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The great porn debate

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Revgill87123

Revgill87123

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So the other day I was sitting with a group of people from different churches. The topic of pornography came up. I was tell people why I think porn was morally and biblically wrong. I also told them that if was them their wives or daughters what would they think? The response I got from a majority of them kind of shocked me. I was told by many of them they do not see a problem morally or biblically with watching porn as long as they are with their spouse. I brought up the fact that porn as well as watching porn was breaking many biblical laws. They had seemed to disagree greatly with me. I will not allow that filth in my home, but it got me wandering though what every ones views were on the subject as well as why. Do you or do you not agree with pornography as being ok to view?
 
The title surprised me, I can understand some people trying to debate it, but I'm surprised its great. Porneos=Fornication, porn comes from the concept of porneos. Pretty easy there.

I can understand debates concerning degree, I.E. is made up erotic literature alright, but when it comes to watching actual strangers do actual things I didn't think there was so much as a millimeter available for debate.
 
The issue here has not so much to do with the eyes and what is visibly seen as it does with what is going on in the heart.

Some think movies and tv or internet shows that show nudity is automatically sinful for the person watching it. That would not square with Christ's teaching that it is not what goes into the body but what comes out of the heart that defiles a person (see Matthew 15 I think). But keep reading as there is more to this issue than just this point.

Furthermore, if nudity were just in and of itself a sin to see then every medical doctor working on the opposite sex would be in trouble. Police officers who enter homes, strip clubs, and other plkaces to make arrests and see nudity in the process would also be in serious trouble with Christ. We have to steer clear of gnosticism (the body is evil) and asceticism (sensual pleasure or pleasure to the eye itself is evil; See the end of Col. 2 where Paul speaks of this issue).

There are two issues going on here that get blurred together so many times that it makes the discussion complex when it does not have to be. There is the sender of the message and the receiver of the message. In other words, the senders of the message can be doing something totally sinful, wicked, and defiled before God yet the one seeing it may not be automatically in sin. If this distinction is not kept then even God himself, who sees all and knows all, would be in trouble as well. Since God is omnipresent he is seeing and around every vile act in the entire universe. But he is pure, holy, and without sin because though he sees all he does not enjoy or embrace or condone the sin. His mind/heart remains pure and separate.

However, if someone enjoys, likes, takes pleasure in watching sinful acts take place then that person is indeed in sin. No saint would enjoy watching sin because sin conflicts with the new nature. So a saint would not enjoy watching adultery take place, he or she would not enjoy watching immoral unions and sex acts that defile God's purpose. It would be sin for someone to enjoy watching such things. It would be no different than watching a real murder take place and getting enjoyment out of that.

Also, most shows or porn shows trample on the sacredness of sexuality. When we read Song of Songs we see that God used metaphors to describe the sacred acts of the couple, and thus he shows us that when presenting, talking, or writing about sexuality we ought to use at least a form of discreetness if at all possible. Our words should reflect proper language ethics. For example, we should not use slang terms to describe anatomy. We should use either metaphors at at the minumum proper biological terms.

Furthermore, the more one watches those types of sinful images the more it can alter the neurons and electronic patterns of the brain. A man can actually see so much of nudity that his senses become numb and thus he begins not to be aroused when around his own mate. That is the physiological numbness that happens when one is addicted to porn shows and immoral images. It is like a drug, the more used the higher of a tolerance builds up in the system so that more has to be taken to have the same effect.

So in short, it is sinful for the messengers to do sinful acts. As for the receivers it depends on how they are receiving the message. If they stumble upon it then it is not automatically sin. But if they are watching actual sin take place and enjoying that sin then there heart has embraced sin. Nudity in and of itself, even seen nudity (such as in professional jobs like medicine, police work, etc) it not sin just because the eyes see it. What makes it sin is how the heart processes that information when seen.

In your illustration if a couple is watching sinful acts take place and getting enjoyment from the sinful images then that certainly is sin.
 
