Question often posed to me by non-believers about God allowing suffering.

[LDremoved]

I have family members and friends that are non-believers. I also have many discussions with non-believers online as well. One interesting question they always bring up is "if God has a plan for us, why does he allow suffering?"

From what i've gathered- some of them just want to have a pity party for themselves. However some have valid points such as why does God allow children to suffer? Children born into starvation only to suffer and die.

Are there any references in the Bible that help answer this question? I only see the personal opinions of others when I look into this. I've been studying the Bible and praying (I won't bore with my own opinion on the subject.) But I'd like to know where in the Bible I can find a clearer answer on the subject?

 

[steve]

He gave us a free will and we too often use it to make bad choices.
Bad choices are where problems come from.

So our problems aren’t His responsibility, even though He will often help us with them.

 

[Keith Martin]

Human beings learn from adversity. One can drop in almost anywhere in Scripture and find this theme.

Clearly, Yah wants us to learn from the mistakes we make, and suffering is one of the more significant motivators.

Start with Genesis. Until Adam and Eve experienced suffering in consequence of their disobedience, they lacked sufficient motivation to learn. Everything was pretty much provided for them, and thus they lacked even sufficient motivation to consider the long-term ramifications of turning their backs on He who had created them.

In the end, it seems like the statement that always comes out of my mouth when people wonder things like, "Why do innocent children have to suffer?," is this: when we challenge such things, aren't we in essence declaring that, if we were a god, we would be a much better god?"

Enlightenment will come from asking, "What can I learn from this?" instead of from, "What's wrong with you, Yah, that you would organize the world in a way I don't approve of?"

 

[LDremoved]

He gave us a free will and we too often use it to make bad choices.
Bad choices are where problems come from.

So our problems aren’t His responsibility, even though He will often help us with them.

This is how I feel in my own life but I'm not a starving child in another country that never stood a chance to make a decision. Are you saying that the children are suffering because of the parents bad decisions?

 

[LDremoved]

Human beings learn from adversity. One can drop in almost anywhere in Scripture and find this theme.

Clearly, Yah wants us to learn from the mistakes we make, and suffering is one of the more significant motivators.

Start with Genesis. Until Adam and Eve experienced suffering in consequence of their disobedience, they lacked sufficient motivation to learn. Everything was pretty much provided for them, and thus they lacked even sufficient motivation to consider the long-term ramifications of turning their backs on He who had created them.

In the end, it seems like the statement that always comes out of my mouth when people wonder things like, "Why do innocent children have to suffer?," is this: when we challenge such things, aren't we in essence declaring that, if we were a god, we would be a much better god?"

Enlightenment will come from asking, "What can I learn from this?" instead of from, "What's wrong with you, Yah, that you would organize the world in a way I don't approve of?"

I can definitely understand this as a Christian myself.

However I think the confusion from the people I speak with is stemmed from the fact that they're constantly being told by Christians that God has a plan for everyone, that God can perform miracles. In order to persuade them into Christianity.

How can we expect them to acknowledge God's presence by only acknowledging the positives.

I've heard other Christians blame the devil for the bad things that exist. Curious what your thoughts are on that?

 

[steve]

This is how I feel in my own life but I'm not a starving child in another country that never stood a chance to make a decision. Are you saying that the children are suffering because of the parents bad decisions?

Many generations have made bad decisions, resulting in the problems today.

 

[Keith Martin]

In order to persuade them into Christianity.

My belief is that putting great effort into 'persuading' people into Christianity who are just as busy attempting to persuade you that Christianity is invalid is a general waste of time. Yah works on our hearts, and He even calls many toward His bosom, but converting someone with a closed heart is the equivalent of convincing an addict wedded to his drug of choice to give it all up on another person's say-so.

I've heard other Christians blame the devil for the bad things that exist. Curious what your thoughts are on that?

First, I don't know how I can hope to adequately comment on hearsay, but, generally speaking, given that the Adversary is a YHWH-created creature, whatever the Adversary does simply has to be part of the Omnipotent One's Overall Plan.

Again, though, it comes back to this: what gives any individual human being the right to feel entitled to a cushy-comfy existence full of only light, joy, Unicorns and rainbows?

And a question that circles us back around to many of your other questions: what percentage of people who question either Yah's Existence or the validity of His Plan for creation are females?

 

[MemeFan]

This is how I feel in my own life but I'm not a starving child in another country that never stood a chance to make a decision. Are you saying that the children are suffering because of the parents bad decisions?

Children can suffer because of parents and/or another people.

Did you know that African leaders received Marxist education during cold war in Britain? Don't worry, Great Leader knows that collectivization will raise food production. And of course experts know better than local farmers how to produce food. Nothing can go wrong.

 

[FollowingHim]

People starving in Africa are caused by corrupt governments. It's not a random event, but the result of bad decisions by evil people. God gives us freedom of will - and that includes the freedom for some people to reject God and pursue their own selfish ends instead. And when people do that, others suffer. But it was not God who caused the suffering, but the free choices of people. For instance, the choice of a government to invest in an army instead of food production, and then further destroy food production and distribution by going to war, plunging the population into famine and causing children to starve.

