Seeking Godly advice as we move down this road.

[mando222]

Hi everyone. I am a first-time poster but have been reading through the threads here for a few days now. My wife and I recently hit an inflection point in what has been a many-year journey toward the decision to start to look for a second wife/sister-wife. I feel that I should provide some background before diving into questions so here it goes and sorry for the long post.

Context on My Wife
My wife was saved by Jesus after I knew her but well before we were married. I knew her as a friend long before we started a relationship. She comes from about the worst home situation that you could imagine with every kind of abuse physical, sexual, and spiritual from both parents. Needless to say, our 6.5 years of marriage were not a fairytale as someone can't simply walk away from that kind of situation without damage in the form of mental and emotional issues. To be clear neither of us knew about most of the abuse stuff till after she started having flashbacks about 4 years into our marriage.

Even in this difficult situation God has been showing his provision through healing and restoration. She has found some older Godly women and worked through prayer and their wisdom fitting a Titus 2:3-5 model. All that said she is not at a place where domestic and motherly duties are something she fully has the capacity to take on and we have thought about getting professional domestic help while she heals. If others with similar experiences are anything to look at God seems to work the healing over many years (Obviously I pray he works faster lol).

She does however have a very God-seeking heart and is a gentle and quiet spirit with the goal of being a Proverbs 31 wife. She seeks leadership and direction from me and holds a firm stance on maintaining Biblical submission to the authority structure God lays out for a Biblical household. I love her deeply and have a heart of compassion for what she went through and is still going through. Also before anyone asks, in no way is any intention here to replace her with a nonbroken model. She is has been and will be my wife until the day one of us goes home to our reward. I will always love her as unconditionally as Jesus gives me the ability to.

Context on Me
I grew up in a completely opposite household. My parents sought after the Lord with their whole hearts and it was their example that Jesus used to win me over. My parents, by closest description, are biblical evangelicals. They try to take things back to the bible even if they don't always reach the same conclusions I do. I can't call myself an evangelical but I would say my belief system is mostly parallel and I would agree on all points of basic salvation. In short, I would call myself a born-again Christian who tests everything he does against the Bible (and also prayer).

I have held for a long time now (since before I married) that polygyny was allowed as far as I could see in the Bible both OT and NT. That said I never really had an intention to practice it. I also don't see that Biblically it is more blessed the monogamy (I know many might disagree and that's ok). I have spoken to my wife a few times over the years as to my thoughts on the subject in the same manner I share other things that I am learning in my walk with my savior. Her initial reaction to it was that the conversation made her feel uncomfortable with the concept (understandable given what we are taught everywhere we have been our lives) and since I had no intention of proposing anything I didn't press the issue.

Fast forward to two years ago. I started to notice a heart's desire to consider this more seriously. I didn't bring it forward to her at the time as I didn't have my thoughts and convictions in order to the point that I felt they needed to be and at the time she was in the thick of dealing with her newly discovered trauma so adding that on would not have been the actions of a loving husband. In the two years since then, I have still felt a pull on my heartstrings but God had given me a perspective to wait for his timing. God's timing is always better and in this case, my wife's health was an obvious reason.

The Situation
This brings us to a few weeks ago when my wife came to me with a very unexpected request. She asked that we look together into what the Bible had to say about concubines. The specified intent was to take a real look if 1. it was allowed by God? 2. Was this something we wanted to pursue? Although surprised one of my great joys in life is being able to dive into the scripture with my spouse so we sat down and started looking. Since then we have shifted from discussing a concubine (or under-wife) to a full sister wife and it seems that God has put it on both of our hearts that this is the direction we should pursue. We don't have all the answers but we do understand enough to realize this isn't about fixing any issues with us or our marriage (our marriage is actually very rich and strong) and that is very much not the intent. I also realize that it will take much more patience and effort from me than a single wife would. On my wife's part, she has developed what I can only describe as a deep desire to see this through. She knows she has some issues around another woman sleeping with her husband and a few other things but she has taken it upon herself to seek help from the Lord through prayer and supplication. (I didn't mention this before but her kind, God-seeking, caring heart was what drew me to her initially).

If you made it this far thanks for sticking with it.

The Questions
1. I know that our family and church family will disapprove of what we are doing. This could result is us being kicked out of our church and broken relationships with family. How does one handle this?