Nudity is not sin in and of itself. I am a born again saint and I find it a little funny that proffessing Christians have no problems with watching movies that blaspheme the holy name of our Lord yet they have a problem with people being sexual in a film. For me a film which shows the name of our Lord being taken in vain is more evil than porn. Those people who judge other Christians because they watch porn yet they watch evil cecular stuff on tv are hypocrites in my opinion. There is loads of stuff on tv that's evil, but with professing Christians it seems porn is the most evil. A person who watches porn can't be saved, (apparently). Yet one who watches witchcraft in harry potter can be saved. Talk about double standards.
I personally believe its upto the conscience actually. Porn, harry potter, reality shows, whatever. The same arguments you have against porn are the same I have against harry potter. I hate it. Yet many Christians I know love harry potter and see nothing evil about it. If you can't watch porn fair enough, but going around calling all who watch it lost is very judgemental. I could say the same about everyone who watches harry potter. I don't do that, coz I know its god who looks at the heart. I do believe there is some porn which is watchable. And yes I am saved, washed by the precious blood of my saviour. God will judge me on that day, he knows my heart.
 
I agree with you 100% I have tv but not cable. The only channels we have here are all Christian or spanish, but I don't speak spanish so no go there. We have movies, but mainly educational for my children cause we home school. I was wandering more so about porn cause that was our discussion today. I do however agree with you 100% as far as what the world watches.
fadi said:
Nudity is not sin in and of itself. I am a born again saint and I find it a little funny that proffessing Christians have no problems with watching movies that blaspheme the holy name of our Lord yet they have a problem with people being sexual in a film. For me a film which shows the name of our Lord being taken in vain is more evil than porn. Those people who judge other Christians because they watch porn yet they watch evil cecular stuff on tv are hypocrites in my opinion. There is loads of stuff on tv that's evil, but with professing Christians it seems porn is the most evil. A person who watches porn can't be saved, (apparently). Yet one who watches witchcraft in harry potter can be saved. Talk about double standards.
I personally believe its upto the conscience actually. Porn, harry potter, reality shows, whatever. The same arguments you have against porn are the same I have against harry potter. I hate it. Yet many Christians I know love harry potter and see nothing evil about it. If you can't watch porn fair enough, but going around calling all who watch it lost is very judgemental. I could say the same about everyone who watches harry potter. I don't do that, coz I know its god who looks at the heart. I do believe there is some porn which is watchable. And yes I am saved, washed by the precious blood of my saviour. God will judge me on that day, he knows my heart.
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Interesting, the issue never was weather being nude was sinful in and of itself. It seems a strwaman argument has been soundly defeated...

It seems a great deal of effort has been made to muddle the issue, if it can be classified as pornia it is sin and Galations needs to be heeded carefully:
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication (Pornia), uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


The debate is and can only be a matter of degree, what exactly constitutes porn? It can't be weather porn is alright or not. So far no one has said porn is nudity in and of itself, and no one would reasonably say that it is. Fornication is acts of harlotry (are they paid to do this? Are they unmarried?) adultery, covetous (so if they are married then don't watch), or idolatry. There isn't really any useful wiggle room here in the case of watching actual people have actual sex. If there is going to be debate its going to have to go into the abstract realms of literature and imagination, erotic materials of that nature are abundant and I would would opine not necessarily objectionable, and unless you've already been warped by too much porn they should be more than enough for stimulation. In fact they may be much better stimulation on many levels.

When the Bible clearly judges is duty to let people know. If you want to make a stance against Harry Potter and see people who enjoy it as sinful that in no way justifies you engaging in another sin. So the question is do you mean you believe some things people call porn are not pornographic but merely erotic in nature or do you mean some things that are pornographic are not sin? If by porn you just mean erotic then I agree, it can be good, if by porn you mean porn then we are a stark disagreement.
 
I lost my post so I'm doing it again here. I was in a hurry in the earlier one.

Once while in an ethics course for my Ph.D we had to debate several issues surrounding this. Here is a scenario.

