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Study and Interpretation from any elder.

Herbie

Herbie

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Male
I read the scriptures during my breaks at work. Often, I encounter things that stand out to me passages and verses that I feel inside that God is pointing out to me or leading me to gain a deeper understanding of.
Well for the past few months a certain passage has troubled my thoughts, and I am seeking differing interpretations from others, that may explain what is being conveyed here.
The passage is from Malachi chapter two verses fourteen through sixteen.
If God is telling me something I am very confused as Every wife I have ever had have all committed adultery and left or left then committed adultery. I never mistreated any of them or stepped out on them ever. I truly believe that God is trying to tell me something regarding this. I have prayed over it, and tried to move on but it keeps returning in bible studies, lectures, and conversations. If anyone has any insight into this please let me know.
 
Herbie said:
If God is telling me something I am very confused as Every wife I have ever had have all committed adultery and left or left then committed adultery. I never mistreated any of them or stepped out on them ever. I truly believe that God is trying to tell me something regarding this.
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I do not know your situation so please don't think I am intentionally criticising you. It's just that if God truly does mean to say that this passage literally applies to you in some way, it does suggest that you are at fault in your marriage with your first wife. Things to consider:
  1. Who was truly your first wife (the wife of your youth)? Did you sleep with anybody before the woman you first "married"? Could it be that God is talking about someone different to who you thought?

  2. If your first wife left and committed adultery, was this in any way caused by your behaviour? All marriage success and failure is due to both people in some way, it can never be entirely blamed on one person.
    This is important to consider, because you have had two divorces (I think, from an earlier post of yours). In other words, at least two women have chosen to leave you. This is a pattern, and probably not a coincidence. Is there something about how you treat wives that causes them to leave?
 
The first woman I ever slept with was a Girl that I went to school with. We studied the bible together and courted for sometime. Her father was not a part of her life and had nothing to do with her after her mother had left him for another man that her mother lived in adultery with. I was never able to ask for her hand in marriage due to this. Me and her wanted to marry but both agreed the state should have no part of our marriage. So we prayed together and promised God that we would remain together as husband and wife and consummated our marriage. She Got a job at a chik-fil-a and began sleeping with the manager. Completly stopped studying the bible at home and then after I forgave her soon left for a man who was in the marine corp.
 
I met my second wife also in school but reconnected with her on myspace. We also married in the same way. I lived with her for 7 years, only to discover she was very wicked and lazy. She would not clean or allow me to do so it was so filthy, wanted nothing to do with God. I persued polygamy at this time for the wrong reason. I thought that If we could find a second wife a woman older than us who believed in God and kept his law perhaps her influence could help my wife to do better. which was indeed a misuse of polygamy.
Well my wife who was practicing some other religion secretly i believe to be wicca but never confirmed exactly what only channeled hatred and cruelty toward me. I was posioned during this time by what I believe to be an outside person possibly her. She began an affair with a man at her job who committed suicide. Then became extremly verbally and emotionally abusive while i was dying from being poisoned. during her final assault I ended the marriage and my patience with her. she returned to her mothers where she continued to abuse her mother broke two of her ribs from my understanding, then entered into another adulterous relationship where her first child was a miscarriage and the second survives.
 
Given her background, wife 1 was likely somewhat messed up in her attitude to men and marriage, hence her behavior. If there was anything that you were in fault about, it will be something that you have not thought to share here. Maybe you were too hasty about it, maybe too young, but those are technicalities that you could only criticise in hindsight if there is anything to criticise. The real question would be, having obtained a wife, how did you treat her?

It may be that there are issues that, from your perspective, you don't realise are worth mentioning yet, but God actually wants you to recognise. I can't tell what these are because all I can go on is what you have thought of mentioning.
 
I tried to spend time with her, but she would only push me away. In all honesty, I have never had marriage that afterward I did not feel like a toothbrush thrown in a refuse bin at a highway reststop.
 
Herbie said:
I tried to spend time with her, but she would only push me away.
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Then maybe the issue was bad choices. Did God put this woman in your life for the purpose of marriage, or for another reason?

Here is a really screwed up young lady (probably, given her background). Possibly she was willing to jump into bed with you, calling it whatever you wanted (marriage), because she was simply willing to jump into bed with almost anyone. Then she moved on.

Maybe God did not intend for you to marry her at all? Maybe He wanted you to lead her to Him?

