General The more i think about this article the more irritating it is...

[Asforme&myhouse]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ch...abiting-couples-the-gospel-is-redemptive.html


“On Sunday, Carter preached on cohabitation and presented each cohabiting couple with three biblically-based suggestions: to start the process of getting married, to move to separate spaces but continue to date, or to break up.“

Biblically-based suggestions? BIBLICALLY-BASED SUGGESTIONS??!!! How do you figure, sir??

They are already one flesh! You are separating what God has joined together, good grief man!

I feel like we are in the twilight zone... is everyone just blind??

Ok breathe, it’s just a dream... wait, no, this is our reality!

Ok rant over... i feel better now

 

[FollowingHim]

It's well meaning, and they are doing a good work overall, because they are taking these couples who are already together and getting them to a place where they see they are married and thus all scripture relating to marriage relates to them. So it will bear positive fruit.

But there are many details as to why and how they are approaching it that are irritating, I agree.

 

[frederick]

Fair rant.

 

[PeteR]

Ok breathe, it’s just a dream... wait, no, this is our reality!

This is my reaction to so many teachers and teachings today.

A brother forwarded an email to me last night by a 'teacher' that very nearly gave me a conniption. It was so 'off the reservation' that it literally took my breath away.

Unfortunately, I think most 'Bible teachers/preachers' know better but are afraid of upsetting someone.

 

[frederick]

The more I've thought about this action by that church the more I'm wondering if, at least in part, it might be a reaction to the easy come easy go attitude to hooking up(?) People move from one live-in situation to the next when things get a little difficult. Could it be partly due to trying to get more of the church people into a committed relationship situation; to tie the knot and have more reason to make it work? I know they said some people can't afford the wedding but, from what's written in the article, that's just because they go stupid on stuff they don't need. Or is there something I missed in my Bible about having to waste the money God gives on stupid stuff for weddings? Maybe some good financial counseling would go a long way to helping get the problems sorted. Ok, that's my addition to the rant. Peace and warm fuzzies.

 

[steve]

Unfortunately, I think most 'Bible teachers/preachers' know better but are afraid of upsetting someone.

For those that have made it to the “professional” level, their future income depends on people that agree with them.

 

[rockfox]

to move to separate spaces but continue to date

"You're breaking the delusion. You can continue f*cking, just so long as you live in separate places so we can pretend it's not going on."

This is the same game American christians play with their son's and daughters all the time. Pretending the very obvious fornication isn't going on. No good fruit comes of this. It's merely the appearance of righteousness without the substance.

Well, that would be my answer in the usual American church, but a look at that article showed there is a little more nuance to the situation...

I know they said some people can't afford the wedding but, from what's written in the article, that's just because they go stupid on stuff they don't need. Or is there something I missed in my Bible about having to waste the money God gives on stupid stuff for weddings?

Normally I'd agree with this, but from the photo's it's a black congregation. Marriage formation has absolutely tanked in that community and it is destroying them. And co-habs aren't treated as lifelong commitments. Going to extraordinary lengths (such as in this case paying all the wedding costs and even their rent) to get people to make lifelong commitments is very likely a wise investment. It's an offer they extend to co-hab couples every 3 years.

In other words it's not that they're breaking up one flesh relationships or wasting money on paperwork. What they're doing is putting these relationships to the test to see if they are real and helping them build long term committed relationships (instead of transitory co-hab).

While they are a 9000 member mega-church, they are not just big box Christianity. About a fifth of their congregation are new believers. That's an unusually and extremely high level. And they've come up with an outside the box solution to the biggest problem facing the entire church today (the destruction of marriage). Most American churches today are still in denial that there is even a problem; much less that they should do something beside blaim the young people, much less take it upon themselves to come up with a unique solution.

 

[FollowingHim]

Going to extraordinary lengths (such as in this case paying all the wedding costs and even their rent) to get people to make lifelong commitments is very likely a wise investment.

Completely agree. This is a good work, even if we'd do it slightly differently.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

"You're breaking the delusion. You can continue f*cking, just so long as you live in separate places so we can pretend it's not going on."

This is the same game American christians play with their son's and daughters all the time. Pretending the very obvious fornication isn't going on. No good fruit comes of this. It's merely the appearance of righteousness without the substance.