Suppose Christian xyz company wants to make a movie about the life of King David. In the script they have the adultery scene, but the actors (a male and female) kiss one another and the image leads us to believe they engage in sex. The question was then: "Did they, the movie company, sin by doing this scene and did the actors sin by their roles?"

In my answer I originally got it wrong because I said they did indeed sin because a married man and a married woman, who were not married to each other, should not be kissing each other like that even if in a movie. But then I got the details that actually the two were married to each other but were acting as if they were not. The company specifically chose a married couple so they would avoid sin in the act of kissing.

Moral of the story?

It is important to understand the difference of what is real and what is acting.

In ponographic movies, films, etc the people are really carrying out there actions upon one another and in sinful ways. John Doe really does have sex with Heather Lucy (whatever names they have) and they are both married to other people in real life. This is sinful and terribly wrong.

In some cases, a person's conscience does rule. Most of the times this in cases where the acting in the movie hurts the conscience of a person. One person may be able to see a fight scene being acted out without wanting to go and fight another person. Mercy, even in Andy Griffith we have some fights and even a town drunk. But not everyone is mature enough or with freedom of conscience to even see that. Thus, if it is sin to that person to even see the fight scene or town drunk then he or she should refrain from watching the film/show (Rom. 14).

Hopefully this does not muddy the waters any but helps to make the careful lines clear. If a show is meant to glorify sin then it is sinful and unholy. The one who enjoys that type of show or film is wrong and in sin. We cannot enjoy, like, or desire sin (whether in real life or in acting). But, we must also keep in mind that just seeing something with our eye may not automatically make it sin for us. Enjoyment in something and seeing something is not always the same.

Here is a real life example that may help illustrate the point. Father XYZ gets a call that his daughter is in a strip club bar underage. He gets in his car and drives down to the bar. He walks in, sees his daughter, as well as the nude girls running around and on the poll dancing, and he walks over to his daughter and tells her she must leave. They walk out together. What was actually going on in the club was sinful and unholy but him just seeing it did not necessarily mean he was in sin. If he did NOT desire anything sinful then he was holy and right for doing what he did, even if he had to go into a place where sin was flaunted.

The key to this subject is always the matter of the heart. We as Christians should never like, enjoy, participate, or agree with any sin (in real life, on movies or shows, in books, or any sinful story that the bible portrays to show us how wrong it is). If at anytime we find ourselves liking, desiring, wanting, or enjoying something that is sinful then we have embraced sin in our own heart and life.

Those people who like watching pornography, or enjoy seeing any type of sin are not right in their own heart.

Dr. Allen
 
I personally think this could be a grey area and its not as black and white as most Christians suppose. All sexual sins are clearly outlined in scriptures. Watching nude people be sexual is not one of them. Songs of Solomon is a perfect picture of Christ and his church, but its also an erotic love story, for everyone to read. If it was made into a film, would songs of Solomon be sin to watch. I used to be very negetive about sex, until god freed me from such lies. People have become like the pharisees in a way, trying to make more rules to protect the rules that already exist. King David had 10 concubines, a lot of people today would say that's sick, but god dint. He probably went into them at the same time, it makes more sense to me, I could be wrong, but I suppose he did. that's probably why there is no law agaisnt female lying with female. A lot of Christians are disgusted by that thought. Yet scripture is rather silent on that issue. All I am saying is not all porn is evil as many of us think. I have spent time studying on sex and the bible and was shocked to learn that a lot of things I was told are sins are not even sin ie masterbation. I am not going to go into details describing which form is better, but I have found a lot of materials helfpful for me and my husband and we have been blessed by it.
 
fadi said:
All I am saying is not all porn is evil as many of us think
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Oh yes it is !
I'm a female, so maybe it's different for us. I know it's different for me. Pornography isn't about sex. No...sex was created by God; therefore, sex is a good thing. Pornography is about commerce. It's a billion dollar business run by people who only care about making money. They use sexual acts as the bait to lure people into supporting the porn industry with their money. Anyone who buys, rents or watches pornography is supporting the porn industry and helping it survive and grow. Pornography routinely exploits women and young girls. Many of these females do these films for the money. How many of you men would be okay with your daughters going into the porn business ? Every one of those girls is someone's daughter !

