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Polygamist, 54, killed in US Govt raid

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ylop

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An unarmed polygamist was shot and killed by US Government agents in a raid on their home several days ago.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/osama-bin ... d=13505703

The polygamist had five wives and twenty children.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/05/ ... aden.wife/

Also killed was one of the polygamist's brothers (unarmed), while one of his wives (also unarmed) was shot in the calf. Early official reports stating the polygamist used a wife as a human shield have proved to be false.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110504/pl_ ... t_killed_1

Stereotyping housing like the recent Texas raids, the polygamist lived in a "compound" and not a house, mansion, villa or estate.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13257528

No attempt was made to arrest the polygamist, and it appears to be a summary execution ordered at the highest level.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ma ... intcmp=239

The raid has been condemned by human rights lawyer Geoffrey Robertson QC as a "cold-blooded assasination" and noted a formal trial would have "robbed him of his martyrdom". By assasinating the polygamist, the US Government has given him exactly what he wanted, a hero's death.
http://www.newser.com/story/117784/kill ... wrong.html

The will of the polygamist has requested that his wives focus on raising the children and not re-marry, and asks forgiveness from his children for not spending more time with them.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ma ... s-children

ylop
 
So when will Obama be brought up on war crimes for murdering Gaddafi's son and his children? I found it interesting that they suddenly discovered a way to get Osama bin Laden immediately after murdering civilians in Libya. We have known where OBL was for years, but Obama needed something major immediately to draw the attention from his murders in Libya.

Here is the problem...Muammar Gaddafi is not radical enough. Gaddafi stated that Islam didn't need radicals and suicide bombers, that Islam would overtake the world with its population growth. In order to get a major regional war going they (US/NATO) need the Arab nations to become more radical. Watch what will soon unfold in Egypt if you don't believe me. The exact same thing happened in Iran. At first it is democratic, then the radicals get themselves elected, then they kill most of their opponents, then they convert the government to an Islamic state.

The death of Osama bin Laden may have put a dent in Al-Qaeda, but long term will have little affect. Just more political games for the ignorant public to feed on.
 
Seeking to consider things from the other side's perspective here.
Click to expand...

The perspective that seems to be missing is from news media coverage is the 'truth'. (Not surprising, arguably.)

Headlines from all over Europe, Israel, and -- belatedly -- even the US press make it clear that the one thing which has NOT emerged yet is a consistent, or believable, story:
"White House Grapples with Credibility Problems"
"What Really Happened...[the account...has changed dramatically over the course of just three days]"

The London Telegraph, among many, reported that the "photo released by the White House" which "appeared to show the President and his aides" watching the "action unfold" was a hoax; CIA Director Panetta later admitted there was in fact a 25 minute video blackout at the time.

The fierce "firefight" story was retracted, along with the "human shield" (wife) story, the claim of DNA confirmation (now it's "facial recognition" -- but you can't see the photos, much less the body!), the high-profile "mansion" claim, and just about every other aspect of the latest Big Lie.

Even CBS finally reported that three senators had been "duped" by a fake photo of the 'body'. I can't help but expect that a "body" will eventually be discovered floating somewhere, clutching a photo ID saying "Usama bin Laden" in English -- and the Amerikan people may believe it! ;)

Reminds me of the Murrah Building bombing in OKC -- where ANY examination of the damage -- reveals the lies: physics alone says the Official Story is a hoax.

And there have been no less than NINE "credible" reports from officials in multiple countries over ten years now that bin Laden is dead. Given that he was known to suffer from renal failure a decade ago, and that five years on dialysis was considered to be a likely upper limit to such a life (especially when he was claimed to be, at least before he moved to the Luxury Compound) - he's probably been dead for years, or living with Elvis. Evidently the new Boogeyman is ready for center stage.

If the Amerikan people are gullible enough to swallow this line of propaganda...what happens next is obvious. Especially since the media is already chortling about the "treasure trove" of Secret Plans discovered in the "compound". Expect the gropings to expand beyond airports...rapidly. Women, children, and eunuchs masquerading as men will be microwaved, X-rayed, and ultimately chipped in train stations, bus depots, museums, and shopping malls even before their fake fiat dollar completes the destruction of an economy based on equally Big Lies.

The events of last week make one thing utterly clear. People who believe this latest pack of lies from the Beltway probably believe the "economic data" about the Great "Recovery", too!

For another "perspective" (which examines the contradictions in some detail, and the connections) -
take a look here. Links to a couple of radio shows from this week:

http://markniwot.com/?p=583
 
Mark C said:
Seeking to consider things from the other side's perspective here.
Click to expand...
If the Amerikan people are gullible enough to swallow this line of propaganda...what happens next is obvious.
Click to expand...

