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Resurgence of Patriarchy?

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I found this article that encourages me about family life being restored.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/churc ... g.facebook

A group of pastors and former youth ministry leaders suggest that today’s youth ministries should be disbanded, calling the common practice of separating congregations by age for worship and Bible study "unbiblical."

The church leaders state their case in the documentary film, “Divided: Is Age-Segregated Ministry Multiplying or Dividing the Church?”

The film is produced by the National Center for Family Integrated Churches in association with LeClerc Brothers Motion Pictures. The producers released the documentary earlier this month online, and have made it available for free until Sept. 15.

“Divided” follows “edgy twenty-something” Christian filmmaker Philip LeClerc on a quest to find answers to why his generation is increasingly turning away from attending church. Recent surveys have shown that as many as 85 percent of young people will leave the church and many never return.

NCFIC Director Scott T. Brown told The Christian Post that today’s modern concept of youth ministry is a “50-year failed experiment.” Brown said that when he was a church leader in the ‘70s and ‘80s he could have been the “poster boy” for the youth ministry movement in California. However, he said he now feels that dividing children from adults at church is an unbiblical concept borrowed from humanistic philosophies.

“The church has become divided generationally,” Brown said. “It’s not doing what Scripture prescribes and is actually doing something foreign to Scripture by dividing people by age or by life stage.”

“The whole point of ‘Divided’ is that God has spoken clearly about the discipleship of youth in the Bible,” he explained. “Scripture is sufficient. It’s time to get beyond the age of modern, systematic age-segregated youth ministry. We need to put it aside.”

Former youth pastor Boyd Dellinger, who is now the lead pastor of Heritage Bible Fellowship in Fayetteville, N.C., is one of several church leaders interviewed in the film. Dellinger said that by all of today’s standards he was once a successful youth pastor.

“I look back and realize I did more harm to families than I ever imagined,” Dellinger says in the film. “I see that more as I look back because I was usurping the authority of parents, especially fathers by having their children’s hearts turn towards me – with their permission.”

“Today, I can make more of a difference in the lives of young people through the biblical standards of fathers turning their hearts towards their children,” he adds.

Dellinger doesn’t question the good intentions of youth ministry leaders today and their desire for youth to know Jesus. He just questions the method.

“We have to go back to what does the Bible say? There’s something fundamentally wrong with the church’s drive to say we can do a better job of raising your children than you can,” Dellinger highlights. “God has appointed fathers to lead their children; not for someone else to do it just because they have a college degree or some seminary training. That does not qualify someone to all of a sudden become the spiritual leader of your family.”

More than 750 churches have signed onto a confession posted online by NCFIC that points to the desire of having more age-integrated discipleship, according to Brown. He sees this manifest itself in churches in the same way it does in Scripture.

In the paradigm shift, Brown said churches would have “the older gathering together with the younger for worship, celebration, and instruction. It would look like what happened in Deuteronomy 12 where Moses commands the parents to bring whole families to come and worship and sacrifice.”

“It’s the only pattern you see in Scripture. You never see Moses, or Nehemiah, or Jesus, or the apostle Paul, or anyone ever segregating people by age. On the contrary, integrated discipleship is really an un-disputable pattern of Scripture.”
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I totally agree, I thought about that years ago. Although our church only had sunday school for the younger children, I still believed all should worship together. I guess a parent has a right to delegate who teaches their children, but children bond to their parents better when taught by them. That's part of the reason we homeschool our kids, another is so that their not brainwashed by humanism.
 
I did watch the movie "Divided" and couldn't agree with it more. If I recall from the film "Sunday school" was evolved when a church leader decided to minister to a group of orphans that were separated from knowing about God's love, because they didn't have parents to teach them. We still have a lot of children in church who don't have both parents in their lives; however, there are a lot of members that could mentor this children instead of "dividing" them into a special program.

I believe that we should constantly be reevaluating our programs at church. If they don't serve a God pleasing purpose, I believe we shouldn't keep doing them just because "we've always done it" attitudes.
 
John Whitten said:
“I see that more as I look back because I was usurping the authority of parents, especially fathers by having their children’s hearts turn towards me – with their permission.”
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As a former Sunday School teacher, I have found this to be very true...BUT I also found that alot of parents are only too happy to send their children off to the children's & youth depts. the moment they arrive at church...usually so the parents can "fellowship" with other adults. I quit being a Sunday School teacher when I realized I was being used as a baby-sitter.

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
it is part of the culture of victimization that we have been getting deeper and deeper into for some time.
we have given up our reponsibility for:
our own health, it belongs to the healthcare experts.
the education of our children, it belongs to the education experts.
our relationship with YHWH, we follow those who are the religious experts.
our families education about YHWH, again, we have given it over to the experts.
the list goes on :(
 
steve said:
it is part of the culture of victimization that we have been getting deeper and deeper into for some time.
we have given up our reponsibility for:
our own health, it belongs to the healthcare experts.
the education of our children, it belongs to the education experts.
our relationship with YHWH, we follow those who are the religious experts.
our families education about YHWH, again, we have given it over to the experts.
the list goes on :(
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Could it be called "socialism"?
 
