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Perfect Perfection

sharonr

Member
Hey, thought I would bring this up, to proclaim what Jesus was and who we are to be. That is Perfect. Yes I said and not afraid to say so. People just think that God expects lesser of us than he really does. You know apart of me is upset, because I hear this to much. "Nobody is Perfect". A lie from Satan. The deciever who mixes lies with truth like he did Eve in the garden. We are to aim for perfection. We are walking and fighting to get to the point of perfection.
Hebrew 5:8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
Hebrews 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weakenesses but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need.

Note Jesus became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him

Hebrew 4:1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have comes short of it.
Hebrews 4:11 Let us therefore be be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
Hebrews 5:14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses excercised to discern both good and evil.
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God
Hebrews 7:11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood(for under it the people received the law)
Hebrews 10:11 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
Hebrews 12: looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled.
Hebrews 12:23 to the general assembly and chruch of the firstborn who are registered in heaven to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect
Hebrew 12: 28 by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear.
Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
James 1:4 But let patience have its perfect work that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.
Romans 2:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seeek for glory, honor , and immortality;
Romans 2:8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteounsness-indignation and wrath...........
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
Romans 6: 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of god is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The law could not perfect us, that is why Jesus Christ was sent to us, to help us be perfect, the scripture says you have to stay connected to the true vine for without the vine you can not do nothing. His strength is made perfect in our weakness. Without Christ we can do nothing.
I know nothing, all of this is the scriptures, not my own interpetation. His word is living and sharper than any two hedged sword.

There are so many scriptures

Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 2:14 But above all these things put on love which is the bond of perfection
Thessalonians 3:10 night and day praying exceedingly that we may see your face and perfect what is lacking in your faith?
Thessalonians 3:13 so that He may esablish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

We are not to get to Heaven and think that we are on this earth to just loly gag by and think that we are gonna be perfect only in Heaven that is a big lie!!
Arent we the brides of Christ? Christ is coming back for perfect marriages and a perfect church. Arent the husbands suppose to cleanse their wives with the word to be holy without spot, wrinkle, blemish or any such thing!? So, isnt marriage compared to the church, as talked about in Ephesians.

Ephesians 4:14 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowlege of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ
All through the scriptures it says put off your former conduct, and put on the new man.

Pefect from dictionary.com
18. to bring to completion; finish.
19. to bring to perfection; make flawless or faultless.
20. to bring nearer to perfection; improve.
21. to make fully skilled.

Sin no more lest something worst happen to you, when Jesus healed them he told them this. Study for yourself.
May God expose the lies and give us truth, be blessed

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=6721296 check out this song perfection, its from my husband.
This is open for discussion for those who believe
 
THIS REPLY IS FROM MY HUSBAND

Well, I believe that the first step towards perfection is first realizing you are imperfect in order for God to begin a perfect work in you. If any one believe he's perfect he is jugding himself, and Paul said that he would never judge his self. I don't jugde myself either. To say that I'm perfect, but Jesus told the apostles to be perfect for your Father in heaven is perfect. So with that being said, every believer should press and have faith that God will accomplish that in you here on this earth. We know that Christ came that we should follow his footsteps. Well He's perfect. We are always saying we should be more like Christ. But yet we also say that we will never be perfect. There is alot of contradition going on. God would not place this burden on us if it wasn't possible.I think that in people's attempt to be holy, when they faill over and over that's why they say that.
But I believe when you truly surrender to the Father it can be accomplished. When you truly seperate yourself from the world and discipline yourself, and study, and prayer, this can be done. We have so many loyalties pulling at us and desires that come in and distract us when we are entertained by the world: games, tv, movies, etc. Not saying this is all wrong, totally but there is a reason why we are not obtaining perfection and the problem is solavable. Ask yourself do you really love God, and start looking at all the times you could have worshiped and went in the prayer closet, and seek the Father, but it was our will over his. It seems that alot of you have a love for God, but our focus should be to have a perfect love for God. He said if you love me you will keep mymy commandment period. How is it that we can have faith for materialism and money, which is all vanity. And we believe that faith without works is dead, We blieve that God can deliver us, redeem us, heal us from all sickness, phusical, and spiritual affliction, rise people from the dead. I mean look at all the miricles, but yet we don't believe God can make us perfect. I believe many of us should repent, for doubting the Father's ability to shape and mode a man or woman. Paul the apostle said "I teach warning every man to present them perfect in Christ". But everyone in Christianity is saying we are not perfect or never will be whenthat is not in scripture. Herisy and false, that's Satan trying to keep us from perfection.
And when I say perfection, I mean thre work that God does through you when you truly surrender. God is all powerful and morally perfect, and He can do it.
But will you let him
Do you desire God
Ask yourself that in every situation.
PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER
Followed by study and application, seperation from the world. Above all faith in God the Father to accomplish this in our lives. Not to boast and say I'm perfect but because we love God, and because we want to have a perfect love for Him and nothing lesser, I say that with much Passion!

