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Speaking in tongues, is it biblical or not? What say you?
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Re: Speaking in tongues, is it biblical or not? What say you
I think I figured this out: You and I are using the word "interpretation" differently.
The word "interpret" means to take something incomprehensible and make it plain, exemplified particularly by a language interpreter. There's a different use in the art world, as in "interpretive dance", or "my interpretation of Moonlight Sonata", but even then, properly used, it should mean that I am taking some hidden meaning or significance or the piece and revealing it.
Sadly, the word has come to mean a rather subjective "spin" on things, as in "my interpretation of Mt 19:9 can beat up your interpretation".
This is an old, old controversy. Am I trying to take meaning from the text, or am I trying to put meaning into the text?
Sometimes we use shorthand, and mean something other than what we say. To wit:
Paul says some stuff about the holy spirit distributing gifts to the body of Christ. There is nothing in scripture that is textual evidence that what he said then was for the Corinthians, say, and only for the Corinthians. In fact, the fact that he mentioned it to two or three churches is some evidence that it's general teaching for everybody. And he never said anything about its being a temporary dispensation.
Down the road, some people for different reasons have established reasons to believe that the gifts are no longer operative (or some are held to be no longer operative and some are redefined to mean something else). I have no problem with someone who thinks that (I wouldn't touch that debate with a ten foot pole), but I have a problem with someone that tries to "interpret" the text to mean something other than what it says.
Explaining why you think something doesn't apply to you is not the same as explaining what the something is, and deciding that, for example, tongues are no longer given by the spirit (and its sidekick - that anyone that believes that or speaks in tongues is deluded) is not "interpreting the text". That doesn't stop people, though, from saying things like "my interpretation of this passage is this and yours is that". That's not what's going on at all, but that's what is said.
Any of this making sense?
I think I figured this out: You and I are using the word "interpretation" differently.
The word "interpret" means to take something incomprehensible and make it plain, exemplified particularly by a language interpreter. There's a different use in the art world, as in "interpretive dance", or "my interpretation of Moonlight Sonata", but even then, properly used, it should mean that I am taking some hidden meaning or significance or the piece and revealing it.
Sadly, the word has come to mean a rather subjective "spin" on things, as in "my interpretation of Mt 19:9 can beat up your interpretation".
This is an old, old controversy. Am I trying to take meaning from the text, or am I trying to put meaning into the text?
Sometimes we use shorthand, and mean something other than what we say. To wit:
Paul says some stuff about the holy spirit distributing gifts to the body of Christ. There is nothing in scripture that is textual evidence that what he said then was for the Corinthians, say, and only for the Corinthians. In fact, the fact that he mentioned it to two or three churches is some evidence that it's general teaching for everybody. And he never said anything about its being a temporary dispensation.
Down the road, some people for different reasons have established reasons to believe that the gifts are no longer operative (or some are held to be no longer operative and some are redefined to mean something else). I have no problem with someone who thinks that (I wouldn't touch that debate with a ten foot pole), but I have a problem with someone that tries to "interpret" the text to mean something other than what it says.
Explaining why you think something doesn't apply to you is not the same as explaining what the something is, and deciding that, for example, tongues are no longer given by the spirit (and its sidekick - that anyone that believes that or speaks in tongues is deluded) is not "interpreting the text". That doesn't stop people, though, from saying things like "my interpretation of this passage is this and yours is that". That's not what's going on at all, but that's what is said.
Any of this making sense?
Re: Speaking in tongues, is it biblical or not? What say you
In practice, I think people who have never experienced the miraculous gifts in their own lives tend to follow theological views that say they are not for today, while those who have experienced them cannot deny them so follow theological views that say they are for today. Although the different perspectives are justified biblically, the choice between them tends to be triggered by experience, then theology is used to drill deeper and understand that viewpoint better from scripture - but the viewpoint has already been chosen and is not changed through that study.
For me, having had someone speak a word of knowledge into my life that they could not have known without God directly revealing it to them, I cannot deny that at least the gift of a "word of knowledge" is in action today. And wisdom and faith are also clearly evident in the lives of Christians today. Since that is the case, I cannot deny the possibility that the other more miraculous gifts may also be active. And the thing that made me realise that God was truly real was when I was "slain in the Spirit" as they call it at the age of 10 and was somehow watching myself lying on the floor from the ceiling... Now I admit that's weird and I can't find in the Bible, but it certainly happened to me when I was prayed for, God can do whatever He likes.
