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Seems strange to me...

MarvelousMarvin

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Why is the non-Christian Western world so much opposed to polygyny, but accepts homosexuality as a so-called "alternate lifestyle?" Why is it OK for someone to hop from bed to bed in a series of "sexual conquests," but if a responsible man wants to enter into two (or more) loving, committed, lifetime relationships with women, it is considered to be some kind of perversion, and in some jurisdictions, a crime?

Historically, there have been only two ancient major cultures that practiced enforced monogamy - ancient post-Homeric Greece and ancient Rome. Both cultures increasingly accepted homosexuality as what we in 21st-century "enlightened" "post-modern" (whatever that is) America call an "alternate lifestyle," and both cultures self-destructed, at least in part because of a decline in moral values.

Guess what is happening in our monogamy-only American culture? Society increasingly accepts the gay lifestyle as being just as valid an option as living in the family unit specified by so-called "traditional family values" (more on "traditional family values" in a future post), and we are self-destructing because of a decline in our moral values. To quote that (in?)famous commercial, "It's deja-vu all over again. It's deja-vu all over again."

Ultimately, of course, the real reason polygyny is rejected but both the sexually-promiscuous and gay lifestyles are accepted by the non-Christian element of our society is because a polygynous lifestyle is a biblically-acceptable (and sometimes biblically-mandated) form of marriage (see see Deuteronomy 25:5-10), but the gay lifestyle is condemned as an abomination to God (See Leviticus 18:22) and a sexually-promiscuous lifestyle is discouraged in the Bible by requiring the seducer to pay the (now former) virgin's father the price of a bride and to take care of his "sexual conquest" for life (see Deuteronomy 22:28).

Why does the established church almost universally reject polygyny, wrongly condemning it as a sin that is treated as if it is "worse" than homosexuality? The complete answer to this question would take a small novel-sized book to explain, but briefly, it is because the Roman Catholic Church decided that what the Pope says when speaking ex-cathreda, and the body of Church Magesterium (tradition), are both at least as authoritative as God's Inspired Word, and between approximately AD 950 and AD 1100, plus or minus a couple of decades at each end, a succession of "infallible" Popes, with the approval of the various Vatican Councils during that period of time, increasingly incorporated pagan Greek and Roman marriage customs and Gnostic asceticism (which also came from Greece and Rome) into church law, calling the resulting abomination "christian" with absolutely no biblical justification - in fact, both the act of incorporating pagan doctrine into church law, as well as the doctrine itself, are completely contrary to what the Bible teaches. (See Leviticus 18:3) After the Protestant Reformation, which was sparked by Martin Luther and his famous 95 Theses on October 31, 1517, Protestant theologians didn't bother to correct that satanic doctrine, other than to allow members of the clergy to be married. Luther tried to, but the Church of Rome still had too much political clout (Roman Catholic monogamy-only marriage dogma was entrenched as secular law by this time because of the RCC's near-absolute political power for most of the preceding nine or ten centuries) and his attempts were not successful.

[insert tongue in cheek]
Perhaps correcting the false monogamy-only doctrine wasn't very high on Martin Luther's list of things that were important - as a former celibate Catholic priest, he must have been overjoyed to have even one wife.
[/remove tongue from cheek]

(BTW, Luther's wife was a former nun.)

Apparently, the non-Christian segment of our society knows more about what is biblically acceptable than those who sit in the pews every Sunday morning. If they didn't have that understanding which is lacking among the people of God, they wouldn't oppose polygyny the way they do, they would accept it right alongside of gay "marriage" and other "alternate" lifestyles, thinking it was just another sinful way to live. But unlike most Christians, the world knows that polygyny is not a sin, so they oppose it. You can be sure that if God says something is good and right, Satan and his minions will fight it with everything the have; and conversely, if God says something is wrong, the enemy of our souls will promote it with every means at his disposal.