I don't like cliches, but WWJD ? Does anyone really believe that Jesus would approve of any form of pornography ? I'm sorry, but I can't see Him kicking back with the disciples and watching an X-rated movie ! And FTR, "The Song Of Solomon" is not pornography. It is a tastefully worded, romantic account of Solomon's love for one of his wives.
Blessings,
Fairlight
 
I don't approve of Hollywood films, nearly all of them, as they take the name of Christ on vain, it upsets me. But at times I do watch films. I don't think the lord would approve even of Disney films, Ice age teaches evolution, yet its packaged as innocent. There is something wrong with nearly everything on tv if you dig deeper. I used to be very legalistic and judgemental and I judged Christians on what they watch on tv. I don't know why God convicts others on certain things yet others he doesn't. I personally don't understand a lot of things, but I know god has searched me and tried me on this issue, and I am accountable to him. I love the Lord and he has not convicted me on some materials I read and watch. I love reading erotic stuff, that's just me. And contray to popular belief I don't think I am going to bell for that. I am a new creature in Christ. I recieve all with thanksgiving without asking if the it has been offered to idols, I just eat , if you ask too much where all meat comes from I am afraid you will never eat. It's what goes out of me that defiles me. Hey I know ya'll think I am crazy but I know whom I believe. I actually counsel females on sex issues, it's something.I personally feel Christians don't dare discuss but there is a huge need for it. Anyway I have to say I strongly disagree with some posts here, I am very open minded and I seem to hear more from god when I put my preconcieved ideas aside. That's how I got a shock of my life when I learnt polygamy is no sin, after years of being programed by the world that's its evil. I have said enough, LOL gotta go
 
As for the Song of Songs, yes it is very erotic. It is a real love story about a real man and a real woman.

But take notice to how the book was written. The words used in this are discreet, not crass and flagrant.

So, if a movie were made on this love story it could not describe or show the sex acts in detail because sexuality is a private, discreet, honorable love between the people.

I hate to do this but maybe I can write two sentences here and show the difference of what I am talking about. See if this does not make a difference in what is experienced. Here are two ways in which people talk about sex. One is biblical and honorable and one is crass, sinful, and ungodly.

Biblical way: "Jerry and Sally married one another back 10 years ago. This weekend they have loved one another with a deep passion as they have rekindled their love for one another through a deeper dedication to Christ. Jerry held Sally in his arms, caressed her body, and tenderly touched her as he worked his way towards his garden and gathered his spices from his honeycomb. The two were so fatigued as they made love for hours with one another." (This is exactly some of the language used in Song of Songs).

A Crass Ungodly way to tell the same story: "Jerry and Sally screwed one another in marriage for the first time back 10 years ago. This weekend they f**** one another and bounced all over the room in hot sex. Jerry held Sally in his arms and rubbed her legs, a**, breasts, and "p******. He worked his way to her p***** and ******* her and then ******** all over her. They were so d***** tired after f***** one another for hours." (In many places this would not even be crass enough to the tell the story, but it would be worse and full or more ungodly language).

The ***** words can be filled in by your imagination (profanity that I would not say or write). The second type of language is the way the porn industry portrays sex. It is not holy, honorable, or discreet with metaphors as we see in the Song of Songs.

If a movie were made about the Song of Songs in a holy way there would not be graphic visual seens where the actual sex acts would be seen because the way God shows us the sex acts in the Song of Songs is through a veiled form of language, metaphors. That is why overt, publicly portrayed sex acts are not holy and right. It violates the discreet, personal, private nature of sexuality. Which is why in most places it is illegal to have sexual relations in public. The natural law of the conscience shows us that sexuality is a discreet private issue, and the patterns of describing sex in the Bible also show us that sexuality is to be a private matter that is not crass, graphic, or to be exploited.