At the same time I maintain what I consider to be a healthy degree of scepticism around some of the more wacky things that are claimed to be "tongues" for instance. Every instance of tongues in the Bible is of someone miraculously being able to speak a language they had not learnt for the purpose of ministry. That does occur today. I don't see Biblical examples of "holy laughter" etc, so I can neither promote nor condemn it but remain cautious.
In practice, I think people who have never experienced the miraculous gifts in their own lives tend to follow theological views that say they are not for today, while those who have experienced them cannot deny them so follow theological views that say they are for today. Although the different perspectives are justified biblically, the choice between them tends to be triggered by experience, then theology is used to drill deeper and understand that viewpoint better from scripture - but the viewpoint has already been chosen and is not changed through that study.
For me, having had someone speak a word of knowledge into my life that they could not have known without God directly revealing it to them, I cannot deny that at least the gift of a "word of knowledge" is in action today. And wisdom and faith are also clearly evident in the lives of Christians today. Since that is the case, I cannot deny the possibility that the other more miraculous gifts may also be active. And the thing that made me realise that God was truly real was when I was "slain in the Spirit" as they call it at the age of 10 and was somehow watching myself lying on the floor from the ceiling... Now I admit that's weird and I can't find in the Bible, but it certainly happened to me when I was prayed for, God can do whatever He likes.
At the same time I maintain what I consider to be a healthy degree of scepticism around some of the more wacky things that are claimed to be "tongues" for instance. Every instance of tongues in the Bible is of someone miraculously being able to speak a language they had not learnt for the purpose of ministry. That does occur today. I don't see Biblical examples of "holy laughter" etc, so I can neither promote nor condemn it but remain cautious.
Re: Speaking in tongues, is it biblical or not? What say you
The parables are as good an example as any....
The point there is that a 'coded' message, so to speak, was being given, that had to be interpreted. Jesus himself gave us the interpretation of what He meant in most cases, and that's as good as it gets.
Actually, Jesus gave the interpretation to his disciples, and specifically called out that he was 'hiding the ball' from the general public. That raises some interesting questions that are outside the scope of this thread. The point is that he didn't give his interpretations directly to us; we're just fortunate that someone wrote them down later so we have the 'key' to understanding the parables.
Now, suppose I said that this morning the holy spirit had given me new revelation that the parable of the sower actually means something completely different from what Jesus said it means. What do you make of that?
My position is that it's not a free for all, that we don't get to just make stuff up, and that private interpretations are relatively worthless to the larger body of Christ (except in the trite and unhelpful sense that God can do pretty much anything he wants, and between Abraham and Isaac on the one hand and Peter and Cornelius on the other, I don't think we need to rehash that principle).
If God has told you to do something outlandish that contradicts everything reasonable people have ever heard from him, then just go get it over with and quit talking about it. But if we're having a discussion about general principles, then you can't just play the "this is what it means to me" card.
Meanwhile, though, back to the parables. If there's something obscure in scripture that requires interpretation (a parable, a prophetic revelation, etc.), then the objective should be "What Would Jesus Say?"—how would He interpret it. And we all have different approaches to figuring that out. What I'm resisting here and in the other thread is the notion that we each just get to pick what suits us, or that all interpretations are equally valid.
I think FH summed up pretty well a cautious but open-minded approach to the bible's teaching on tongues. We all know the extremists on both ends that turn their dogma into shibboleths. Let's just not be those guys, and leave each other some slack to have our own experiences with God and receive our own gifts from the HS, without judging or being afraid of things we haven't experienced.
The parables are as good an example as any....
The point there is that a 'coded' message, so to speak, was being given, that had to be interpreted. Jesus himself gave us the interpretation of what He meant in most cases, and that's as good as it gets.
Actually, Jesus gave the interpretation to his disciples, and specifically called out that he was 'hiding the ball' from the general public. That raises some interesting questions that are outside the scope of this thread. The point is that he didn't give his interpretations directly to us; we're just fortunate that someone wrote them down later so we have the 'key' to understanding the parables.
