refused to let me into his house on three separate occasions because he didnt want me "Leading his flock away." I think he was still grumpy from the time I boycotted christmas. He was so mad. Five years later he had to stop celebrating it because Of the one year I refused to go. It had divided the church down the center. But each time I was persecuted for teaching scripture. So I have stop careing awhile ago who I offend. I have a gift for teaching scriptures that no one wants me to teach. I am surprised my wife hasnt left me yet for how difficult it is to be married to me. It seems I alienate everybody I meet eventually. Pastor seems about one step away from booting me from this site. Did you know I got booted from another site. I guess I shouldnt bring that up It could get me booted again. Anyway thanks tiloc for you encouragement. It means alot to me.
 
By the way love the comic.
 
Six

Well, I'm always thrilled to be able to encourage someone.

Though I've had a wide variety of debates I've never had the hounour of being banished from a place. Well, I've been banned from Christianeese websites, but that's not saying much.

Dark people don't like public light. The best illustration of this in my life happened just this year, when the new camp manager of my camp had a grievance with me (I had called a board member incompetent, and I wasn't wrong, she was actually forced to resign at the end of the year for the same reason I called her that). He saw me heading to the washrooms one night when it was dark and waited outside untill I came out alone. He stood in my way and said gruffly, 'I need to talk with you.' I walked casually around him and replied 'Certinly, I'm going to the main grounds, please walk and talk with me.' He started to follow tennitively, I waved for him to come with me and he started to walk slowly. He stopped immediately when I got into the light of the main grounds and when I next turned back he was gone. Now, the main ground had people in it, I suspect that was enough to frighten him off of confronting me. It also had many of my people in it, people I had personally reached out to and talked with, the authority of his position (which he was so proud of) would not have bared the scrutiny of the support I had there. (He did not speak to or approach me again after that incident, and he has now resigned. Though he never kicked anyone out of the camp when I was there, after I left an astoundingly large number of people where kicked off the grounds or pressured off by him and his cohort board member)

Like I say, this is the best example in my life, but far from the only. I have heard several times 'oh well talk in my office so its not as embarrassing to you'. But those that did not shy away from following where the ones publicly embarrassed by the discussion. I'm sure you know when someone says they are afraid of you leading their sheep astray it's because the people are their sheep, not Gods. A leader (of a church or of any kind) should not be afraid of public discussion. The majority of pastors are.

My pastor is not, nor is my church, and there are occasional debates even during church. I haven't crossed the poly bridge yet, but I bide my time in every mater so I am most prepared both in knowledge and example.



Good Job about Christs'mass. I would LOVE a day set aside for worship and prayer with family, but that isn't Christsmass... I get sick of it, I'm always slightly depressed in Decembre. Gifts have to be the worst part. I'm an adult, I have my own money. I have perhaps four video games and a book I want per year that I want, if its a game I want (Harvest Moon, Tree of Tranquility this quarter, woot) I buy it and probably pre-order it. If its a book, I buy it. I'm not a stuff person and really don't want or need much in general. 80%+ of what I get for Christmas is annoying clutter that my wife wont let me throw out. If people would just by me Beef Jerky I would be happy, but for some reason people want to buy things that last. Giving gifts is annoying, getting them is a nightmare.

Alienating people is going to happen when you're firm to the truth, but there has to be a point where you can draw people and edify them as well. Wilderness time with little support is normal for a lot of determined truth seekers, but at some point community will happen to you. It's easy for me because my ability is to draw peoples abilities out, I need to teach, council, and lead to be myself in Christ and to grow. Obviously you don't have the same primary ability as I do, but there will be some point where you need community, and when that time comes God will put you in it.

If you must be a fighter (and you must) may I suggest applying you'reself to discernment? Sun Tzu said a good thing in this, 'know thy enemy and know thyself and victory is your'se'. Obviously you are natural with discernment of scriptures, and that is a major aspect of discernment of truth in general. If you don't already know (and I mean no offence if I'm saying something you know, I don't know what you know) you can grow that into a perception of intent. Diserning people, it's like looking down at you're cup of tea (or coffee, if you fancy) and letting you're opponents words wash over you, then breathing in and feeling their logos, not just what their saying but why their saying it. The intent of their heart, their core motivation. If you learn (or already know how) to do this effectively you can anticipate their arguments and get an idea of what counters will persuade or offend them. You can also see when someone is a stone or dog and talking with them is useless. But the best thing is when you see someone with sincere motivation, then you know to take them seriously and not to take you're disagreement litely. If you can't do it yet, applying you'reself to medditation, prayer, and practise until you can would be a great advantage.

Well, thats a longer post than I intended. If you want any discussions feel free to PM me, though don't be offended if I decline a topic, I generally won't discuss things I don't know enough to have a useful opinion on.