To question "The Sacred Cow of Monogamy Only" is to be labeled as an apostate heretic (or worse) by the church and suffer persecution. How many of us on this forum have been asked to leave a church when it became known that we don't think polygyny is a sin? Even if we were living a monogamous (or maybe a celibate) lifestyle? Not for advocating that anyone take another wife, but simply for believing that doing so would not be sin?
It's time that the People of God study the Word of God rather than allowing those who are perceived (rightly or wrongly, but most often wrongly) as being able Bible scholars do their thinking for them. The Bible was put on the Vatican's Index of Forbidden Books list by the Council of Toulouse/Toledo in AD 1229. It was never removed, but the index was discontinued by the Vatican Council II in the 1960's. Since the Protestant Reformation, anyone who was willing to leave the Roman church has had the right (and responsibility) to study God's Word for themselves, but most Christians won't.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV)
 
PolyDoc said:
Apparently, the non-Christian segment of our society knows more about what is biblically acceptable than those who sit in the pews every Sunday morning. If they didn't have that understanding which is lacking among the people of God, they wouldn't oppose polygyny the way they do, they would accept it right alongside of gay "marriage" and other "alternate" lifestyles, thinking it was just another sinful way to live. But unlike most Christians, the world knows that polygyny is not a sin, so they oppose it. You can be sure that if God says something is good and right, Satan and his minions will fight it with everything the have; and conversely, if God says something is wrong, the enemy of our souls will promote it with every means at his disposal.
Had to read that one twice to work through the logic, but you're dead right. So-called "liberals" in society always support whatever is anti-Christian and oppose whatever is Biblical. They tend to have no problem with any religion except for Christianity.

On the rare occasion when they do criticise another religion, it's generally Islam, everything else is considered acceptable. Interestingly, Islam is the closest other religion in the world to Christianity (not that they are correct obviously, but unlike everyone else they accept Jesus as a prophet, and the Koran states that Christians are more similar to Moslems than any other people). The parts of Islam that the world opposes are generally things that conservative Christianity also finds acceptable (polygamy and male headship are key). Everything that is actually wrong in Islam we are supposed to be "tolerant" of...
 
FollowingHim,

Try this version of the paragraph in place of the discombobulatedconvolutedness :o :

Apparently, non-Christians know more about what the Bible says concerning polygyny than is known by the Christians sitting in the pews every Sunday morning. If non-Christians didn't have that understanding which is lacking among the people of God, but mistakenly thought (as do almost all Christians) that the Bible calls polygyny sin, they would accept it right alongside of gay "marriage" and other lifestyles that they believe are called sinful in God's Word. You can be sure that if God says something is righteous, Satan and those who follow him will fight it with everything the have; and conversely, if God says something is sinful, the enemy of our souls will promote it with every means at his disposal.

Is it any clearer, or does it still need some work? :lol:

Marv
 
I have noted a push as of late to link homosexuality with polygamy and " all sorts of perversion and wickedness" and yet when you ask one of these preachers to explain their point, they point to Matthew 19 and Mark 10, referencing the narrative of Gen 2:24 as a mandate to monogamy when indeed the point of Jesus' answer was regarding divorce. The churches don't deal with this because they don't have a good answer. My question remains to be answered "what is an effective strategy to proclaim this truth to the masses?"

I don't desire to spend my life defending or proclaiming polygyny, but indeed it is one of the most attacked Biblical positions in the church today. Those who know nothing of the subject will take the stand to proclaim the evils of polygamy, when indeed a quick look at their Bibles would find that our heroes of faith were mostly polygynous. How do we leave the fringes and the churches from whence we were cast out? I love God's Word and I love my brothers and sisters in Christ, but most simply will not listen nor will they let the issue die once it is brought up. It is a do-or-die scenario where a man who even believes that polygyny might be righteous in tribal cultures, let alone American churches today, is cast out and labelled as a false teacher who is dangerous, a pervert, possibly a child molester akin to homosexuals and other sexually immoral people.
 
Marvin: It's a convoluted issue, so I'm not sure it can be completely disconvovulated! The problem sentence is however the multiple negatives in the full sentence starting "If non-Christians didn't have...".