Now, suppose I said that this morning the holy spirit had given me new revelation that the parable of the sower actually means something completely different from what Jesus said it means. What do you make of that?
My position is that it's not a free for all, that we don't get to just make stuff up, and that private interpretations are relatively worthless to the larger body of Christ (except in the trite and unhelpful sense that God can do pretty much anything he wants, and between Abraham and Isaac on the one hand and Peter and Cornelius on the other, I don't think we need to rehash that principle).
If God has told you to do something outlandish that contradicts everything reasonable people have ever heard from him, then just go get it over with and quit talking about it. But if we're having a discussion about general principles, then you can't just play the "this is what it means to me" card.
Meanwhile, though, back to the parables. If there's something obscure in scripture that requires interpretation (a parable, a prophetic revelation, etc.), then the objective should be "What Would Jesus Say?"—how would He interpret it. And we all have different approaches to figuring that out. What I'm resisting here and in the other thread is the notion that we each just get to pick what suits us, or that all interpretations are equally valid.
I think FH summed up pretty well a cautious but open-minded approach to the bible's teaching on tongues. We all know the extremists on both ends that turn their dogma into shibboleths. Let's just not be those guys, and leave each other some slack to have our own experiences with God and receive our own gifts from the HS, without judging or being afraid of things we haven't experienced.
Lizness_Princess
New Member
Re: Speaking in tongues, is it biblical or not? What say you
Now this is a topic that I had fought my family and God on SO much that it actually turned me away from Him for a long while and even got me kicked out of my parents' house for a couple months. But the Lord knows that I am a very stubborn student..something that has definitely made my life more interesting and in many ways, difficult; but when I get His lessons, I totally get them, and the final result is worth the pain of the journey.
I was raised in a baptist church/community, where spiritual gifts like speaking in tongues and prophesy are taught to be "dead" or "not applicable" in modern-day Christianity, even though they technically teach that there are (and/or were) "spiritual gifts." It's quite funny and interesting to me actually, because the Bible is acknowledged by christians to be God's Word. And the last time I checked, God and His Word(s) are the same yesterday, today, and forever. He is completely consistent and faithful in all things. So to me, if God's Word says, "There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines." ...Then I believe every word that He has said to be the truth, and so I believe that speaking in tongues is, in fact, very biblical.
As I mentioned in the very beginning of this post, I had a tough time with the more "charismatic" spiritual gifts like speaking in tongues, healing, and prophecy. God really packed a punch when He started moving my family in that direction, away from the safety and comfort in the teachings and doctrine of the baptist/methodist/protestant churches we had always attended/been members of. He over-flooded my life and senses with these "spiritual gifts" and I hated every minute of it, got lost in the hatred and fighting, fell away from God, and got kicked out of my parents' house. (That is most definitely the SHORT version..haha). When I finally turned back to God, He really challenged me on this topic, similarly to how He challenged me on the topic of polygyny - it was something that shook my foundational knowledge and understanding of His kingdom.
My thought: Follow your shepherd. (John 10 - The sheep know the voice of their shepherd and will follow; they will run from the unfamiliar voice of a stranger.) There are "extremists" on BOTH sides, like Andrew said, and they will do their hardest to persuade you through their "interpretations" of the Word to believe like they do, to act like they do. But there is a difference between spiritual discernment and skepticism. I would rather be spiritually discerning than skeptical concerning the gifts of the Spirit. Like it says in 1 John 4: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. ...By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error." By testing the person who says they have XYZ gift, you are actually testing the spirit inside of them..to see if it is from God or not. And God always rises to the challenge for the sake of our faith (or at least, He always has for me). I am a firm believer that if you faithfully and earnestly follow the presence of God, the voice of God, and the word of God, then He will lead you through all of the riff-raff and hullabaloo to the truth and to His heart on every matter.
PS. When I say "test" them, I don't mean give out a sheet of paper with fill-in-the-blanks or multiple choice. That would be quite ridiculous. Besides, will you know all the answers to every test before administering the exam?
Now this is a topic that I had fought my family and God on SO much that it actually turned me away from Him for a long while and even got me kicked out of my parents' house for a couple months. But the Lord knows that I am a very stubborn student..something that has definitely made my life more interesting and in many ways, difficult; but when I get His lessons, I totally get them, and the final result is worth the pain of the journey.