Well, that would be my answer in the usual American church, but a look at that article showed there is a little more nuance to the situation...



Normally I'd agree with this, but from the photo's it's a black congregation. Marriage formation has absolutely tanked in that community and it is destroying them. And co-habs aren't treated as lifelong commitments. Going to extraordinary lengths (such as in this case paying all the wedding costs and even their rent) to get people to make lifelong commitments is very likely a wise investment. It's an offer they extend to co-hab couples every 3 years.

In other words it's not that they're breaking up one flesh relationships or wasting money on paperwork. What they're doing is putting these relationships to the test to see if they are real and helping them build long term committed relationships (instead of transitory co-hab).

While they are a 9000 member mega-church, they are not just big box Christianity. About a fifth of their congregation are new believers. That's an unusually and extremely high level. And they've come up with an outside the box solution to the biggest problem facing the entire church today (the destruction of marriage). Most American churches today are still in denial that there is even a problem; much less that they should do something beside blaim the young people, much less take it upon themselves to come up with a unique solution.

I get what you’re saying. I guess the thing that bothers me is that, the church doesn’t exist to be involved in marriage aside from calling people to repent of sexual sin and teach what Scripture says concerning marriage. Both of these things are absent, or at least they are not being taught accurately which is essentially the same thing. The church is the church, it doesn’t matter the color of their skin. Christ’s instructions to His people are the same to all nations, tribes, and languages. They are not going to fix the problems of the lack of marriage and family among black people by teaching them things that are false. Doing that will only perpetuate the problem. We decry what the churches we came from are teaching about sex and marriage, because they are destructive to marriage and family, but those teachings are a good thing in a black church?

 

[Verifyveritas76]

I’d agree that they are doing things differently than what I’d see as textbook approach to marriage, however, I don’t believe that their level of understanding on biblical marriage and its intricacies are as complete as some of ours.

That being said, I believe that they are seriously trying to impact their circle of influence and their community to the best of their knowledge and the sacrifice of their pocketbook. To the tune of $480 K since 2009.

I can think of much worse uses for their time and money. Anybody else know of any other ministry thats converting cohabitations into marriages in this day and age? 60 since 2009? Most of em Im aware of are so interested in condemning from a soap box that they’ll never be able to wrap their minds around the practical aspect of helping these young people move from a position of eventual sin (when they eventually part ways) to a position of covered sin. Even if they could wrap their minds around the idea, they usually manage to alienate the couple so far that they’ll never be able to influence them.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

I’d agree that they are doing things differently than what I’d see as textbook approach to marriage, however, I don’t believe that their level of understanding on biblical marriage and its intricacies are as complete as some of ours.

That being said, I believe that they are seriously trying to impact their circle of influence and their community to the best of their knowledge and the sacrifice of their pocketbook. To the tune of $480 K since 2009.

I can think of much worse uses for their time and money. Anybody else know of any other ministry thats converting cohabitations into marriages in this day and age? 60 since 2009? Most of em Im aware of are so interested in condemning from a soap box that they’ll never be able to wrap their minds around the practical aspect of helping these young people move from a position of eventual sin (when they eventually part ways) to a position of covered sin. Even if they could wrap their minds around the idea, they usually manage to alienate the couple so far that they’ll never be able to influence them.

Just seems like there are better, far less expensive, far more biblical ways to convert cohabs into marriages. Say like, “ that woman you’re living with and sleeping with, she’s your wife and she belongs to you, and you are responsible before God to keep her and lead her and never put her away”.

I guess I just don’t see marriage licenses wedding dresses, tuxedos, and flowers actually holding any of them together anymore than they hold any other marriage together in our society.

If they called themselves a social club I wouldn’t really be concerned with what they are doing, but they call themselves a church. Churches have specific instructions on what their mission is and putting on pageantry while ignoring the words of scripture is just, well, wrong.

I get what you’re saying, but if these guys get a pass why don’t other churches?

 

[steve]

Just seems like there are better, far less expensive, far more biblical ways to convert cohabs into marriages. Say like, “ that woman you’re living with and sleeping with, she’s your wife and she belongs to you, and you are responsible before God to keep her and lead her and never put her away”.