The sad part is that WAY too many Americans will and do believe the fountain of lies that spew from the media and Washington. We as Americans should ALWAYS question information we're 'fed' from the govenment. The media is in NO WAY biased and was bought and paid for by our govenment long ago.
Be weary of the stories we hear and do the best to investigate for your own and form an opinion on what facts you've found rather than media spew or he said/she said.
 
ylop said:
I'm not sure of the precise qualifying criteria to 'deserve to be dead'?"
Click to expand...
Being human. We all have it coming to us.
 
Polygyny is bad for women. So the government can shoot and kill polygynous woman to protect them from the evil of polygamy, a fate worse than death. :roll:

I wonder how many children have been killed to protect them from (bleep) that never really happens to them, and in the process they get killed.

I heard once a police officer shot and killed a guy with a knife to protect him from dying of attempted suicide, I do not know if it is true but it makes about as much sense or more than protecting woman from polygyny by shooting them.

Did they kill any children in that raid or other raids? That would be good to have documented if someone can provide me a source of children killed in anti-polygynous raids.
 
DTT, don't lose site of why the raid occurred. The objective was not anti-polygamy. I certainly am not a "killing children advocate". I could however, still sleep at night if a predator had lit that compound up. It is a tough call but there are lots of tough calls in war.
 
It is a tough call but there are lots of tough calls in war.
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And since the "details" of this particular act of war came out, there is hardly a SINGLE detail that has not been revealed to be a lie. (No thanks to a lap-dog press. ;) )

The real issue is whether many Amerikans even CARE about the Truth any more.
 
rubicon said:
I could however, still sleep at night if a predator had lit that compound up. It is a tough call but there are lots of tough calls in war.
Click to expand...

Many people could sleep at night after "lighting up a compound".

Some would sleep with a smile, having received medals and promotions.

Others would sleep eternally, their crisp ashes blowing in the wind.

Try reading "War Prayer" by Mark Twain sometime (http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/warprayer.html) to see what war really means for its victims.

It is a tough call to advocate killing three families and calling it war. Still, it has been done plenty of times before, and will again, and done to suburbs, towns, cities and countries.

ylop
 
rubicon said:
DTT, don't lose site of why the raid occurred. The objective was not anti-polygamy. I certainly am not a "killing children advocate". I could however, still sleep at night if a predator had lit that compound up. It is a tough call but there are lots of tough calls in war.
Click to expand...

While I guess my comments are still true but unrelated to the Osama Bin Laden case, other than that the real story is masked.

It is a real injustice to go so far to kill a man who only encouraged the death of a few thousand while letting the planned parenthood top leaders who are responsible for encouraging the death of millions escape justice on earth.

So you are still right the media messes things up big time. If they were truthful they would be more like,"Breaking news U.S. government lets master minds responsible for the death of millions get away with murder, while chasing after some guy who plotted the death of only a few thousand. It is a sad day in U.S. history that this injustice is still ignored."
 
In the spirit of setting the concept of "Justice" aside, here are some thoughts: Is the death of an unbeliever less painful than that of a believer? Do the families of the unbeliever require less comfort or perhaps more? Does the "Comforter" not reside in the unbelievers' families therefore the need is even more pronounced for them. As God's children ought we to have even greater pity on those with no hope or no comfort? I find it curious that we ascribe value to the unborn and no value to the already living although they do not believe the same. Is all life sacred or perhaps just mine or ours but definitely not "theirs"? Is not God wanting or willing that all should come to repentance and escape the wrath that justice demands? Those precious little ones who have not drawn their first breath are rightly heralded but those who have opportunity to repent are not included in our prayers. Forget boomers or GenX or Gen-Y, have we become the Jonah generation- waiting for and wanting, or broadcasting (don't forget the soundbites)with applause the destruction of the blasphemous Ninevites? Be careful of our own shade-tree vine of American affluence and it's withering. Will we in our poverty then curse God for saving all the "wrong" people? There is sometimes little difference between dancing for joy and being jumping-up-and-down-mad. Just watch a two year old for an afternoon! toddler christianity, a thought for another day...

maddog
 
Maddog, thank you for sharing that profound insight re Jonah, I had never thought of applying it to modern society like that. Will we rise up and deliver the message or simply hope for the destruction? Funny thing is, while we sit under our pumpkin vine, the West is decaying, and China has one of the fastest-growing Christian populations. Maybe one day China will be sending missionaries to the decadent west? ylop
 
Things are always changing, I don't know what comes next for the United States but I can certainly see a future where the tables have turned.