Maybe when you slept with her she dismissed Christianity on some level, thinking all Christians were just the same as secular men and just wanted sex? Maybe it was the act of marrying her that actually stopped you from being the influence God wanted you to be in her life? Maybe this was where you were "unfaithful to the wife of your youth" - you weren't unfaithful in that you cheated on her, but rather unfaithful in that you put your own personal desires ahead of the work of God. He wanted her to be turned to Him, while you turned her to you instead (trying to teach her about Him as a secondary goal)?

In the same way, you took the second wife because you wanted her, despite her not following God. Maybe God intended for you to focus on leading her to Him first also?

Maybe the lesson for you to learn is to put His work first, and not be focussed on getting a wife at all, but be focussed on evangelism? And leave all thought of marriage up to Him?

Just my rambling thoughts, I might be off-track but if it's right it may make sense to you.
 
I did my best and followed Gods law, they professed to be christian and then changed afterward. I studied the bible with them and prayed with them, observed the sabbath on saturday and did my best to keep ungodly things out of our house. Not to be satiracal, but I honestly feel that had they not been with me they would have turned from God even sooner. I honestly dont know though. Maybe God is trying to tell me that He feels that people treat Him like trash. You know just use him for what they want then toss him to the side, Or use him for their own self edification at his emotional expense. If thats the case I would have preferred a post it note.
 
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Sometimes God allows us to get into wrong relationships to lead us to the right ones. They help us focus more on Him and His desires for us more than depending on our choices. I would say let the past relationships go, ask for forgiveness, and move on to the relationships He has for you. Learning from your mistakes makes you a better partner when the right ones come along.
 
Malachi 2:14-16 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 Yet you say, “For what reason?”
Because the Lord has been witness
Between you and the wife of your youth,
With whom you have dealt treacherously;
Yet she is your companion
And your wife by covenant.
15 But did He not make them one,
Having a remnant of the Spirit?
And why one?
He seeks godly offspring.
Therefore take heed to your spirit,
And let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth.
16 “For the Lord God of Israel says
That He hates divorce,
For it covers one’s garment with violence,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
“Therefore take heed to your spirit,
That you do not deal treacherously.”
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There is a lot I don't know so this is a little bit of shooting in the dark; so don't be surprised if I missed. Just trying to help, take or leave as you see fit.

She was secretly wiccan the whole time or took that up after marriage?

You might want to consider you choose poorly. Wife #1's family history points strongly towards her failing at marriage. But that doesn't really tie in with the passage.

"He seeks godly offspring." You were with a woman 7 years, did you not have children in that time? You make no mention of children in any of this. What is your purpose in marriage? Do you seek to fulfill your creation mandate to be fruitful and multiply?

"Yet she is your companion" If she was really your companion, how would the wiccan influence go unnoticed? That is the kind of thing I'd see and nip in the bud and eliminate any such influences in her life, by whatever way they come in.

"But did He not make them one" If you and her are spiritually one, walking in the word and with God, it would be much harder for your wife to go from Christian to not; or at least, you wouldn't be surprised by it. Were you the spiritual leader, the guru, the pastor to your wife? Or did you leave those jobs to others? While I could see how a woman who might feed you a poison meal right after spending 30 minutes bearing her soul to you in prayer; I'd say it's unlikely. Even if I thought I did nothing wrong, if my wife fell away I'd be repenting to God for failing in my leadership role.

"your wife by covenant" You didn't just agree to take on the title of husband, you agreed to become her leader. "She would not clean or allow me to do so it was so filthy" speaks of someone who is not only not a leader, but has completely lost control. It sounds like maybe you lack the tools or personality or discipline for leadership. These are things you can work on.
 