Therefore, when the entertainment industry shows pornographic films they are in violation of several biblical laws: discreetness, and the many laws of sexual immorality where many of the people are in adultery or other sexual sin, and they are degrading the sacredness of sex.

That does not mean films and shows about sex cannot be done in a holy way. It would be possible to make a movie about the Song of Songs. If the sex acts were really acted out in the movie then the people involved would have to really be married to one another. Furthermore, the scenes would have to have some type of veil to where one would not see everything but could understand what was happening without being to crass, flagrant, and open. That would honor the law of discreetness we find in the actuall book of Song of Songs.

Dr. Allen
 
Blessings everyone! Thought I would step in here and post some thoughts on this.

By far, the most searched for terms on the internet are related to pornography. Pornography is rampant in the world today. Perhaps more than anything else, Satan has succeeded in twisting and perverting sex. He has taken what is good and right (loving sex between a husband and wife) and replaced it with lust, pornography, adultery, rape, and homosexuality. Pornography can be the first step on a very slippery slope of ever-increasing wickedness and immorality (Romans 6:19). The addictive nature of pornography is well documented. Just as a drug user must consume greater and more powerful quantities of drugs to achieve the same “high,” pornography drags a person deeper and deeper into hard-core sexual addictions and ungodly desires.

Studies show that terms relating to porn are by far the most commonly searched-for terms in the internet search engines. Every day, literally millions of people do searches related to the porn industry. The powerful imagery of internet pornography is highly addictive. Many men (and women) have been caught in the snare of internet porn and find themselves helplessly addicted to its visual stimulation. This results in uncontrollable lust, an inability to experience true sexual intimacy in marriage, and often intense feelings of guilt and despair. Pornography is the #1 cause of sexual assault, and sexual deviancy. Most importantly, pornography is offensive to God, and is therefore a sin that must be confessed, repented of, and overcome.

There are two primary aspects in the battle to overcome an addiction to porn: spiritual and practical. Spiritually, addiction to pornography is a sin that God desires you to overcome and therefore will enable you to do so. The first step is to make sure you have genuinely placed your trust in Jesus Christ as your Savior. Without salvation through Jesus Christ, there is no possibility of a true and lasting victory over pornography: “Apart from me, you can do nothing” (John 15:5).

If you are a believer in Christ and are struggling with an addiction to porn, there is hope and help for you! The power of the Holy Spirit is available to you (Ephesians 3:16). The cleansing of God’s forgiveness is available to you (1 John 1:9). The renewing capacity of God’s Word is at your disposal (Romans 12:1-2). Commit your mind and eyes to the Lord (1 John 2:16). Ask God to strengthen you and help you to overcome pornography (Philippians 4:13). Ask God to protect you from further exposure to porn (1 Corinthians 10:13), and to fill your mind with things that are pleasing to Him (Philippians 4:8). These are all requests that God will honor and answer.

Practically speaking, there are numerous tools to combat an addiction to pornography. There is a great program available at http://www.PureOnline.com. There are several quality internet filtering programs that will completely block your computer from accessing pornography, such as http://www.BSafeOnline.com. Another fantastic tool is available at http://www.X3Watch.com. X3watch is accountability software. It tracks your internet browsing and sends a report of any objectionable websites you have visited to an accountability partner of your choosing. Your temptation to view internet porn would be greatly reduced if you knew your youth pastor, parent, friend, pastor, or spouse would receive a detailed report about it. There are also quite a few good books on overcoming porn addiction: Every Man's Battle: Winning the War on Sexual Purity One Victory at a Time by Stephen Arterburn, Pure Freedom: Breaking the Addiction to Pornography by Mike Cleveland, and The Game Plan by Joe Dallas.

Do not despair! An addiction to porn is not an “unforgivable sin.” God can and will forgive you. An addiction to porn is not an “unconquerable sin.” God can and will enable you to overcome it. Commit your mind and eyes to the Lord. Commit yourself to filling your mind with God’s Word (Psalm 119:11). Seek His help daily in prayer; ask Him to fill your mind with His truth and block unwanted thoughts and desires. Take the practical steps listed above to keep yourself accountable and block access to porn. “Now to Him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to His power that is at work within us” (Ephesians 3:20).