Talk to you later, glad you liked the comic,

Jair
 
Good Job about Christs'mass. I would LOVE a day set aside for worship and prayer with family, but that isn't Christsmass... I get sick of it, I'm always slightly depressed in Decembre.
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That day is coming up VERY soon, Jair! We are NOW in the midst of what is often called the "days of Awe" between the blowing of the shofar and the day of Atonement (at-one-ment with God; I've heard Yom Kippur taught as "the day God gives us our performance appraisal for the year past, and our goals for the year ahead").

I won't attempt a great amount of detail here or now, but rest assured that we are now in the period of the Biblical Fall feasts, and they include a number of very special days, set aside for worship, prayer, forgiveness, and repentance.

Even ignoring Jeremiah 10 and the pagan (Mithra, etc) origins of the "mass" which follows the winter solstice, there is simply no real evidence which suggests that Yeshua/Jesus was born then, and much which argues otherwise.

I am convinced (a web search will show details, or perhaps another forum thread at some point) that Yeshua was born during the fall feasts, almost certainly during the week of Tabernacles (aka "booths", also translated as 'manger' in the olde English. :o There are several other Scriptural indications which point to this as well, including the "course of Abijah" which identifies the time of John the Baptist's birth, followed by Yeshua's six months later.)

WorldNetDaily is now starting to sell books which seem to be on the right track:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76683

...although they use the "standard" (Rabbinic, Diaspora) calendar*, instead of the lunar one.

Many in the Messianic or "Hebrew roots" movement have produced excellent articles, sermons, DVD teachings, and seminars which examine the significance of the feasts in detail. As I wrote that last paragraph, I did a quick search here, and noticed that you joined the forum while the "Torah Keepers and the Sacred Name" thread was still somewhat active, so perhaps you have read some references here already - although I admit I have forgotten how much detail on Christmas specifically was in there. :D

Bottom line is that I still love Christmas carols, and moving away from our admittedly paganized traditions is not easy - so it is helpful to remember -- as WE build a sukka (or just camp out in the yard during Tabernacles :) ) -- that it is very educational to think about what our forefathers (whether we know we are of the branch, or thankful to be 'grafted in') have practiced for thousands of years. And it is even a greater blessing to know that it is a rehearsal for the wedding feast to come!



Blessings in Him,

Mark


--------------------------------
* Since the Day of Trumpets, or shouting (Yom Teruah) is the only Biblical Holy day which begins on a new moon (hence the ancient name which refers to it by the terminology "no man knows the day or the hour") and it sets the times for ALL of the following fall feasts, when the first sliver of that new moon in Jerusalem is sighted by "two or three witnesses", it is a time for shouting, joy, and blowing of shofars.

This year, that new moon came on the evening of October 1st, instead of two days earlier as the pre-published calendars stated. Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, thus begins according to the Biblical reckoning on Friday evening, the tenth, instead of the evening (erev) of the eighth.
 
You know, its kind of a different view but I'm not offended by the origins of Christmass. Everyones a son of Adam right? Everyones a Son of Noah. However cultures corrupted it, however people twisted it, however it was changed people still know something about God. Evangelism, in its proper sense, is going in Gods name and telling people what He did. People came to pagans, they belied the witness of the early evangelists, and they changed their life accordingly. Festivals, like the solstice, they once would have given to devils where given to God. Their culture, who they where maintained, but they knew more about what was right and acted on it. It seems fitting to me that the winter solstice should change to a celebration of the birth of Christ (Though it is certainly not his actual birthday).

Compare that to how evangelists worked since colonialism, they crush the people they're supposed to save. So many cultures have been systematically wiped out and assimilated, and thats wrong. They come with God's message, but they don't come as servants and messengers. They come with pride as if the fact that they knew something the others didn't gave them unlimited rights and there was nothing good at all in the people they where supposed to save.

I know this isn't how all missions where, and I know it isn't how they are, but this was a dominating culture since European colonialism.

I would be happy to celebrate the birth of Christ on the solstice, the universe is the lords and everything therein, and the solstice is an important phenomena He caused. What we do now celebrates him so little though...

Even though I would be happy to celebrate Christ on the solstice, or any day, I respect that God has an intricate reason for the festivals he set forth, and when the time comes I will study them in detail. My current course of study will lead me inevitably to them, and what I study inevitably changes my behaviour after I study it.

Yes, I read some of the Torah keepers secret name thread, though I only read about ten pages of it and seem to have missed the Christmas section. I've studied the origins of it earlier in my life though. I suppose what I'm saying about it is that it is something of a redeemed holiday, it became something else when it was given to God just as grafted branches like myself become something else when given to God. Christmas has just backslidded as a holiday now though.

As a small irony, my birthday is coming up in just a few days, and each year as it comes up a similar thing happens to me. I review the year in prayer and listen to what God has to say about it, and set goals for the year ahead. A blessed co-incidence I suppose. But as my birthday is Gregorian and Yom Kippur is Jewish the timing of my meditation would float compared to actual Yom Kippur.

Evidence for the actual timing of Christs birth is interesting, but I don't have time to consider it carefully right now. The brief evidence you gave is quite compelling.

Good talkin to you, blessings,
Jair
 
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