I was naive. I believed that simply because a woman said she believed in God meant she respected his law and her husbands position within the marriage, a mistake I will never make again. What example did I have to follow? I lacked understanding until I started studying Gods law deeper who saved me from her. I was raised by baptists my moms marriage to my father was adultery from which I was conceived, and raised She did not respect him anything he said was a joke to her. Not to mention the lies I was taught by churches for years. I was not truly born again " saved from modern Christianity until 6 years into the relationship at least. I never had children because once with her and discovering what and who she really was I did not want my children to be raised by her. Why would I have had children with a woman believed in abortion? The only time she thought she might have been pregnant she took a plan b pill. God protected me from her because I lacked knowledge and understanding. I stayed with her because I truly believe marriage is permanent, and knew enough of what the son of God said to know that divorce is only ok with God if adultery has occurred. As far as the wicca thing I still dont know, she started to draw pentagrams on her hands with weird symbols towards the end of the relationship, and against my wishes began spending time with a woman who clearly did practice it.
I know from the book of Ezra not to enter marriage with any woman who does not obey Gods law, and never would.
followinghim, cap, and rockfox have all offered good advice and opinions on the matter.
Im willing to learn from it, and have. as for what God is saying exaclty im still not quite certain for sure But im willing to listen and apply His teachings to my own life.
 
Herbie said:
I was naive. I believed that simply because a woman said she believed in God meant she respected his law and her husbands position within the marriage, a mistake I will never make again. What example did I have to follow? I lacked understanding until I started studying Gods law deeper who saved me from her.
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I'd say more men than not have made the same mistake.

Herbie said:
I never had children because once with her and discovering what and who she really was I did not want my children to be raised by her. Why would I have had children with a woman believed in abortion? The only time she thought she might have been pregnant she took a plan b pill. God protected me from her because I lacked knowledge and understanding
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That was probably a wise move. Can't argue with that.
 
Well, whilst listening to a video on youtube late yesterday about twilight, I heard mention of a First Love and a church of Ephesus. I have long felt God was telling me something in a metaphorical sense not entirely pertaining to marriage. Well I read revelation chap 2 regarding the church the first few vereses really felt how I felt about myself.But it gave little explantion of the first love thing. well after some speculation. I feel that he is telling me that my relationship with christ has suffered that while I have focused upon the Father and his law my true relationship with christ has kind of been on the rocks in a way. I feel that he is leading me to study more of the new testament and apply it to my own life. While my wives have indeed all done great wickedness unto me, I honestly attribute it to their rebellion against God and his Law. I will try to repair my love with christ and renew it, the best that I can. But honestly, how do you make Love grow in what emotionally feels like rock. How can you soften that which has become like stone? Thank you all very much for you input and most of all your prayers. I feel God has answered them.
 
Now that makes sense! And to be honest I could apply that to my own life to some extent. I can't think of a simple answer except focussing on prayer even when you don't want to pray. Others may have more helpful advice.
 
Do you feel and sense that you have more understanding, wisdom and knowledge now about a man's role inside of a marriage and a woman's role inside of a marriage? What is your understanding of gender roles?

What about feminism? What about patriarchy?

Do you have a problem with feminism? Do you have a problem with Patriarchy?

The man needs to lead, guide, teach, love and protect his woman/women.

This is what I can clearly read and understanding inside the scripture.

hen I say protect, then I means to protect her/them from false doctrines, from false teachers, from false churches, and from hypocritical lifestyles.

The man needs to show and prove a good moral standard.

Most, if not all, women today are rebellious, disobedient and stubborn, and not willing to submit to a man.
Many women has been taught to be independent and this is what feminism teaches.

Women needs to get back to how it has been before. Feminism makes it a mess. Patriarchy puts life in order.

Many women says something like:

1. ''We are living now''
2. ''We are not living in the past.''
3. ''The society changes and people changes.''
4. ''We need to follow what is ''in'' and popular in order to fit into this world.''

I have myself a bad past with women.

Not easy to handle women who are rebellious, disobedient and prideful, who are influenced by this world and do not want to submit to what the scripture says about love and kindness.

They all, I am talking about those I have been together with in the past, believed they were so loving and right in what they were doing when they were unfaithful to me. Twisted and sinful love.

I mean women who has been together with me has been unfaithful to me and shown feelings and emotions for someone else than me, even though they both promised faithfulness to me.

I have a woman now from Philippines and who lives in Philippines. I live in Europe for the moment.

I do believe it will work out for me and her if she understands and knows that I love her no matter how many wives I have and no matter how far we are from one another. She is older than me, but see no problems with her age, but she have problems with the scripture from time to time about multiple wives, aka. Polygyny, and this seems to be the biggest problem for her and homeschooling is another part she can have problems with.

Otherwise she seem to be pretty fine with what I am saying and doing.

How is your situation right now?
 