2. I want to do my best to love each wife as she should be loved by her husband under God. How do you handle conflict between the two or more wives? Is jealousy an everyday occurrence or is this just a matter of maturity?

3. How does the financial aspect of this work? Since wife two isn't a legal wife (for obvious reasons) the following topics come to mind as questions:
a. Tax
b. Health insurance
c. Legal ownership of major assets
d. Wills and last testaments/asset protection on death

4. Are there any resources that you found to be helpful as a Christian husband of a poly household?

5. As my wife is not issue-free (and understanding that no one is) is it enough to let the second wife know what the situation is before committing to marriage or are there more things that would be recommended? I fully understand no one is perfect but the domestic issues with cleaning and cooking are particularly going to put a burden on the second wife as she will have a much larger set of duties in that area.

6. Where do you find a second wife? I know whole posts have been devoted to this but I still don't feel clear on an answer. It seems like there are plenty of bad places to look but almost no good ones.

7. Obviously I am open to general advice as well.

Thanks in advance. Looking forward to whatever feedback and insight you all have.

 

[Keith Martin]

Thank you for the introduction, @mando222. I'm sure I won't be the only one who appreciates the in-depth nature of what you've shared. I've been married in the past to someone who was broken in two (or three) by profound abuse at a young age, so I know the challenges that can present for a spouse as well as for the former victim. It's heartening to hear that you have a blessedly strong marriage and that you've been able to utilize the healing process to further strengthen your bond. It's also great to hear that you've experienced your wife coming around re: biblical polygyny to the point of considering embracing it.

You are clearly in the beginning stages of what will most likely be a long process of establishing a plural family. I have one particular reply to make before making a statement that you may not like hearing. I'm an advocate for transparency, so I would always recommend that all significant brokenness issues be discussed up front before long-term commitments are made, and my reply is to your assertion that "the domestic issues with cleaning and cooking are particularly going to put a burden on the second wife as she will have a much larger set of duties in that area:" if you're looking for a servant to take up the slack of what you believe your 1st wife is incapable of fulfilling, then your best bet is to hire a servant for both of your wives. I have Exodus 21:10 tattooed on my left forearm as a lodestar reminder about entering into polygamy according to biblical principles: "If he is taking another for himself, he shall not diminish her meat, her covering and her cohabitation." [CVOT] It would be a mistake to interpret this verse as only applying to positive rights to protection, provision and due benevolence, because it also points to ensuring that a husband of more than one wife ensure that balance -- not absolute equality, not pure equity, not identical outcomes, but at least balance -- exists across the spectrum of how one's wife is treated. Generally speaking, one of the best ways to ensure that two women get off on the wrong foot with each other would be to expect one to do more than half the chores. I write, "generally speaking," very purposefully, though, because seeking after pure fairness is a fool's errand, and division-of-labor concerns are never properly a matter of everyone doing exactly 1/x portion of what needs to be done. It is part of our role as patriarchs to delegate family responsibilities to responsible family members through a creative distribution that plays to the strengths and deemphasizes the weaknesses of the various family members, including wives. But I would assert rather strongly that, if one's 2nd wife is going to be considered responsible for doing more than half the chores, generally speaking one's 1st wife should be expected to take up the slack of one's 2nd wife in some other realm; otherwise one has a recipe for bitterness and conflict. In your situation (which I don't know, because I don't know the particulars of what makes your wife incapable of carrying out whatever it is you've labeled chores), I'm not at all suggesting that wife #2 couldn't possibly be expected to do more than half the chores, but in a reasonable world in which a man demonstrates equivalent love for each of his wives, I suspect it would be incumbent upon the man in question to fully disclose to a potential 2nd wife at least as early as sometime in between after the potentiality became quite serious and before any commitments or consummation took place. An expectation that a woman do more than her share of the chores should at the very least be articulated before any marriage ensues, and it's only appropriate for the actual explanation for that expectation be provided to a potential 2nd wife before her emotions have been played around with to any significant extent. (I will also add, entirely as an aside, that, as a former psychotherapist who learned to regret the bulk of what is done in regard to promoting victimhood in response to prior abuse, it may be possible, depending on whether or not your wife has physical-trauma restrictions from her abuse, that breakthroughs are still possible and yet to come that will bless her with not being as physically, emotionally or spiritually paralyzed as she still currently is that will lessen the manners in which she is currently incapable of tackling the full spectrum of her life.)