I was raised in a baptist church/community, where spiritual gifts like speaking in tongues and prophesy are taught to be "dead" or "not applicable" in modern-day Christianity, even though they technically teach that there are (and/or were) "spiritual gifts." It's quite funny and interesting to me actually, because the Bible is acknowledged by christians to be God's Word. And the last time I checked, God and His Word(s) are the same yesterday, today, and forever. He is completely consistent and faithful in all things. So to me, if God's Word says, "There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines." ...Then I believe every word that He has said to be the truth, and so I believe that speaking in tongues is, in fact, very biblical.
As I mentioned in the very beginning of this post, I had a tough time with the more "charismatic" spiritual gifts like speaking in tongues, healing, and prophecy. God really packed a punch when He started moving my family in that direction, away from the safety and comfort in the teachings and doctrine of the baptist/methodist/protestant churches we had always attended/been members of. He over-flooded my life and senses with these "spiritual gifts" and I hated every minute of it, got lost in the hatred and fighting, fell away from God, and got kicked out of my parents' house. (That is most definitely the SHORT version..haha). When I finally turned back to God, He really challenged me on this topic, similarly to how He challenged me on the topic of polygyny - it was something that shook my foundational knowledge and understanding of His kingdom.
My thought: Follow your shepherd. (John 10 - The sheep know the voice of their shepherd and will follow; they will run from the unfamiliar voice of a stranger.) There are "extremists" on BOTH sides, like Andrew said, and they will do their hardest to persuade you through their "interpretations" of the Word to believe like they do, to act like they do. But there is a difference between spiritual discernment and skepticism. I would rather be spiritually discerning than skeptical concerning the gifts of the Spirit. Like it says in 1 John 4: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. ...By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error." By testing the person who says they have XYZ gift, you are actually testing the spirit inside of them..to see if it is from God or not. And God always rises to the challenge for the sake of our faith (or at least, He always has for me). I am a firm believer that if you faithfully and earnestly follow the presence of God, the voice of God, and the word of God, then He will lead you through all of the riff-raff and hullabaloo to the truth and to His heart on every matter.
PS. When I say "test" them, I don't mean give out a sheet of paper with fill-in-the-blanks or multiple choice. That would be quite ridiculous.
Besides, will you know all the answers to every test before administering the exam?
pebble
Member
Re: Speaking in tongues, is it biblical or not? What say you
Hello.
Is there a difference between speaking in tongues and speaking in gibberish?
I do not doubt this gift and it is Biblical, "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other languages, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
Am afraid when people say they can do this (today), it is usually in gibberish or maybe an alien tongue that is only intelligible in another planet. Has anyone noticed that even in Tatooine they speak English?
Hello.
Is there a difference between speaking in tongues and speaking in gibberish?
I do not doubt this gift and it is Biblical, "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other languages, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
Am afraid when people say they can do this (today), it is usually in gibberish or maybe an alien tongue that is only intelligible in another planet. Has anyone noticed that even in Tatooine they speak English?
Lizness_Princess
New Member
Re: Speaking in tongues, is it biblical or not? What say you
I am using the app to respond very quickly to your question...it's actually 3:50 am for me right now. LOL!
But if you look very carefully at 1 Corinthians 14, Paul goes into deeper detail into specifically the gifts of prophesy and of speaking in tongues. Essentially, I think that God is so great and amazing and He uses every gift so uniquely with each person He "assigns" these gifts to. Specifically for the gift of speaking in tongues, I normally find it to be something that is meant to build and develop your relationship with God, whereas the gifts of prophesy and healing are usually focused on building up the Church (aka His followers). Now, I have seen where a person's gift of tongue is an actual earthly language that they never knew or learned before (and it was used as a witnessing tool without the person's knowledge until someone interpreted it for them), but I've also seen it where it may sound like gibberish to your ears. I think That if God can understand and know my heart and my prayers before I even ask, then "language" does not really matter. After all, He is the one who created "new languages" at the Tower of Babel, and He can take it away or replace it as He wills. Do you know if the kingdom of heaven operates in English or Arabic or any earthly language? (Also see 1 Corinthians 14:2...I would type it out but I'm kind of typing all this on my phone! XD)
Now, I can give an example of when a small group of people were praying in turn and one of the pastors in the group started praying in "tongues". The presence in the room completely changed and an unsettled feeling came, and so someone in the group stopped him. After he stopped, that feeling left and so he was asked to step outside of the prayer group. I can also tell you about an experience where I was being prayed for and as they were praying in tongues I felt the warmth and presence of God wash over me, and then when they prophesied it also confirmed the spirit was of God because there was no way they could have known unless God had shown them. So like I said, spiritual discernment is very important.