The three main categories of sin are the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life (1 John 2:16). Pornography definitely causes us to lust after flesh, and it is undeniably a lust of the eyes. Pornography definitely does not qualify as one of the things we are to think about, according to Philippians 4:8. Pornography is addictive (1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19), and destructive (Proverbs 6:25-28; Ezekiel 20:30; Ephesians 4:19). Lusting after other people in our minds, which is the essence of pornography, is offensive to God (Matthew 5:28). When habitual devotion to pornography characterizes a person’s life, it demonstrates the person is not saved (1 Corinthians 6:9).

For those involved in pornography, God can and will give the victory. Are you involved with pornography and desire freedom from it? Here are some steps to victory:
1) Confess your sin to God (1 John 1:9).
2) Ask God to cleanse, renew, and transform your mind (Romans 12:2).
3) Ask God to fill your mind with Philippians 4:8.
4) Learn to possess your body in holiness (1 Thessalonians 4:3-4).
5) Understand the proper meaning of sex and rely on your spouse alone to meet that need (1 Corinthians 7:1-5).
6) Realize that if you walk in the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5:16).
7) Take practical steps to reduce your exposure to graphic images. Install pornography blockers on your computer, limit television and video usage, and find another Christian who will pray for you and help keep you accountable.

Koinonia and Maranatha!
 
I don't know if there there is as much disagreement here as there appears to be,

Fadi, no one here in this thread has yet condemned erotic marital on the whole, but pornography as it appears on the internet or at an adult store clearly falls into the category of fornication and even takes its name from it. It is exceedingly clear in scripture fornication's of all types are condemned as sin.

So the question is what material of an erotic nature is unacceptable to you? Perhaps if we knew that we could discuss specifics instead of generalities.

If you watch unmarried people have sex its fornication, if you watch people who are being paid to have sex its harlotry and thus fornication, and if you watch a married couple have sex its adulterous fornication, unless you where to make your own and keep it between your husband and wives there is not much that can avoid the classification of fornication now is there?

But I do and have agreed that a lot of erotic material does not have those problems. Erotic literature may be acceptable (depending on its other content) and I've gone so far to write some so my wife knows its good and what she likes. Even something like an illustrated kama sutra would be fine, there are no actual people committing sins or to sin against, though the material itself may be totally explicit. Its when we get into watching actual people have actual sex that we start hitting the definition of fornication from multiple angles.

About movies I generally but not totally agree, and wouldn't mind discussing it more in another thread, but the topic crater has already had to ask once to stay on topic, so it would be rude to elaborate on that more here and now.
 
Just to throw in my two cents worth after reading the posts so far. It seems everyone agrees that that those engaged in making pornographic movies, etc. (let's define porn as erotic acts being filmed for the purpose of arousing the viewer) are committing fornication and are in sin. In my mind, those viewing it for arousal are also sinning because by doing so, they are implicitly condoning those sinful acts. The passage from Romans below addresses the point directly.

Romans 1:28:32 (New King James Version)
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. (italics mine)
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Dave
 
My 2 coppers on the topic of porn...

1) From the stance of the bible alone, porn is (and encourages) sin. At the most basic level it is video proof of fornication, which is prohibited in the bible. On a deeper and not always obvious (at least not to the couple watching together) level; porn causes the viewer to sin in his/her heart.
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matt 5:28

2) A person's moral compass is often shaped by the people who raised them, or those that they spent most of their time with prior to devoting their lives to GOD. Because of such, many will be more accepting of "worldly things" until they have learn to follow the new moral compass which is give to them by GOD. If the person in question surrounds them-self with people of the world &/or neglects their devotion to (nurturing of the relationship with) GOD; then they wind up following the compass they are familiar with, instead of learning how to read/follow the new one provided by GOD.