In regard to the rest of your questions, I don't mean to downplay what you've asked, but some of it falls into the category of perhaps putting the cart before the horse, while most of it inspires me to suggest this: keep browsing through the threads that already exist here at Biblical Families. I suspect most all the answers are already there, and you doing the research will not only prevent others from reinventing the wheel but will exemplify the type of participation (once you sort through the personalities and the varying values of what has been posted) we will all hope that you'll demonstrate as you move forward as a member. Other than that, my suggestion is that you take the process one small step at a time, and, as you encounter challenges or confusion, take each new situation as inspiration to ask singular questions, to which brothers here (and sisters) will be tremendously willing to respond and contribute to you.

Lastly, and not to be entirely flippant, the answer to your question about locations for finding second wives is a place called whereveryouactuallyliveyourlife.com, also known as Real Life, or meatspace. Some small percentage of us have had success on dating sites, and others encourage the tactic of wandering around on the lookout for brick-and-mortar wife-exchange shops in quaint villages far outside the cities, but most of the men in this organization who have ended up with plural families have encountered their 2nd or 3rd wives simply through the natural course of living their lives according to their guiding principles. Sometimes it's just as simple as becoming one's own greatest marketing consultant by becoming a strong patriarch, making certain that one takes proper care of his current wife, all the while becoming a family so compelling that other women are overwhelmed with the sense that they want to be part of that. And sometimes relationships just spring up out of nowhere, seemingly without any encouragement -- but rarely is it a matter of picking a woman out of a sea of dating profiles as if she were an entree on a spouse menu.

 

[mando222]

Thank you for the introduction, @mando222. I'm sure I won't be the only one who appreciates the in-depth nature of what you've shared. I've been married in the past to someone who was broken in two (or three) by profound abuse at a young age, so I know the challenges that can present for a spouse as well as for the former victim. It's heartening to hear that you have a blessedly strong marriage and that you've been able to utilize the healing process to further strengthen your bond. It's also great to hear that you've experienced your wife coming around re: biblical polygyny to the point of considering embracing it.
...
in this organization who have ended up with plural families have encountered their 2nd or 3rd wives simply through the natural course of living their lives according to their guiding principles. Sometimes it's just as simple as becoming one's own greatest marketing consultant by becoming a strong patriarch, making certain that one takes proper care of his current wife, all the while becoming a family so compelling that other women are overwhelmed with the sense that they want to be part of that. And sometimes relationships just spring up out of nowhere, seemingly without any encouragement -- but rarely is it a matter of picking a woman out of a sea of dating profiles as if she were an entree on a spouse menu.

Thanks for responding. Definitely some good thoughts in there to digest.

On the point of division of chores in the household, I guess a bit more context never hurt. Some things she can do fine and others are debilitating as they either cause flashbacks (taking her back to the abuse) or switchs (it sounds like you might have some context for understanding that. Her number is a fair bit higher than the one you cited). So it doesn't end up being a lack of desire to do the task but rather more like getting punched in the face till you fall over every time you try.

Just to clarify, I am not looking for a second wife to be a workhorse or anything to that effect. My worry has been more around that happening by accident. Also couldn't agree more on being upfront on the reality of the situation before taking things too far with a prospective spouse. Trusting God for the right person to come along to fit into an admittedly unique family. For my part, I totally agree about the role of the husband would definitely need to find a way to divide tasks so as to play to each person's strengths while helping to cover shortcomings.

Really appreciate the reply.

 

[FollowingHim]

Welcome to the forum! Great questions, I won't try and answer them all right now (if you use the search box top right of the page to look through the forum you'll find lots of answers there also), but here's a quick comment on a couple:

1. I know that our family and church family will disapprove of what we are doing. This could result is us being kicked out of our church and broken relationships with family. How does one handle this?

You are likely to be kicked out of church simply for believing this is acceptable, not just for practicing it (it has happened to many of us). Don't talk too much about it until and unless you're ready to handle that. Pray for God to give you the words to say and the wisdom not to say them unless it's the right time. This is only one of thousands of theological disputes, there is no need to become a one-issue person preaching it to everybody and losing all fellowship over it. But if you feel you should speak, do so boldly and accept whatever consequences may come as God's intended next steps for your life.