The Spirit of God moves beyond our understanding, and beyond our comprehension of what is "language", and I don't try to understand it all. But The Lord has already given you everything you need to be well-equipped for your relationship with Him and for the furthering of His kingdom. So there is no need to be afraid or worry; "Be strong and courageous. Do not fear or be in dread of them, for it is The Lord your God who goes with you. He will not leave you nor forsake you." Like I said, just follow the voice of your shepherd and you'll be good.
And now, good night....
I am using the app to respond very quickly to your question...it's actually 3:50 am for me right now. LOL!
But if you look very carefully at 1 Corinthians 14, Paul goes into deeper detail into specifically the gifts of prophesy and of speaking in tongues. Essentially, I think that God is so great and amazing and He uses every gift so uniquely with each person He "assigns" these gifts to. Specifically for the gift of speaking in tongues, I normally find it to be something that is meant to build and develop your relationship with God, whereas the gifts of prophesy and healing are usually focused on building up the Church (aka His followers). Now, I have seen where a person's gift of tongue is an actual earthly language that they never knew or learned before (and it was used as a witnessing tool without the person's knowledge until someone interpreted it for them), but I've also seen it where it may sound like gibberish to your ears. I think That if God can understand and know my heart and my prayers before I even ask, then "language" does not really matter. After all, He is the one who created "new languages" at the Tower of Babel, and He can take it away or replace it as He wills. Do you know if the kingdom of heaven operates in English or Arabic or any earthly language? (Also see 1 Corinthians 14:2...I would type it out but I'm kind of typing all this on my phone! XD)
Now, I can give an example of when a small group of people were praying in turn and one of the pastors in the group started praying in "tongues". The presence in the room completely changed and an unsettled feeling came, and so someone in the group stopped him. After he stopped, that feeling left and so he was asked to step outside of the prayer group. I can also tell you about an experience where I was being prayed for and as they were praying in tongues I felt the warmth and presence of God wash over me, and then when they prophesied it also confirmed the spirit was of God because there was no way they could have known unless God had shown them. So like I said, spiritual discernment is very important.
The Spirit of God moves beyond our understanding, and beyond our comprehension of what is "language", and I don't try to understand it all. But The Lord has already given you everything you need to be well-equipped for your relationship with Him and for the furthering of His kingdom. So there is no need to be afraid or worry; "Be strong and courageous. Do not fear or be in dread of them, for it is The Lord your God who goes with you. He will not leave you nor forsake you."
Like I said, just follow the voice of your shepherd and you'll be good. And now, good night....
Lizness_Princess
New Member
Re: Speaking in tongues, is it biblical or not? What say you
Thank you...being a stubborn student has some benefits I guess. ;p lol!
Thank you...being a stubborn student has some benefits I guess. ;p lol!
Re: Speaking in tongues, is it biblical or not? What say you
Lizness_Princess, good posts. I'll just point out that when I say 'scepticism' I basically mean 'don't believe every spirit, but test', ie following 1 John 4. But I used one word to refer to it instead of spelling it out. We're on the same page, just using different terminology.
Lizness_Princess, good posts. I'll just point out that when I say 'scepticism' I basically mean 'don't believe every spirit, but test', ie following 1 John 4. But I used one word to refer to it instead of spelling it out. We're on the same page, just using different terminology.
Lizness_Princess
New Member
Re: Speaking in tongues, is it biblical or not? What say you
Samuel, I knew what you meant when you said it before, but I thought it would be a good idea to really make the distinction between skepticism versus spiritual discernment and awareness, especially because this is an important topic.