Johan Paulsson said:
Most, if not all, women today are rebellious, disobedient and stubborn, and not willing to submit to a man.
Many women has been taught to be independent and this is what feminism teaches.
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Amazing, in Ephesians 5:25: “For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her." Genesis 2:24: “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." ... He who loves his wife loves himself.”

What I see as I look around, these women you talk about, don’t feel loved. They feel suppressed and unwanted. My wife has none of the personality traits you discuss here. However, she may be the only woman on the planet without those offenses you brought out. No, ya gotta add my 90 year old mother to that also. Then again, I have 3 sister and sister-in-laws to add also. Then again, I could start a list of hundreds of women I’ve known and know.

My suggestion for Herbie is simple, but takes some gut searching. Think back on, not so much what his wives did, but the mistakes he may have done. Then, don’t condemn himself, but thru prayer, couseling and study recreate himself into a man closer to what only God can create.

From reading your words Herbie, you got this started and will become that man God wants. Heck, God already loves ya, that’s the biggest thing out of the way.
 
Johan, regarding your questions the scripture reads: Genesis 3
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

In matthew 24 the son of God said this in regards to those who operate a household:
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

as far as Marriage; that which the world now calls marriage is no more marriage than Sunday is the sabbath to the Son of God
 
Herbie said:
Me and her wanted to marry but both agreed the state should have no part of our marriage. So we prayed together and promised God that we would remain together as husband and wife and consummated our marriage.
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I think there are a lot of good reasons to not involve the state in your marriage. However, I do not think a secret marriage is generally a good idea (and I have no idea if you did this or not). I think it makes a lot of sense to announce to everyone around you what kind of relationship you have especially to all of those closest to you. Build those relationships with the in-laws. Take advantage of peer group pressure on marriage. Have those around you expect you to be married and act like it.

In a secret marriage it is easy for one party to just sneak out the back door.

Secondly I think society is changing and the younger women, especially the non-Christian younger women really do not care that much about marriage. They do not need it to support themselves. They do not care about sexual promiscuity (after all, everyone is doing it, etc). For this reason, I think you have to be very careful who you marry. You have to be very careful judge of character, both hers, and the family she grew up in. Keep an eye out for those red flags. You want someone who is a strong Christian and a strong sacrificial character. Not easy to find, I know.
 
Phillip said:
Amazing, in Ephesians 5:25: “For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her." Genesis 2:24: “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." ... He who loves his wife loves himself.”

What I see as I look around, these women you talk about, don’t feel loved. They feel suppressed and unwanted. My wife has none of the personality traits you discuss here. However, she may be the only woman on the planet without those offenses you brought out. No, ya gotta add my 90 year old mother to that also. Then again, I have 3 sister and sister-in-laws to add also. Then again, I could start a list of hundreds of women I’ve known and know.

My suggestion for Herbie is simple, but takes some gut searching. Think back on, not so much what his wives did, but the mistakes he may have done. Then, don’t condemn himself, but thru prayer, couseling and study recreate himself into a man closer to what only God can create.

From reading your words Herbie, you got this started and will become that man God wants. Heck, God already loves ya, that’s the biggest thing out of the way.
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What I see when looking around and hearing women is that many women having a twisted understanding what love is and how love should be practiced.

If I would ask all these women that you know I would most likely not agree with them concerning what love and kindness is because I believe that those you know are socially correct and socially inclined.

Can be that they are saying something I agree on, but mostly women are in need of a Godly, holy and righteous man, whether he have one wife or multiple wives, who can teach them about love and kindness in the light of the scripture.

Jesus Christ using a whip was very loving according to himself and according to his Father in heaven.

I am talking about my own experiences in conversations with women, both in real life and from far away.

What many women consider as love and kindness is not always considered as love and kindness by me and neither by God.

What I see is that many women going by immoral emotions and do not always base love and kindness on what the scripture says is love and kindness.

Love and kindness always needs to be understood and recognized in the light of the scripture.

If not from the scripture then love and kindness are corrupted.

It is important and necessary for a true Christian and Believing man to ensure that when they describe and define love and kindness then it must be in the light of the scripture and not based on anyone's immoral emotions.
 
It was not secret, to begin with they did believe. I always introduced them as my wife, and they my husband at first. You see over time people around them family inlaws, so called friends convinced them that because we had not gotten a state contract we were not married. So over time I went from husband to boyfriend, to religious nut job. lol
Isnt Sodomite America Just great. :)
 
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