I agree with you, but what is the point of judging them and complaining about them? That’s the job of the evil one.
They feel like they are actually accomplishing something, and maybe in a few cases they are.
Could we judge them on what they are spending that could be used elsewhere? For sure.
Could we judge any church on how they spend their budget? Of course, the list is unending.

 

[FollowingHim]

Just seems like there are better, far less expensive, far more biblical ways to convert cohabs into marriages. Say like, “ that woman you’re living with and sleeping with, she’s your wife and she belongs to you, and you are responsible before God to keep her and lead her and never put her away”.

I guess I just don’t see marriage licenses wedding dresses, tuxedos, and flowers actually holding any of them together anymore than they hold any other marriage together in our society.

The wedding is a very powerful symbol. It is deeply meaningful to almost everybody in our society. Now, those of us who have 'taken the red pill' as it were increasingly see through it on a logical basis - nevertheless even we would acknowledge the emotional significance of such an event, especially for a wife.

A preacher can say "she's your wife", and they can go home and believe this or not.

But if they go and have a full-blown ceremony that they've always, all their life, associated with becoming man and wife, then it is absolutely clear to them that they are. The marriage licence is part of that. After this, they will not only know in their heads, but also feel in their hearts, that they are married.

Also, the wedding forces them to actually come to grips with the situation and personally decide to actually be together for life. The preacher can say "you're married" and they might disagree and ignore him. But if they listen, ponder it carefully, and decide "yes, I'm actually going to vow to be committed", then they'll take it to heart and truly do that.

@Asforme&myhouse, you are looking at this from a position of cold logic, and are correct from that perspective. But there is far more to life than cold logic - especially when women are involved.

 

[Everett Mendiola 3rd.]

It Simply Is (Acting/Attempting To Help Remedy The Situation/ When Most Are (Biblically Condemning) The Situation...

It Is Written :
(Judgement Starts In The House Of Yah)
So I For One Can Appreciate The Steps
Taken ...

 

[steve]

It Simply Is (Acting/Attempting To Help Remedy The Situation/ When Most Are (Biblically Condemning) The Situation...

It Is Written :
(Judgement Starts In The House Of Yah)
So I For One Can Appreciate The Steps
Taken ...

That actually made some sense
Please let me be the first to offer my congratulations.

 

[Everett Mendiola 3rd.]

That actually made some sense
Please let me be the first to offer my congratulations.

(Was Not The Assessment Of The Article
In Question Self Evident) ?

 

[rockfox]

I’d agree that they are doing things differently than what I’d see as textbook approach to marriage, however, I don’t believe that their level of understanding on biblical marriage and its intricacies are as complete as some of ours.

That being said, I believe that they are seriously trying to impact their circle of influence and their community to the best of their knowledge and the sacrifice of their pocketbook. To the tune of $480 K since 2009.

I can think of much worse uses for their time and money. Anybody else know of any other ministry thats converting cohabitations into marriages in this day and age? 60 since 2009? Most of em Im aware of are so interested in condemning from a soap box that they’ll never be able to wrap their minds around the practical aspect of helping these young people move from a position of eventual sin (when they eventually part ways) to a position of covered sin. Even if they could wrap their minds around the idea, they usually manage to alienate the couple so far that they’ll never be able to influence them.

Yep, they're putting their funds to better use than most churches of their size. Maybe their theology isn't spot on, but they're doing a good work that really matters.

I guess I just don’t see marriage licenses wedding dresses, tuxedos, and flowers actually holding any of them together anymore than they hold any other marriage together in our society.

But it is part of the package that they are using to get co-habs to ride or get off the horse. There are lot and lots of couples who are living together and 'engaged' or 'planning to get married someday' but which have no real commitment. It's just lies one party or the other tell's to put off the day of reckoning.

Their community is in a 5 alarm fire situation. Additional measures are warranted. Christians have been condemning co-hab for some time to little effect.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

But it is part of the package that they are using to get co-habs to ride or get off the horse. There are lot and lots of couples who are living together and 'engaged' or 'planning to get married someday' but which have no real commitment. It's just lies one party or the other tell's to put off the day of reckoning.

Their community is in a 5 alarm fire situation. Additional measures are warranted. Christians have been condemning co-hab for some time to little effect.

Yeah yeah yeah, everybody else beat ya to it.