Mark: On promoting this, I think we just have to speak boldly. Too many people know this to be truth yet hide for fear of persecution. We need to cast aside fear and trust in the Lord. Small example: we've got the gay marriage debate in full swing here at the moment, and one of our newspaper organisations was asking for personal explanations of what marriage actually is. I sent them a very blatant explanation toned to get their interest and encourage them to actually give me a telephone call - if I can get a few words and this website in a newspaper I'll feel I've achieved a lot. They probably won't contact me of course, but the point is that we need to be willing to be supporting this even in full public view, or the world will never hear.

There's no one magic publicity campaign that will persuade the church. However the bold, public stand of many individuals from a range of denominations and backgrounds would persuade individuals, bit by bit, and the church could change over a few decades. If we can show the young generation that the secular world is teaching to be "tolerant" that they need to be tolerant of this also, many will then read the Bible to check it out, and the church's view will change over time.

But if they never see it they'll never realise they need to be "tolerant" of it and the process will never start.

My thoughts anyway, could well be wrong.
 
Martin Luther advised Christians to "Sin boldly!"

How much more should we boldly proclaim biblical truth? True, polygyny is not for everyone. But neither is being a missionary to China something everyone should do.

IMHO, God calls a very small (very very small!) number of people to a life of celibacy, a small number to a polygynous lifestyle, and the vast majority, He calls to a monogamous lifestyle. But because of man's tradition being taught as if it were biblical truth, no one in the Western world is listening for God's call to polygyny! (With a few exceptions, some of whom are members of this forum.)

I also believe that "The Sacred Cow of Monogamy Only" qualifies as a doctrine of demons.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. (1 Timothy 4:1-3 NKJV) {emphasis added}

Like the Reformers of the early 1500's, we have a battle on two fronts: we're fighting both secular society and the established church when we proclaim the truth about biblical marriage.

How can we educate people about the truth of biblical marriage? Speaking up in church, even in a non-confrontational way and in a setting where discussion is normally considered proper (such as Sunday School classes), is a sure way to be asked to leave, as many of us have already experienced. Martin Luther didn't want to break away from the Roman Catholic Church; he wanted to reform it from within. But he was excommunicated, and if his friends had not kidnapped him and hidden him out for several months, he would have been another dead martyr instead of a live reformer. Maybe we need another Martin Luther to lead the Continuation of the Reformation. To quote Ben Franklin at the signing of the Declaration of Independence:
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
 
I'm not certain that liberals are against polygamy or at least not all liberals. One of the problems with applying labels.
Here are some words I think I would hear from those who are less conservative. I believe that consenting adults should be able to marry whom they want. What many have not considered is that this also includes polygamy. In their minds they phrase it that way in order to cover same sex relationships but forget or choose to ignore that this includes all forms of polygamy and more. Now, I could be wrong about people not recognizing what they're actually saying with such statements.
That's just my 2 cents.

From a perspective of freedom to make choices and accepting the consequences, whatever they may be, I generally agree that consenting adults should be able to make those choices even though I personally wouldn't make them due to my belief system. I'm not 100% certain that I'm comfortable with that wording because it opens even other doors... so I'll need to ponder that some more.
 
Chris: You may be onto something.

Changing the public's perception and level of acceptance is all about education, correct? And education requires different tactics for different audiences.

Why? Because you gotta get their head open before they'll listen. And they gotta be listening favorably to your basic theorem (Let consenting adults alone to establish relationships according to their own consciences0 before you can move towards a greater specific (PM).

The progressive logic makes sense to me anyway.
 
chris said:
I'm not certain that liberals are against polygamy or at least not all liberals. One of the problems with applying labels.
Here are some words I think I would hear from those who are less conservative. I believe that consenting adults should be able to marry whom they want. What many have not considered is that this also includes polygamy. .