I wouldn't have felt right, as your sister-in-Christ, to allow you, my fellow brothers and sisters-in-Christ, the possibility of skepticism, or a seed of doubt, to enter your minds/hearts as to whether or not these gifts are real or present in modern-day Christianity, or question their biblical validity. Instead, as your sister, I would much rather warn against skepticism, and focus on encouraging you to sharpen your skills of spiritual discernment and actively practice following The Lord so you will know His voice and presence, and so you will turn away from the "stranger" who is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
So yes, I fully understood what you meant by "skepticism", and I'm glad we are of the same understanding, but words carry so much impact and meaning, I wanted to be sure to choose the terminology that seemed to fit best.
Samuel, I knew what you meant when you said it before, but I thought it would be a good idea to really make the distinction between skepticism versus spiritual discernment and awareness, especially because this is an important topic.
I wouldn't have felt right, as your sister-in-Christ, to allow you, my fellow brothers and sisters-in-Christ, the possibility of skepticism, or a seed of doubt, to enter your minds/hearts as to whether or not these gifts are real or present in modern-day Christianity, or question their biblical validity. Instead, as your sister, I would much rather warn against skepticism, and focus on encouraging you to sharpen your skills of spiritual discernment and actively practice following The Lord so you will know His voice and presence, and so you will turn away from the "stranger" who is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
So yes, I fully understood what you meant by "skepticism", and I'm glad we are of the same understanding, but words carry so much impact and meaning, I wanted to be sure to choose the terminology that seemed to fit best.
pebble
Member
Re: Speaking in tongues, is it biblical or not? What say you
[quote="Lizness_Princess"sharpen your skills of spiritual discernment [/quote]
I sure would appreciate tips and direction, ma'am. Some online reading material perhaps. Am still an infant in faith and the past few weeks the enemy has been trying to get at the chinks and creases in my armor, of which there are plenty. Am kinda overwhelmed.
But I do believe in speaking in tongues and I'll keep in heart not to question the ways of the Holy Ghost but listen intently instead, with discernment.
Thanks.
[quote="Lizness_Princess"sharpen your skills of spiritual discernment [/quote]
I sure would appreciate tips and direction, ma'am. Some online reading material perhaps. Am still an infant in faith and the past few weeks the enemy has been trying to get at the chinks and creases in my armor, of which there are plenty. Am kinda overwhelmed.
But I do believe in speaking in tongues and I'll keep in heart not to question the ways of the Holy Ghost but listen intently instead, with discernment.
Thanks.
Lizness_Princess
New Member
Re: Speaking in tongues, is it biblical or not? What say you
Dear Mr. Pebble,
I am glad that you'll be keeping an open mind and heart about the gifts of the Spirit.
I just want to start out saying, I am sooooo not an "expert" at all of this, I am only expressing what I understand and have experienced. As far as "tips and direction", the only direction I can point you to is God, and the only tip I can really give to you is that you sharpen your skills when you grow in Him. I suppose I never actually said how one would "test" the spirit within a person. But how do you think we should test to see if it is the Spirit of God at work, or Satan and his lies at work?
I think there are a few ways to test the spirit within the person:
Most importantly - "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God." (1 John 4:2-3).
B, Do the things this person is saying match what is in the word of God? If the Bible is the word of God, then whoever speaks and teaches in line with it is also from God. But if what they teach is not congruent with every word that God has given to us, then that person is not from God. Even if you have a pastor at a church preaching something, you should also be studying the Word to see if what he is saying is matching the Scripture, or if it is a manipulation of Scripture. "Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path." (Psalm 119:105). And the only way to know the truth is if you know the Scripture. So read your Bible, but most importantly, study it. There is a big difference between reading to read versus reading to study. You want to be a student of the Word, study it completely, so that it is written on your mind and heart (Jeremiah 31:33, Deut. 11:18, Psalm 119:10-12...for starters), so that you'll be strong in your armor (Ephesians 6:10-18), and so that you'll grow in your discernment. A person who can discern well between truth and falsehood will also be able to discern between good and better; but it is through maturity and knowledge of Scripture that you can sharpen your abilities.