Love you brothers and sister's in Christ. Willie
Perfect definition in Strongs concorrdeance
5046 to complete, perfect without wavering, to the end, irreproachable, blameless, entire whole
 
You are correct that we cannot approach God without being perfect. And we all fall short of that. Fortunately God provides a way for us to be perfect - by being washed in the blood of His Son. He lived a perfect life, a life we cannot live, then died taking the punishment for the imperfect lives of each of us. His perfection (righteousness) is reckoned to us if we accept Him as Lord, meaning that God sees us as perfect, allowing us to approach His throne and spend eternity with Him (Hebrews 10:11).

I agree with you that we should be striving to follow His commandments as well as we can. But we will not achieve ultimate perfection through this striving, we only achieve this by God's grace. We can become "a perfect man" because God accounts to us "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:14). Not by our own works, but by His great work.

Isn't it wonderful that He has chosen to love us so much that He will cleanse us and perfect us, even though we were once rebellious sinners? Incomprehensible grace.

I love the old hymn:
I cannot tell why He whom angels worship
Should set His love upon the sons of men
Or why as Shepherd He should seek the wanderers
To bring them back they know not how or when...

But this I know, that He was born of Mary
When Bethlehem's manger was His only home
And that He lived at Nazareth and laboured
And so the saviour saviour of the world is come

I cannot tell how silently He suffered
As with His peace He graced this place of tears
Or how his heart upon the Cross was broken
The crown of pain to three and thirty years

But this I know, He heals the brokenhearted
And stays our sin, and calms our lurking fear
And lifts the burden from the heavy laden
For yet the saviour saviour of the world is here

I cannot tell how He will win the nations
How He will claim His earthly heritage
How satisfy the needs and aspirations
Of east and west, of sinner and of sage

But this I know, all flesh shall see His glory
And He shall reap the harvest He has sown
And some glad day His sun shall shine with splendour
When He the saviour saviour of the world is known

I cannot tell how all the lands shall worship
When at His bidding every storm is stilled
Or who can say how great the jubilation
When all the hearts of men with men with love are filled

But this I know, the skies will thrill with rapture
And myriad myriad human voices sing
And earth to heaven, and heaven to earth will answer
At last the saviour saviour of the world is come
 
FollowingHim said:
I agree with you that we should be striving to follow His commandments as well as we can. But we will not achieve ultimate perfection through this striving, we only achieve this by God's grace. We can become "a perfect man" because God accounts to us "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:14). Not by our own works, but by His great work.

Hey We can become perfect through Christ Jesus. It is not through our own ability, it's through Christ. Jesus HIs son cleanses us from all sin. That's in the bible. With much prayer, seeking God, and putting off all evilness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. That's scripture as well. We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us.
 
FollowingHim said:
He lived a perfect life, a life we cannot live,

A life we can not live???? That is false, He came to bring remission of SINS to cleanse us without spot, to be washed and cleaned with his blood. He lived the example which we are now to live.
Romans 13:14 (NEW KING JAMES) But put on the Lord Jesus Christ , and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
 
It's alot of contradiction but why? Shouldnt we want to please God and do our best. He is the ultimate, awesome God, why are we doing this through the flesh instead of seeking God asking Him to cleanse us. He said Be thy Holy for I am Holy.
Do you love God?
He said if you love me you will keep my commandments
CHECK OUT THIS SONG, from my husband its not the ordinary gospel rap, its truth, a ministering to your heart and minds.
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=6729465
 
NeoPatriarch said:
Just curious, are you a true example of this perfection?

Hey even Paul said he hasnt' attained this yet, but he's pressing on towards the ultimate goal to perfection. And that is what I am doing.
 
1Jn 4:18 "As He IS, so are we in this world."

Elsewhere it says that our spirit has become one with God's, which surely involves perfection.

Perhaps we are, at differing rates, with fits and starts, in the process of giving our spirits access to and control over our minds/souls and bodies?
 
Well I know I am certainly not perfect. I make mistakes everyday even when I learn from those I will make a new mistake to learn from. Thus how we learn. I have never met a person who doesn't sin at least once everyday they live. Yes there are different levels of perfection, but no one is without sin and no one is 100% perfect. If we were we wouldn't be in this forum. We come here seeking friendship or answers some thing a perfect person wouldn't need. ;)
 
sharonr said:
Hey even Paul said he hasnt' attained this yet, but he's pressing on towards the ultimate goal to perfection. And that is what I am doing.