Jim said:
steve said:
it is part of the culture of victimization that we have been getting deeper and deeper into for some time.
we have given up our reponsibility for:
our own health, it belongs to the healthcare experts.
the education of our children, it belongs to the education experts.
our relationship with YHWH, we follow those who are the religious experts.
our families education about YHWH, again, we have given it over to the experts.
the list goes on :(
Click to expand...
Could it be called "socialism"?
Click to expand...

no.
 
Isabella said:
Jim said:
steve said:
it is part of the culture of victimization that we have been getting deeper and deeper into for some time.
we have given up our reponsibility for:
our own health, it belongs to the healthcare experts.
the education of our children, it belongs to the education experts.
our relationship with YHWH, we follow those who are the religious experts.
our families education about YHWH, again, we have given it over to the experts.
the list goes on :(
Click to expand...
Could it be called "socialism"?
Click to expand...

no.
Click to expand...

I would call that socialism, so by default the answer given above cannot in reality be "no" because it just happened. The key is that this is done in the name of the people, without them being able (for the most part) to opt out of this, so it is by definition socialism. A quick examination of the basic fundamentals of socialism, or the planks of the communist manifesto will show that this country has been socialist for decades.
 
America? Socialist?

ROFL..... :lol:

Ok, whatever you say.

B
 
"this country has been socialist for decades"

I'm not sure how long it has been socialist, but I agree. I came across some information a few years ago that stated that when half the population received benefits (not tax refunds) from the government in one form or another this was where a country crossed the line into socialism. It has been a number of years now that our government has fallen into that category. The way the Democrats shoved Health Care down our throats (when 70% of the people were against it) is an obvious sign that we do not have a representative government. The recent debacle over extending the debt ceiling and the obvious non-fix that was passed by both parties is yet another sign of how much trouble we are in.

Back to the original post...

The first scripture that came to mind was:

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the LORD: "Stand by the roads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'

It seems that our rebellious nature gets us into all kinds of trouble...even trouble we don't often realize we are in.
 
I think in this day, patriarchy will only work if one homeschools their children. Humanisn and socailism is whats learned in public schools, at least since the 60s anyway, when they kicked God out. The same thing with many of the Churchs.
 
Jim said:
Humanisn and socailism is whats learned in public schools, at least since the 60s anyway, when they kicked God out. .
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Ermmm,Separation of Church and State...?
 
We, America, are in this situation of letting government "take care" of
our children in education, health care, defining family for us etc..
It is called Apathy, let Joe down the street vote, cause my vote won't matter anyway. It is the definition of socialism.
And before I get nasty replies, this is only my take on it. I have watched my children raise their children in the public school system. My oldest grandchild, who is 16, is the product of it. Early on "the system" decided he must be ADHD,, (that's like using the word colic for every discomfort that infants have early on) He was put on mind altering drugs so that he would be easier to control. Many changes later and 6 years later they found that he had a meningiocele on the base of his neck. The neuro surgeon said he most likely had headaches since birth. It is usually caught in the first year, and would have been found if they would have ruled out medical before dx. psych. problem. This is just one example. The state overruled the parents objections? Socialism?
How can we take back our lives and live biblically? How can the Father best
protect his family from the government intrusions?
What are the facts disproving that we are in a Socialist system? Just asking.
 
The idea was not to eliminate church/state interaction, but rather to prevent the government from creating a single government sponsored religion which was the case in England. There was one church in England and the government/church was the political entity that ran the country...very much like Islam operates as a theological and political entity. Our founding fathers didn't want the church to control the state or the state to control the church. You could look at it as separation of church and state, but when that term is used it typically has the implication that the state cannot be associated with the church in any way. It went from the extreme example in England to the opposite in America. Our founding fathers wanted something in the middle. Our aversion to a church/state political situation may be why there is such an adverse reaction to Sharia law here in the US. What has happened is that atheists and others have used the ideals discussed by our forefathers and taken them to an extreme. Our culture has changed a lot since our country was founded, and we have lost the intent of the original design for church/state interaction and few people are willing to educate themselves on the issue. It is easier to be on one side of an argument or another rather than tread the middle ground...so we have ended up on one of the extreme ends. Considering the diversity of the religions in our country now it may be better that way - otherwise they would fight like little kids over entitlements. Having private schools and colleges for those of a particular religious belief allows them the liberty to teach and practice what they want. What we need to maintain is the liberty of everyone to freely practice their religion...and the courts in the past have ruled that polygamy is not a religious belief...that is an intrusion of the state on the liberties of those who follow an established religion...so our system is far from perfect in any way...it seems that wherever the government is involved matters just get worse.
 
Thank you Scarecrow, that made a lot of sense.

Bels
 
Isabella said:
Jim said:
Humanisn and socailism is whats learned in public schools, at least since the 60s anyway, when they kicked God out. .
Click to expand...

Ermmm,Separation of Church and State...?
Click to expand...
How can anybody that reads this determine that there is a requirment for seperation of church and state? Constitutional Bill of Rights- Amendment I- "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
 
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