3. Know the voice of your shepherd. The only way you'll really get to know that voice is by building a relationship with that person - who is God. I think that how you choose to communicate and build that relationship is up to you. But to me, prayer is a huge key in hearing and recognizing His voice, after all, don't you get to know someone's voice the more they talk with you? But I also think that prayer is not just about you "talking to God." I once heard it described as this: During the "good times", that is when you are learning from God, hearing from Him, growing in Him, so listen very intently and be a very good student. During the "dry or silent times", that is when it seems you are so far away from Him, but actually He's standing close and just speaking in less than a whisper." When I've personally been in a "silent time", the best thing I do is to just be silent and not seek Him with words, but with my heart. I search for His presence..because like I said, He's not far away, and being in His presence is good enough for me. I actually spend a lot of my "prayer time" either just listening or being in His presence (every once in a while I definitely rant to Him though). LOL!!
Lastly, the fruit a person produces is an amazing, accurate indicator of the spirit. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." (Galatians 5:22-23). However, this is one method that may take time to see, and one that can change depending on the "season" or time. Fruits have to grow and some can take longer time than others to become ripe. People can be in a "dry" season and may only produce little fruit during that time, whereas in a "good" season, they can produce many many fruits of good quality.
I hope this gives you some ideas of where to start. I will definitely keep you in my prayers, since you're having a hard time with the enemy. Just remember, the armor of God is there for a reason!
Your sister-in-Christ,
Lizzie
pebble said:
Dear Mr. Pebble,
I am glad that you'll be keeping an open mind and heart about the gifts of the Spirit.
I just want to start out saying, I am sooooo not an "expert" at all of this, I am only expressing what I understand and have experienced. As far as "tips and direction", the only direction I can point you to is God, and the only tip I can really give to you is that you sharpen your skills when you grow in Him. I suppose I never actually said how one would "test" the spirit within a person. But how do you think we should test to see if it is the Spirit of God at work, or Satan and his lies at work?
I think there are a few ways to test the spirit within the person:
Most importantly - "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God." (1 John 4:2-3).
B, Do the things this person is saying match what is in the word of God? If the Bible is the word of God, then whoever speaks and teaches in line with it is also from God. But if what they teach is not congruent with every word that God has given to us, then that person is not from God. Even if you have a pastor at a church preaching something, you should also be studying the Word to see if what he is saying is matching the Scripture, or if it is a manipulation of Scripture. "Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path." (Psalm 119:105). And the only way to know the truth is if you know the Scripture. So read your Bible, but most importantly, study it. There is a big difference between reading to read versus reading to study. You want to be a student of the Word, study it completely, so that it is written on your mind and heart (Jeremiah 31:33, Deut. 11:18, Psalm 119:10-12...for starters), so that you'll be strong in your armor (Ephesians 6:10-18), and so that you'll grow in your discernment. A person who can discern well between truth and falsehood will also be able to discern between good and better; but it is through maturity and knowledge of Scripture that you can sharpen your abilities.
3. Know the voice of your shepherd. The only way you'll really get to know that voice is by building a relationship with that person - who is God. I think that how you choose to communicate and build that relationship is up to you. But to me, prayer is a huge key in hearing and recognizing His voice, after all, don't you get to know someone's voice the more they talk with you? But I also think that prayer is not just about you "talking to God." I once heard it described as this: During the "good times", that is when you are learning from God, hearing from Him, growing in Him, so listen very intently and be a very good student. During the "dry or silent times", that is when it seems you are so far away from Him, but actually He's standing close and just speaking in less than a whisper." When I've personally been in a "silent time", the best thing I do is to just be silent and not seek Him with words, but with my heart. I search for His presence..because like I said, He's not far away, and being in His presence is good enough for me.
I actually spend a lot of my "prayer time" either just listening or being in His presence (every once in a while I definitely rant to Him though). LOL!! Lastly, the fruit a person produces is an amazing, accurate indicator of the spirit. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." (Galatians 5:22-23). However, this is one method that may take time to see, and one that can change depending on the "season" or time. Fruits have to grow and some can take longer time than others to become ripe. People can be in a "dry" season and may only produce little fruit during that time, whereas in a "good" season, they can produce many many fruits of good quality.
I hope this gives you some ideas of where to start. I will definitely keep you in my prayers, since you're having a hard time with the enemy. Just remember, the armor of God is there for a reason!
Your sister-in-Christ,
Lizzie