The moment she stopped calling you her husband was when you needed to put your foot down and assert your authority and status. Failing that, she waxed worse and worse. Women will get away with what you let them.
-
Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.
Study and Interpretation from any elder.
- Thread starter Herbie
- Start date
The moment she stopped calling you her husband was when you needed to put your foot down and assert your authority and status. Failing that, she waxed worse and worse. Women will get away with what you let them.
C
Cap
Guest
Women are not animals, pets, or children. They are children of God just like men. Sometimes they make bad choices and so do men. The only reason men have an authority in a marriage relationship is because God gave it to him. God can at anytime withdraw that authority. Any statement about whether a woman should toe the line or not should also include a recognition of the man's responsiblity in a relationship.
I’m a sci-fi geek. In the original series of Star Trek, and I believe it was the story of Khan, Kirk was watching Spoc, Bones and Scotty ask/interrogate Khan. Kirk was silent. Khan finally realized Cap Kirk was sitting there observing and taking it all in. Shortly after that Kirk made his choices about how to proceed and his men followed.
My wife is one of my greatest assets, possibly my biggest. In her sphere, what she has been educated in, she is far smarter than me. In my sphere, working with my hands, she takes a back seat.
We discuss things out and try to come to an agreement. If we don’t agree, then I make a decision. However, I see no reason in leaving out my greatest asset during the discussion phase of a decision. What I see from her, the closer my walk with God gets, the easier she submits to my decisions.
(Paint colors and designing aspects of the rehabs I do, she designs. Heck, I’d wear plads with stripes. Design is not my strong suit. I am learning to know when to use her talents. A Proverbs 31 thing)
For a different perspective.
Yeshua said that he didn’t lose one that his Father had given him, other than Judas.
That’s a high standard to live up to and it should be our goal also.
But notice that he didn’t start with a bunch of guys who he deemed were likely candidates, he started with individuals that YHWH had chosen for him. This is generally where our failures start. Man looks at the outside and cannot see the heart, which is deceitfully wicked anyway. So start with YHWH’s choice for you.
But that is no guarantee of success either, just check out how many of YHWH’s creation didn’t successfully walk the walk. Embrace each learning experience and move forward with that much more resolve to succeed.
At the end of the day, each of those failed relationships gave a woman the chance to walk with a man who was seeking righteousness. There is always the possibility that seeds were sown in the heart that will germinate and grow someday in the future. Who knows who you may meet in Heaven due to your interaction with them at a time in which it seemed to have made no difference.
Yeshua said that he didn’t lose one that his Father had given him, other than Judas.
That’s a high standard to live up to and it should be our goal also.
But notice that he didn’t start with a bunch of guys who he deemed were likely candidates, he started with individuals that YHWH had chosen for him. This is generally where our failures start. Man looks at the outside and cannot see the heart, which is deceitfully wicked anyway. So start with YHWH’s choice for you.
But that is no guarantee of success either, just check out how many of YHWH’s creation didn’t successfully walk the walk. Embrace each learning experience and move forward with that much more resolve to succeed.
At the end of the day, each of those failed relationships gave a woman the chance to walk with a man who was seeking righteousness. There is always the possibility that seeds were sown in the heart that will germinate and grow someday in the future. Who knows who you may meet in Heaven due to your interaction with them at a time in which it seemed to have made no difference.
Pft. Are children not children of God? Women are fallen, carnal creatures just like men and just as, if not more, prone to temptation. And amoung the most common of these temptations is to rebel against their husband. If a man is not willing to fight for his marriage, to do what he can to maintain his authority, he's not likely to stay married today. And one of the most common temptations of man is to not act out his authority, but to yield to his wife.
A woman challenging her husbands authority and the husband going along with it is so common a temptation, so basic, that it forms the core of the Adam and Eve story of the fall.
The man's authority is intrinsic to the relationship; a relationship God made clear is for life. There is zero indication in scripture that God will withdraw that authority or ever put the wife in charge. That's just excuse making for women who wish to rebel or leave.
That's just feminist BS to make the women feel better or to give them excuse to disobey when they feel like men aren't upholding their responsibilities. And its that kind of approach which is killing marriages.
And in truth, I was reminding him of his responsibility: his responsibility to not "heed the voice of his wife" but to be the head of his marriage.
I could have said the same thing about any other hierarchal relationship; be it in the military, or political, or in the workforce. It is a fact of life that people challenge hierarchies and that people (whether employees, children, or wives) will attempt to challenge rules to see what they can get away with.