If you get kicked out of a church over this, it will probably ultimately be because God wants you somewhere else, but you weren't going to actually go unless you were kicked.

6. Where do you find a second wife? I know whole posts have been devoted to this but I still don't feel clear on an answer. It seems like there are plenty of bad places to look but almost no good ones.

Don't bother looking at this stage. Everyone who has just come to agreement with their wife that this is acceptable jumps to the conclusion that they should try and actually do it ASAP. Don't. You will have more things to learn on this journey first.

Wives come from God.

If He intends for you to marry another tomorrow, He'll drop her in your lap in real life. If He wants you to find her on a dating site, He'll make it clear somehow that He wants you to sign up (though that is highly improbable). But if He intends for you to marry another in 10 years time, there's no point spending the next 10 years wasting tonnes of effort seeking someone whom you simply won't meet until God intends anyway. Relax, live life, and just keep your eyes open so you spot her if she turns up. If God intends it to happen it will happen.

 

[mando222]

Welcome to the forum! Great questions, I won't try and answer them all right now (if you use the search box top right of the page to look through the forum you'll find lots of answers there also), but here's a quick comment on a couple:
...
If He intends for you to marry another tomorrow, He'll drop her in your lap in real life. If He wants you to find her on a dating site, He'll make it clear somehow that He wants you to sign up (though that is highly improbable). But if He intends for you to marry another in 10 years time, there's no point spending the next 10 years wasting tonnes of effort seeking someone whom you simply won't meet until God intends anyway. Relax, live life, and just keep your eyes open so you spot her if she turns up. If God intends it to happen it will happen.

Thanks for the reply. A few thoughts on the first point. Really good encouragement. I have talked with some pasters in the past on this and the discussion always goes pretty much the same way. I have never taken a position of fully advocating for it but more of challenging their position of divorce in the context of the position they hold on polygamy. Some of the conversations have been very constructive and most of the pasters are still people I would count among my friends to this day. That said they do not and would not approve of me "spreading this around a congregation". I don't know what my current pastor's position is but I suspect your assessment is right that I would be more likely to be kicked out long before actually getting married to a second wife simply for holding the "controversial" position.

I think this will require lots more prayer and thought. I try as a rule to not live in the shadows but open myself up for admonishment of those brothers close to me who see my life and take the time to build into me and I into them. To be clear I wouldn't look to create waves or discord or even change anyone's mind on the subject but the nature of the discussion has a good chance of leading to a place of conflict no matter my intention. In this case, I think my strategy will mainly be pray, pray, pray, and when done with that pray some more. Then wait for God to prompt me or provide an open door to bring this up in a constructive manner. If all goes south and I lose fellowship with my closes brothers in Christ as a result I will not hold it against them. I do and always intend to trust God to do His will in each and every situation and will submit to where he lets the stones fall.

On the second point, I agree that rushing things like marriage tend to be the action of foolishness unless directly led by God. I can say my marriage to my wife now was a very God lead path. Traveled much faster than my plans or intentions would have gone had I done it my way. I am totally open to whatever speed God determines to use. In this case, can not claim that God has put it on my heart in any way to expedite this process but I am open to all directions from him so if he does in the future I am open to it. I would be lying if I didn't share that my heart is filled with a joy that may come across as eagerness on this subject due to the recent returning of something I thought was given to God maybe forever. It is always good to have a brother help make sure the joy I feel doesn't cause my feet to leave the ground. I also like to understand the variables in every situation. I am a programmer by trade so my brain likes to understand as much of the picture as it can. That can sometimes lead to me asking questions about situations that others feel are premature.

 

[cnystrom]

I also don't see that Biblically it is more blessed the monogamy (I know many might disagree and that's ok).

Actually I think most here would agree with you in a one sense. One of the differences between Mormon polygamy and Christian polygamy is that Mormons believe you get extra points for having more wives (Mormons lurking feel free to correct me if I am wrong, LOL). That is not a Christian position.

On the other hand, just as in the more children you have the more that God has blessed you, I think it is a greater blessing to have more than one wife. Each one is a blessing.

Hopefully that makes sense and is helpful.