3)We as Christians are to let Christ be our example in all things. This includes topics such as porn, which are very difficult from a mortal perspective. Yet it is imperative that we (or another we know to be more capable, such as a pastor or lay-leader) take time to commune with the people who engage in the sin. It is only by accepting them as they are and revealing the truth in a loving/guiding (not condemning) manner, that the person will gradually choose to spend more time in front of GOD with their intimate desires than in front of any form of porn.
"And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Mark 2:15-17
 
Genesis 38:9 I believe speaks against masterbation. (Better to spill your seed in the belly of a whore then to spill your seed on the ground)
fadi said:
I personally think this could be a grey area and its not as black and white as most Christians suppose. All sexual sins are clearly outlined in scriptures. Watching nude people be sexual is not one of them. Songs of Solomon is a perfect picture of Christ and his church, but its also an erotic love story, for everyone to read. If it was made into a film, would songs of Solomon be sin to watch. I used to be very negetive about sex, until god freed me from such lies. People have become like the pharisees in a way, trying to make more rules to protect the rules that already exist. King David had 10 concubines, a lot of people today would say that's sick, but god dint. He probably went into them at the same time, it makes more sense to me, I could be wrong, but I suppose he did. that's probably why there is no law agaisnt female lying with female. A lot of Christians are disgusted by that thought. Yet scripture is rather silent on that issue. All I am saying is not all porn is evil as many of us think. I have spent time studying on sex and the bible and was shocked to learn that a lot of things I was told are sins are not even sin ie masterbation. I am not going to go into details describing which form is better, but I have found a lot of materials helfpful for me and my husband and we have been blessed by it.
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Just because you do not feel convicted that some thing isn't wrong doesn't mean it isn't. There are so called Christian cults who marry and have sex with girls no older then 10 or 11 because some self appointed who-ha said God said it was ok. So these grown men really believe it is Gods' will. So since they are not convicted in their minds by God does that make it ok too? BTW I used to work on a farm I have worked from the farm to the kill flood to the processing plant. I know what goes on and I still say "yum" every time it is on the table cause more so I do know where it comes from. The problem is we try to creat God in our own image instead of the other way around. His ways are not our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts. Untill we learn the difference we only feel self conviction and not Godly conviction. I am still struggling to know the difference. I pray every day and study the word exstensivly.So that way every day I can be a little more like him instead of like me! I used to believe the same way you did. I was a head bishop of the sensual union church. 8,000 members in FL. I was so convinced it was all ok. Untill I started asking God to show me biblically if these things were right or wrong. I God a big ol revalation! I don't want too go into public detail, but God showed me what I was doin. I am not writing this to condem more so just too say I have been where you are. I know it seems so awsome at first, but then after a while it will catch up. We just all got to learn in our time.

fadi said:
I don't approve of Hollywood films, nearly all of them, as they take the name of Christ on vain, it upsets me. But at times I do watch films. I don't think the lord would approve even of Disney films, Ice age teaches evolution, yet its packaged as innocent. There is something wrong with nearly everything on tv if you dig deeper. I used to be very legalistic and judgemental and I judged Christians on what they watch on tv. I don't know why God convicts others on certain things yet others he doesn't. I personally don't understand a lot of things, but I know god has searched me and tried me on this issue, and I am accountable to him. I love the Lord and he has not convicted me on some materials I read and watch. I love reading erotic stuff, that's just me. And contray to popular belief I don't think I am going to bell for that. I am a new creature in Christ. I recieve all with thanksgiving without asking if the it has been offered to idols, I just eat , if you ask too much where all meat comes from I am afraid you will never eat. It's what goes out of me that defiles me. Hey I know ya'll think I am crazy but I know whom I believe. I actually counsel females on sex issues, it's something.I personally feel Christians don't dare discuss but there is a huge need for it. Anyway I have to say I strongly disagree with some posts here, I am very open minded and I seem to hear more from god when I put my preconcieved ideas aside. That's how I got a shock of my life when I learnt polygamy is no sin, after years of being programed by the world that's its evil. I have said enough, LOL gotta go
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