I mean really, his women downgraded him from husband to boyfriend; that's not a 'bad choice', that's outright rebellion.
There is a reason people who get divorced are more likely than average to get divorced if they remarry. Failed relationships don't just happen, like lightning striking, they are the result of our actions and choices. If you don't figure out and learn from your mistakes, you're bound to repeat them again.
C
Cap
Guest
Whose responsiblity is it in creating a marriage? If you say God, then He also creates divorce, or rebellion in it for a reason. If you say man, then when he chooses to marry a woman who rebels, whose fault is that?
And by the way, when my children were younger I, on occasion, would withdraw the authority I gave them for lack of responsibility.
Last edited by a moderator:
You create a false dichotomy. I reject the modern impulses to blame all marriage failures on men while absolving women and justifying sinful divorce.
Paul makes it clear in 1 Cor 7: marriage is for life. That authority will not be withdrawn. The woman who leaves is not justified nor does the man find excuse to abandon her claiming his authority revoked by virtue of her rebellion.
Why, her feelings will tell her! How else could it be?
C
Cap
Guest
You always push things over the edge when it comes to relationships with men and women. False dichotomy or strawman argument, or whatever, nobody is blaming men over women, or women over men, however, the question who is responsible for the marriage in the in the first place is still there. You forget the other statements Paul makes in which he encourages relationships to live in peace. And there has been considerable argument about whether divorce is allowed or not for women, even in general.
C
Cap
Guest
1 Samuel 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.
If one looks closely, I am sure it would become obvious to both the husband and wife, husband mostly, if he truly was following God that something has changed.
In fact, his authority as king was so valid that even his anointed successor would do nothing to harm him, rather actively protected him, and waited patiently for him to die by the hand of another so he could ascend the throne in the timing chosen by God.
If a wife were to follow this pattern, then she would submit to her ungodly husband, never leave him except if required to preserve her own life, and patiently wait for him to die of natural causes if he were not going to change his ways, while doing all she could to keep him alive for as long as possible and therefore maintain the marriage rather than sever it...
Actually, that's probably a really good illustration!
If a wife were to follow this pattern, then she would submit to her ungodly husband, never leave him except if required to preserve her own life, and patiently wait for him to die of natural causes if he were not going to change his ways, while doing all she could to keep him alive for as long as possible and therefore maintain the marriage rather than sever it...
Actually, that's probably a really good illustration!
It worked for Abigail, even though she saved Nabal’s life by going against his wishes.
What you call 'push things over the edge' is me taking things to their logical end. Cap, you literally created a false dichotomy where either divorce is justified because God does it or if a woman rebels and divorces it's man's fault because he chose poorly. Not only does scripture not teach those things, it teaches the opposite.
People blame men over women all the time, even here. I see it every single time, without fail, I talk about the divorce epidemic and it's causes.
My objection was you saying "God can at anytime withdraw that authority." No where has God said that about marriage and we know it is not true because not only did God never give women the authority to divorce (only men) but Paul clearly teaches marriage is for life.
C
Cap
Guest
Genesis 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."
Adam didn't immediately die. Just because one may maintain a resemblance of authority here on earth doesn't mean that God sees it spiritually. Moses, Elijah, and many others faced the same thing. The idea here is that one can operate in this world without the anointing of God, but it's much better when one has it.
Each of the stories in the Bible about that reveal God removing His anounting slowly reveal a decline in the quality of life they live. Not unlike the decline one would expect when a husband doesn't fulfill his rule in s marriage. At some point it would become obvious.
C
Cap
Guest
I understand your campaign to rid the world of feminism, I agree it needs to be done. But, relationships, and the failures of them are more complicated than that. A lot of arguments about divorce and who can and can not have been done here and even though you, and others may think women can't divorce really doesn't mean anything to me. I am married to a divorced woman and I love her dearly and I know perfectly well God created and is within our marriage. And I would marry another divorced woman if God lead me do that. So your condemning such things without the proper knowledge is blind. There is even more discussion on here about what creates a marriage. I happen to believe that God creates marriage and even though you may have sex with someone and show up at a justice of the peace after a night of drinking you could very well not be in a marriage according to God. Why else would God create divorce laws if that weren't the case. (Please don't get caught up in the example)
I believe authority can be withdrawn. You don't have to. If God can anoint kings and then withdraw that anointing, He must surely can do it for a marriage that He has not established. Was Saul His choice to be king, really?
For whatever reason you think my argument is false (according to you) I still am interested in your answer to the question, Who is responsible in the creation of a physical marriage, a man or the woman? If you say man, then who is responsible for its failure?