Our job is to spread the Kingdom of God, which if (and when) fully implemented worldwide would (and will) eliminate all such suffering. That's the side God is on and is working towards.

 

[LDremoved]

My belief is that putting great effort into 'persuading' people into Christianity who are just as busy attempting to persuade you that Christianity is invalid is a general waste of time. Yah works on our hearts, and He even calls many toward His bosom, but converting someone with a closed heart is the equivalent of convincing an addict wedded to his drug of choice to give it all up on another person's say-so.

First, I don't know how I can hope to adequately comment on hearsay, but, generally speaking, given that the Adversary is a YHWH-created creature, whatever the Adversary does simply has to be part of the Omnipotent One's Overall Plan.

Again, though, it comes back to this: what gives any individual human being the right to feel entitled to a cushy-comfy existence full of only light, joy, Unicorns and rainbows?

And a question that circles us back around to many of your other questions: what percentage of people who question either Yah's Existence or the validity of His Plan for creation are females?

My belief is that putting great effort into 'persuading' people into Christianity who are just as busy attempting to persuade you that Christianity is invalid is a general waste of time. Yah works on our hearts, and He even calls many toward His bosom, but converting someone with a closed heart is the equivalent of convincing an addict wedded to his drug of choice to give it all up on another person's say-so.

I know exactly the type of people you're referencing. It's a waste of time and frustrating as well. But even when it comes to those people i've gained more strength and assurance as a Christian. Even if they were only in it for the sake of arguing I feel like I gained a more solid relationship with God myself. It also made me more empathetic and understanding of why they feel the way they do. I don't go into these conversations expecting anything. Neither of us are going to budge for the most part. All I ask from them is they give me the same respect I give them.

I've also noticed in these situations how much actions tend to speak louder than words as well. Once i'm friends with non-believers, they can witness for themselves that not all Christians are what they think we are, they tend to open their minds and hearts a little at a time.

First, I don't know how I can hope to adequately comment on hearsay, but, generally speaking, given that the Adversary is a YHWH-created creature, whatever the Adversary does simply has to be part of the Omnipotent One's Overall Plan.

Again, though, it comes back to this: what gives any individual human being the right to feel entitled to a cushy-comfy existence full of only light, joy, Unicorns and rainbows?

I just wanted to know your opinion on bad things in the world being caused by evil spirits or the devil? I tend to hear this in the Pentecostal churches I attend. I find it interesting. They simply tend to blame the good on God and the bad on the Devil/evil.

And a question that circles us back around to many of your other questions: what percentage of people who question either Yah's Existence or the validity of His Plan for creation are females?

Hmm, curious why you're asking? lol. To answer your question though, my Aunt and a couple of female cousins are absolutely staunch Atheist. I'm still friends with two women that I grew up with who are Atheist as well. So in my circle of family/friends I know of about 5-6 females that do not believe in God. I have about 5 female friends that are religious. The majority of non-believers I know are men though. Not sure if that answers your question?

 

[LDremoved]

People starving in Africa are caused by corrupt governments. It's not a random event, but the result of bad decisions by evil people. God gives us freedom of will - and that includes the freedom for some people to reject God and pursue their own selfish ends instead. And when people do that, others suffer. But it was not God who caused the suffering, but the free choices of people. For instance, the choice of a government to invest in an army instead of food production, and then further destroy food production and distribution by going to war, plunging the population into famine and causing children to starve.

Our job is to spread the Kingdom of God, which if (and when) fully implemented worldwide would (and will) eliminate all such suffering. That's the side God is on and is working towards.

Are you saying that if everyone obeyed God and followed his word then suffering would no longer exist? Or that the amount of suffering that does exist is only heightened by people being selfish?

 

[MeganC]

People starving in Africa are caused by corrupt governments.

It's also caused by corrupt and ungodly cultures. As Western societies become less Christian and less good then we will also see more starvation.

 

[MeganC]

Are you saying that the children are suffering because of the parents bad decisions?

My parents made me suffer because they never thought to tell me or my brother to stay away from drugs. My brother died because my parents were typical LA/Hollywood parents. And then they got into drugs and both of them eventually died from the consequences of their habits but not before they had a chance to make my life a mess, too.

Ungodly parents come from ungodly cultures in ungodly countries. Children starve and suffer as a result and few people live into their old age because they die or are killed first.

There are passages in the OT that speak to curses being laid upon the third and fourth generation due to one's sins and there are yet other passages that make clear that God does not punish children for the sins of their fathers.

However, sinful and evil people can bring about a curse of their own and pass it on to their kids and future generations.

 

[Keith Martin]

Hmm, curious why you're asking? lol. To answer your question though, my Aunt and a couple of female cousins are absolutely staunch Atheist. I'm still friends with two women that I grew up with who are Atheist as well. So in my circle of family/friends I know of about 5-6 females that do not believe in God. I have about 5 female friends that are religious. The majority of non-believers I know are men though. Not sure if that answers your question?