Actually I think that especially since Sister Wives, more liberal minded people are including Polygamy, though they often question why it can't be Polyandry also (though I think the Sister wives women have given reasonable answers as to why it is not for them and their answers have been well received). On the contrary, I have received myself and have observed elsewhere that there is vastly more hostility and lack of acceptance amongst conservative minded people, especially those who claim to be Christian.

B
 
Bels,
I agree with your statement that conservative Christians in particular seem to be very hostile with regard to marriage. Likely because they've bought into the traditional myth of marriage being only for one man to one woman. Anything outside of that is considered sin even though for some ideas like one man to more than one woman they can't prove that it is indeed sin.
I also think there may be a bit of holier than thou complex going on. What I mean by this is the feeling of superiority or smugness that can come from when one believes that they are absolutely so correct that they are the moral authority on this and that God surely considers them more righteous than anyone else because they have correctly discerned God's path and are walking on it.
I only speak of this because I are errr I mean were one. Hopefully that is mostly in the past.

Lastly, funny how only David was called a man after God's own heart... never seen anyone is recent history receive that title... and he committed adultery so I can only imagine how high the bar must be??
Something for those of us who claim to be Christians to consider.
 
Chris,

David was called a man after God's own heart because, when confronted with his sin (2 Samuel 12:7), he 'fessed up and repented (2 Samuel 12:13). But the "holier than thou" crowd conveniently ignores the fact that he was never confronted with what they call his "sin" of polygyny. In fact, God, through the prophet Nathan, told David, "I gave you wives, and if that had not been enough, I would have given you more. So why did you steal another man's wife?" (The "MarvelousMarvin Slightly Abridged And Emphasised Version" - God also listed other things He had given to David.) (2 Samuel 12:8-9)

Then, too, don't forget about God's two wives. (Ezekial ch. 23, Jeremiah 3:6-14, 31:31-34). Do those "holier than thou" people really want to accuse our Creator of sin? Being charitable and giving them the benefit of the doubt (which is more than they give us), I must say that they either have not read those passages in Ezekiel and Jeremiah, or they don't understand what the prophets said. God would not tell us that something is a sin, then portray Himself as doing that very thing - not even metaphorically.

Another truth you can share if you find someone who is willing to have a rational discussion is this: God is not at all shy about telling us what actions (and omissions) He defines as sin. For example, he doesn't make us infer that murder is wrong because we read about Cain being punished for killing Abel, He tells us in plain English (well, OK, plain Hebrew translated to plain English), " לא תרצח׃" - "You shall not murder." (Exodus 20:13, Deuteronomy 5:17; see also Genesis 9:6)

But the "holier-than-thou" crowd would have us believe that we must infer God's "law" that monogamy is the only acceptable form of marriage by reading about Lamech, who they call an evil man, being the first mentioned polygynist - so therefore, since polygyny was first mentioned in connection with an evil man, it must be sin. Or (and this one really makes me scratch my head) since God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Eve and Sally, monogamy must be God's standard for marriage. They seem to forget that before God said of His creation, "It is very good" (see Genesis 1:31), Adam was married to every available woman on the planet.

Where is the commandment from God that says, "You shall not commit polygyny?" As a matter of fact, God regulates polygyny, He doesn't prohibit it. (See Exodus 21:10, Deuteronomy 21:15-17) He also requires polygyny under certain circumstances. (See Exodus 22:16-17, Deuteronomy 22:28-29, Deuteronomy 25:5 - there is no exception made if the man already has a wife. Also, Jesus did not repeal Deuteronomy 25:5 when the Sadducees asked him about levirate marriage and the resurrection in the synoptic passages of Matthew 22:23-30, Luke 20:27-36, and Mark 12:18-25.)

The biggest problem is finding Christians who really want to know and understand God's Word. Every Christian says they do, but when we challenge their pet dogma, most don't want to hear it.

But never give up. God's Truth will win in the end.
 
PolyDoc,
I believe I agree with everything you wrote. :) Now where do you find the rational people of which you speak?? :lol:
 
chris said:
Now where do you find the rational people of which you speak?? :lol:

That's easy! Right here at BibFam! :lol:
 
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