 

[cnystrom]

The Situation
This brings us to a few weeks ago when my wife came to me with a very unexpected request. She asked that we look together into what the Bible had to say about concubines. The specified intent was to take a real look if 1. it was allowed by God? 2. Was this something we wanted to pursue? Although surprised one of my great joys in life is being able to dive into the scripture with my spouse so we sat down and started looking. Since then we have shifted from discussing a concubine (or under-wife) to a full sister wife and it seems that God has put it on both of our hearts that this is the direction we should pursue.

I once proposed to a woman about 5 years ago. I think she wanted to be a concubine. She preferred to be a side chick on the downlow. I think I could have justified it Biblically if she was not sleeping around, but I thought it was important to know why she did not want to be a full wife, and to me it was a huge red flag. It was not really something that I wanted. I wanted a big, strong, out in the open Biblical family. I wanted my family to be a light to my children and other families.

I see that since then you have moved on to full wife, so I think you are making the right decision there.

 

[cnystrom]

The Questions
1. I know that our family and church family will disapprove of what we are doing. This could result is us being kicked out of our church and broken relationships with family. How does one handle this?

1a. Count on being kicked out. Be prepared to home church. Find like minded people near you if you can.

1b. You could lose family over this, too. You might start the conversation now, while you have no specific plans. It might be less threatening to them than later introducing them to your new wife. Hiding it from your family is not recommended. You might start by asking them questions to get them thinking for themselves.

You also forgot to mention friends. There is a good chance you will lose a lot of those too, if you have some. Same strategy there. You might start the conversation earlier rather than later.

2. I want to do my best to love each wife as she should be loved by her husband under God. How do you handle conflict between the two or more wives? Is jealousy an everyday occurrence or is this just a matter of maturity?

2a. How do you handle conflict between your children? It is not all that different.

2b. I would submit to you that jealousy may not be your biggest problem. Competition is. Jealousy is just a cry for help from someone that needs more attention. Ask her what she needs and give it to her. Competition on the other hand is deadly. Your task will be to get everyone working together as a team, your team.

3. How does the financial aspect of this work? Since wife two isn't a legal wife (for obvious reasons) the following topics come to mind as questions:
a. Tax
b. Health insurance
c. Legal ownership of major assets
d. Wills and last testaments/asset protection on death

3a. You will only be able to file jointly with your legal wife (if you have one). Nothing to stop everyone from filing individually.

3b. You might get one wife on an employer health plan. Maybe one wife works and has her own, and the other is the stay at home mom and she is on your plan. Or worst case scenario you just buy it.

3c. You can create a trust and share assets.

3d. Be sure to have one and discuss it in advance! Have a plan in case anything were to happen to you. Probably would involve having life insurance, if possible.

4. Are there any resources that you found to be helpful as a Christian husband of a poly household?

4. Know your Bible and know what you are doing and why you are doing it. Do not lose sight of that. You seem to have a good start to that.

The best resource for Christian polygamists is this site. The other half of this ministry is that BF holds retreats. It is highly recommend that you go to one. Seeing real poly families who are happy and functional at a loving Christian retreat is a real blessing and gets you past the hypothetical, especially for your wife.

Your wife may enjoy the ladies only chat on here. Women really need society and the isolating aspects of the lifestyle can be very hard on them.

5. As my wife is not issue-free (and understanding that no one is) is it enough to let the second wife know what the situation is before committing to marriage or are there more things that would be recommended? I fully understand no one is perfect but the domestic issues with cleaning and cooking are particularly going to put a burden on the second wife as she will have a much larger set of duties in that area.

5. I don't know if you need to make some big announcement. You need to move slow. Spend a lot of time together. The subject of expectations should come up on its own if you are spending enough time with each other.

6. Where do you find a second wife? I know whole posts have been devoted to this but I still don't feel clear on an answer. It seems like there are plenty of bad places to look but almost no good ones.

6. That is the million dollar question. I have been at this 10 years and never found one. The nearest I have been able to determine is that the God brings you one when he wants you to have one.

The subset of Godly women who are open to being a second wife is close to zero and the subset of women who are seeking out such a relationship is even smaller (but there are some!)

7. Obviously I am open to general advice as well.

7. You are at the right place, asking the right questions. Go slow, but if you find one, never let her go.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Welcome and good luck!