Great! That answers my question. I just needed clarification. I agree that we should all press toward perfection, as a result of our love for God.

NOT that we need to achieve perfection in this life to achieve salvation. That would be a work righteousness and no salvation at all, for it would depend on us.
 
NeoPatriarch said:
sharonr said:
Hey even Paul said he hasnt' attained this yet, but he's pressing on towards the ultimate goal to perfection. And that is what I am doing.

Great! That answers my question. I just needed clarification. I agree that we should all press toward perfection, as a result of our love for God.

NOT that we need to achieve perfection in this life to achieve salvation. That would be a work righteousness and no salvation at all, for it would depend on us.

It's funny how you say that we are never gonna be perfect, but there is many scriptures that say other wise.
Ephesians 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the eqipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a PEFECT MAN TO THE MEASURE OF THE STATURE OF THE FULLNESS OF CHRIST.......

We are going to follow God's word not man's opinon of the word.
 
NeoPatriarch said:
So did I miss something?

You said:
NOT that we need to achieve perfection in this life to achieve salvation.
What do u mean when u say that. Doesn't make any sense.
 
sharonr said:
NeoPatriarch said:
So did I miss something?

You said:
NOT that we need to achieve perfection in this life to achieve salvation.
What do u mean when u say that. Doesn't make any sense.
Sharon, that statement of NeoPatriarch is actually what Christianity is all about. Salvation is a free gift of God, not something we must achieve perfection to gain.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
The fact that we must not achieve perfection to receive salvation is clearly illustrated by the thief who was saved while on the cross beside Jesus.
And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:39-43)
This was a wicked man who said himself that death was the "due reward" of what he had done. Yet Jesus gave him salvation the moment he trusted in Him. This man had no chance to achieve perfection in his life, he had actually achieved quite the opposite. But salvation has nothing to do with earthly perfection - it is the free gift of God.

You must be very careful to separate salvation from earthly perfection.

1) The moment we accept Jesus as our Lord, we are saved. We may still be far from perfect, but His blood covers our sins, his perfection is accounted to us even though we don't deserve it, and we are able to approach God's throne.
We are NOT saved because we are perfect, but quite the opposite - We are saved IN SPITE of the fact that we ARE NOT perfect.

2) Having been saved, God works in our lives to draw our hearts closer to Him, and help us to live a more and more Godly life. He draws us towards perfection if you will, and this is a process that will continue our entire lives. But this has NOTHING to do with salvation - we are already saved. It is purely to allow us to be more effective witnesses for Him, and to bring more people to come to know Him.
 
Even Matthew chapter 5 does not tie together the idea of being perfect to salvation. You are imposing that on the text. The issue being discussed is not absolute perfection, moral or otherwise, but rather being "complete", and in the specific context, that would be loving all people.

47 If you only greet your friends, what more do you do than others? Don't even the tax collectors do the same? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

You seem to be going back and forth though. You admitted that like Paul you are not yet perfect. Do you now fear for your salvation? You realize that Paul, though imperfect thought death would put him with Christ.

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord

The same is true for us when we trust in Christ for our own Salvation.
 
1) The moment we accept Jesus as our Lord, we are saved.

That's not absloutly true. Faith without works is dead.
James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that there is one God, You do well. Even the demons believe-and tremble!
Jesus preached repentence and also believing in Him. Jesus Christ came to save us, and we must continue in doing good like the scriptures say.

Colossians1:22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-
23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away fromthe hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
 
Sharonr,

In the interest of full disclosure do you believe in any scripture outside of the 66 books of the Bible? Do you follow any modern prophets?

Just curious...
 
NeoPatriarch said:
Sharonr,

In the interest of full disclosure do you believe in any scripture outside of the 66 books of the Bible? Do you follow any modern prophets?

Just curious...

Hey NeoPatriarch I just follow my husband, God leads him, and I hear God speak through him all the time, and then that word is confirmed. But we just follow the word of God. As for modern prophets maybe I would say people who prophesy in my life is my husband. I do not believe in anything other than the word of God, there isnt any scriptures outside of the word.
But what makes you ask me such questions?
 
It has been my experience that people who deny the sufficiency of Christ are almost always non-cessationist. Additionally, they tend to be members or ex members of cults. When asked specific questions they generally retreat into vague answers,
attempting to sound like they have given the right answers.

Debating such people is pointless. That is why I asked.
 
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