Pallas and the Centaur

[Shibboleth]

Ok, it's a bit off topic, but I'm amazed at how well this Renaissance painting sums up modern western gender relations. It's entitled Pallas and the Centaur, by Botticelli. You've got the wild and monsterous male figure ("toxic masculinity"?) with his hunting gun bow, cowering submissively before the unempathetic and empowered "militant feminist". Thought some of you might appreciate it. This is from 1482 (10 years before Columbus sailed the ocean blue).

 

[andrew]

Interesting info at Wikipedia.

Following up on the 'submission of passion to reason' idea makes this just another example of the 180˚ oppositional 'logic' of the modern age. Male passion submitting to female reason? That's a hoot....

 

[Shibboleth]

Interesting info at Wikipedia.

Following up on the 'submission of passion to reason' idea makes this just another example of the 180˚ oppositional 'logic' of the modern age. Male passion submitting to female reason? That's a hoot....

I was going to add a comment along the same line, but was short on time. Thanks for pointing it out.

To be fair, it seems that wisdom has always been traditonally depicted as female, not just in the modern age: Athena (aka Pallas), Minerva, Sophia, the ancient Egyptian goddess Seshat... Even the personification of Wisdom in Proverbs.

 

[Mojo]

Perhaps it stems from the maternal? Sitting at your mother's side or on her knee as a child and listening to her explain all your curiosities makes her seem like a sage.

 

[andrew]

To be fair, it seems that wisdom has always been traditonally depicted as female, not just in the modern age: Athena (aka Pallas), Minerva, Sophia, the ancient Egyptian goddess Seshat... Even the personification of Wisdom in Proverbs.

Kind of a different question, 'wisdom' v. 'reason'. We could have an interesting discussion around why wisdom is depicted as female in classical cultures. But the suggestion that the man represents 'passion' and the woman represents 'reason' reflects something else, that to my mind is a major misunderstanding of the situation. Maybe the roots of feminism go back farther than we thought....

 

[PeteR]

Maybe the roots of feminism go back farther than we thought....

Yeah... like, maybe, Gan Eden?

 

[andrew]

Yeah, in a way, but I think we're talking about two different things.

 

[steve]

Yeah... like, maybe, Gan Eden?

I don’t see that what happened in the Garden as actual feminism, but I would agree that that story is the first story that we have that the enemy of our souls was attempting to subvert YHWH’s plan in humans, and feminism is just an extension of slewfoot’s plan to disrupt.

 

[PeteR]

@steve , I'll buy that... As well as agree with @andrew . It does all stem from there, though different prongs of the enemy's attack are further developed and refined as history proceeds. It is interesting that strains of feminism point to the Lilith story and that from the Edenic timeframe...

 

[steve]

Well.....there is that whole Lilith thing.

 

[The Revolting Man]

What the Garden Eden showed, among many, many other things; was the great danger of a woman desiring to decide between right and wrong. Eve desired that knowledge and authority so much that she committed the only actual wrong there was, one which ironically she already knew. Satan offered something she already had in exchange for everything else.

So I agree that Eve displayed the root of feminism, a desire in many women (and men too) to have ultimate authority.

 

[steve]

In Hebrew it is evident that Adam was standing right there as the whole conversation went down.
That he didn’t speak up to protect her from committing the sin is why it was ultimately called the sin of Adam. He allowed her to be the lab rat in the experiment.

 

[rockfox]

Classic feminism: strong independent goddess paird with a strong attractive virile man who is submissive to her.

And like this painting, its all fantasy.

So I agree that Eve displayed the root of feminism, a desire in many women (and men too) to have ultimate authority.

You see in the Garden several aspects of feminism. First and foremost is the base desire/temptation that underlies both: envy. Female self deception is there too. Also in both you have men enabling it and submitting to women's wishes over God's.