Yeah; I could have been more clear about that, @LovesDogs. I think I was unconscious asking something more specific related to the example you were presenting about suffering. In my experience, those who make that argument are most likely to be women and then after that most likely to be weak men, but I think your general experience is probably quite representative, in that women are in general no more likely to be antagonistic toward Yah than are men.

 

[FollowingHim]

Are you saying that if everyone obeyed God and followed his word then suffering would no longer exist? Or that the amount of suffering that does exist is only heightened by people being selfish?

If everyone truly obeyed God and His word, then suffering would be minimal. Because all suffering that is solely caused by human action would be eliminated. And suffering that is caused by natural events (e.g. extreme weather) would be greatly reduced through not being inflated by human action - a drought in one area would not necessarily result in famine, as humans would approach it all according to God's instructions and ensure all were fed.

Until Jesus returns this is an unattainable utopian vision - but a vision we can strive towards, to improve the world to a certain degree.

 

[frederick]

Until Jesus returns this is an unattainable utopian vision

but believed ardently by the lefties who are trying hard to force their version of it on the rest of us.

 

[LDremoved]

My parents made me suffer because they never thought to tell me or my brother to stay away from drugs. My brother died because my parents were typical LA/Hollywood parents. And then they got into drugs and both of them eventually died from the consequences of their habits but not before they had a chance to make my life a mess, too.

Ungodly parents come from ungodly cultures in ungodly countries. Children starve and suffer as a result and few people live into their old age because they die or are killed first.

There are passages in the OT that speak to curses being laid upon the third and fourth generation due to one's sins and there are yet other passages that make clear that God does not punish children for the sins of their fathers.

However, sinful and evil people can bring about a curse of their own and pass it on to their kids and future generations.

I'm so sorry. Unfortunately my sister is a drug addict and I've lost close family members and friends to the consequences of drugs as well.

Couldn't imagine the pain of losing my parents as well, such as you have. The destruction addictions cause is astronomical.

Seems like you turned out a very confident, intelligent and caring person despite all of that.

 

[MemeFan]

If everyone truly obeyed God and His word, then suffering would be minimal. Because all suffering that is solely caused by human action would be eliminated. And suffering that is caused by natural events (e.g. extreme weather) would be greatly reduced through not being inflated by human action - a drought in one area would not necessarily result in famine, as humans would approach it all according to God's instructions and ensure all were fed.

Until Jesus returns this is an unattainable utopian vision - but a vision we can strive towards, to improve the world to a certain degree.

Unfortunately this isn't enough.

We need to search for all truth including stuff not in Bible. Math, economy, agriculture etc.... There are whole fields of neccesary knowledge needed for functional society, but aren't mention in Bible because they aren't needed for our relationship with God.

Let's start with something easy. What is justice? Easy to claim what God says. But, that no answer at all. Human perception of justice also matters. If rulings as seen as unjust then in vain is telling people: But God has said. People will perceive unjust rulings as excuse to screw them.

Let's not forget evidence collection for crimes. Nothing in Bible about this, but court can't any justice with sloppy work here.

 

[Michael Moon]

There are whole fields of neccesary knowledge needed for functional society, but aren't mention in Bible because they aren't needed for our relationship with God.

I would much prefer a society that

truly obeyed God and His word

than one that is good at math.

The fact is that the world could be a better place EVEN IF we all lived in tents and died at 30. Perhaps not a very innovative place, but better in terms of good vs. evil? Most definitely.

I also don't think @FollowingHim was stating we shouldn't explore those other fields of study. But the Word comes first, and IS enough.

 

[Joleneakamama]

There are passages in the OT that speak to curses being laid upon the third and fourth generation due to one's sins and there are yet other passages that make clear that God does not punish children for the sins of their fathers.

This is Exodus 20:4-6 The second commandment.
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

Strong's 5771 translated iniquity defined as:
perversity, (moral) evil, fault, iniquity, mischief, punishment (of iniquity) sin.

I used to think there was comfort in the verse that says "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" because God at least calls them His people.....but when you read it....the comfort disappears.
Hosea 4:6
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

This takes us back to the most important thing we can teach our children. The greatest commandment. It is good to read the whole chapter of Deut. 6 but here is the heart of it.

4Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: 7And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 8And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. 9And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

This matters because most human suffering is directly caused by sin, and one can only know sin by the law.

However, sinful and evil people can bring about a curse of their own and pass it on to their kids and future generations.

We just inherit the weaknesses of our ancestors. More is caught then taught as the saying goes. Now we can see that the individual's very DNA is changed by experiences. Our thoughts and actions are recorded right there. Our children literally inherit our strengths and weaknesses. The ability to play music, as well as the tendency towards procrastination.

Abortion is a sad example of the innocent suffering for the sin and indiscretion of the parents. The mercy I see in it is that the poor child doesn't have to live with that inherited indifference toward their own children.

In the end we each choose to believe that either our creator is loving and kind, or ordered a world of chaos and suffering. I choose to believe that He does allow suffering, even of the innocent, yet can and will right the wrongs in His perfect time.
It is written that He will one day wipe away every tear.
Since He can make us all again after our bodies are dust....and is a just judge....the wise still choose to serve Him.