Thanks for the insight Maddog and Ylop.

-rubicon
 
I am swallowing bile after reading some of your comments. I just wish that I could send your butts over to Afghanistan, plop you in front of a group of Taliban men , and see how open minded and loving you all are after they deal with you according to their radical religious beliefs. I think that your children and wives should go with you too. Ask them if women and children are infidels too. Ask them if there is mercy for your wife if she will not deny Christ. I would love to see your faces as they answer you. Your ignorance makes me sad.
 
Lysistrata, Please re-read my post. Setting aside the concept of "justice" for a moment... I firmly believe that UBL is in the beginning stages of an eternal punishment- justice ultimately served, courtesy US Military. But by God's grace and mercy alone I am blessed to live in relative freedom and do not curse the blood of my ancestors who blazed the trail of liberty in this the American Experience. Did they make mistakes, yes but they also set in place a course for redress when we do wrong both individually and societally. This liberty is part of what allows me the freedom from oppression and am at liberty to bless those that curse me and do good to them that hate me(and mine), pray for those who despitefully use me and persecute me. See Matt 5:44
Calloused is the mindset that says "Kill them all and let God sort out the details". Why are we then encouraged to NOT celebrate at the death of the wicked? Don't they DESERVE it?? Absolutely! Truth be told, I was quite pleased as well, complete with a little victory dance- ok not quite a dance but you get the idea. But without the precious blood of Jesus Christ, I suffer the same fate. Isn't that cause enough to be humble and at least utter a calorie free prayer? I am reminded of the OT story of a few lepers who came across the deserted camp of the enemies of God's children. After gorging themselves, they came to relize that there were others who needed what they wallowing in and said to each other "We do not well to keep it to ourselves, let us tell the others..." (paraphrased of course). In our freedom in Jesus Christ (His blood delivers us from the sting stain and stench of our own leprous spiritual condition), Let us tell others. If they instead throw curses and bombs(and that literally happens), it is to be expected. Does that serve to embitter us and make us again the servant of the father of lies? I am all for justice, but Jesus offers me mercy otherwise my own desire becomes my demise. May the humbleness that consumed our forefathers- Washington, Lincoln, etc., be ours as well.

maddog
 
Hi Lysistrata.

Nice to make your acquaintance.

"Swallowing bile", "send your butts over to Afghanistan" and "your ignorance" seems to encapsulate elements of USA foreign policy quite well, thank you.

ylop
 
I can't say that it is a pleasure to make your acquaintance Ylop. My son is currently serving in the USMC. I agree that we should not be over in Afghanistan right now. I think that our troops should be over here routing out terrorists on home soil and shipping them out of our blessed country and back to their "homeland" in caskets. That would be much better than sending our sons and daughters over there to fight on foreign soil and having our children coming back home in caskets. It is fortunate for the radical Muslims that live on our soil that they are protected under the same laws that we all reside under. It is unfortunate that my son protects their rights just as well as the patriots in our country. Our great land allows them the freedom to practice their vile religion without fear of reprisal as long as they are not harming anyone but themselves. That being said, we would still have to deal with them because the snakes slither over here and attack us on our own soil.

Maddog... ;) you are a tender soul. There is a place for you and your "turn the other cheek" philosophy as long as you are protected and kept safe on our soil. I am thankful on a daily basis for those who are willing to pick arms and protect what is right though. Yeshua did not turn the other cheek when dealing with evil. Thank you for your kind and well written reminder to be humble. I kept your gentle words in mind when responding to Ylop. I can be humble and loving and pray for deliverance for the Muslim people when I see their women and children being abused and mistreated. I can feel pity when I see old men starving. I cannot be humble and merciful enough to pray for men like Bin Laden or other terrorists who feel no mercy or compassion for even their own people. All that I can pray for is justice. And yes, the United States military is in that role right now and they are doing a fine job of it! I did a literal dance too when I heard that Bin Laden was dead. One down, thousands to go.

I know that some of you reading this post may feel that I am being too harsh, however Ylop opened himself to this when he suggested in a round about way that we should feel anything but joy at the death of a terrorist. What a farce and an embarrassment to have ideas like that read by people who may consider that polygyny is right. If I was researching the subject of polygyny and came upon a post suggesting that polygyny had anything to do with Muslim polygyny as practiced by evil men like Bin Laden then I would be supremely turned off and navigate away from this site without reading another word. I will say again Ylop, your post is a disgrace and those who agreed with him (even slightly) should be ashamed!
 
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