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Opposite gender friendships

So some of this might be personal opinion and some of it might have Biblical basis. Anyway I will just state the following, whichever it is.

If I was married to a woman, I would be ok if she had a certain type of friendship at a very shallow level with some men, who she happens to meet occasionally by necessity, such as coworkers, in a common project or ministry, etc., but avoids meeting during unnecessary situations.

But I would feel it is an inappropriate friendship if she regularly starts going to events with a man, such as lunch, movies, etc in which I am not present.

And there are other types of friendship that I would consider appropriate or inappropriate. And it could be completely non-physical and I could still feel it is inappropriate.

Should men follow these same boundaries of friendship toward women. Or are their boundaries different because they can have more than one woman but woman can only have one man.

Would it be appropriate for instance for a man to be friends with many women he is not married to but forbid his wife from having the same kind of friendship with men?


Would it be OK for a man to want to marry a woman who has never had a boyfriend but at the same time, have multiple girlfriends because of polygyny. Or would that be a heartless and inappropriate double standard if he wants to marry a woman who has never had a boyfriend (other than possibly himself, and even then he might prefer to marry her without dating the old fashioned and debatebly purer way.) I am assuming that he does not do anything physical not even kiss or hold hands with the girlfriends. If a man wants to marry a woman who has never had a boyfriend does that mean he should never have a girlfriend (or does polygyny change that?)

If a man really likes a woman who has never had a boyfriend but she is still trying to decide if she is going to be his girlfriend or wife yet, is it OK for him to get a girlfriend without telling her but still expect her not to get a boyfriend if she is to marry him? If she believes in polygyny but her and or her parents frown down upon dating and she suddenly finds out about his girlfriend do you think she would get angry and get a boyfriend or decide not to marry the man?

By the way I do not have any secret girlfriend at the moment. I am just contemplating if that would hurt the feelings of a polygyny believing woman (who he wants to marry) or if she would probably be OK with it.

I came up with my thinking about this under the monogamy only position. And it is as follows

I would want a woman to only be devoted to me, so I should go for a woman who has never had a boyfriend. And I want to be only devoted to her, so I should not get a girlfriend unless I am nearly 100% sure I plan to marry her (so I thought under the assumption of the monogamy only position.)

Since a man can have more than one wife, does that make my thinking about not having girlfriends invalid if I want to marry a woman who has never had a boyfriend and is emotionally devoted to me only

So I want women's opinions on this, would it hurt you if a man wants you not to date anyone other than him, even before you get married, but at the same time have multiple girlfriends. Would it hurt a woman's feelings if he rejected her for marriage only because she had boyfriends in the past (even though she did not do anything physical with them) but at the same time the man had girlfriends (who he did not do anything physical with)

I am asking because I would not want to do anything to hurt the feelings of my future wives. By the way so far [as of the date I posted this] (to a large extent out of my own concern for saving myself for the right women) I have never had an official person who I called girlfriend or who called me boyfriend. I want to know if I should continue to avoid getting a girlfriend if it is important to me to marry a woman who has never had a boyfriend, or if it is OK for me to have girlfriends but only marry women who have not dated anyone other than me because men are permitted to have multiple wives, but a woman is only permitted to be married to one man.

Also perhaps this whole discussion is silly because there might be multiple definitions of boyfriend and girlfriend.

Some of my wording might be incredibly unclear or even mean something totally different then I intended so make sure you ask me, instead of jumping to wrong conclusions if you felt something I said makes me look bad.
 
OK, I'll take a stab at this one...

My first thought is that in an ideal "Christian" world, a man OR woman would not date meaning no boyfriends or girlfriends in the romantic sense. If I could do it all over again, I would wait for God to show me who that one special man was to be and saved myself for him and him alone and I don't see why a man can't do the same for the first wife, then wait for God's leading if there is to be a second, third, etc., without having to "play the field" in a romantic sense. So, in that world, friendships would be OK for men and women before he/she is married. But, being that we live in flesh suits, most people (even Christians) do not do things this way and insist on dating.

I, personally, think it is doo doo that I am commanded to be shamefaced and not even allowed to have any friendships with males even with my husband around, but he is allowed to talk to women at work and have friendships with them, but that is one of the lovely things for men, I guess. They get to call the shots and tell a wife what to wear, who not to talk to, etc., that is part of their jurisdiction as head. I think it is unfair, but that's life. I think, again, in an ideal world, men would be more considerate of this concept and not abuse their authority and not be hypocritical.
 
seekHim1 said:
OK, I'll take a stab at this one...

My first thought is that in an ideal "Christian" world, a man OR woman would not date meaning no boyfriends or girlfriends in the romantic sense. If I could do it all over again, I would wait for God to show me who that one special man was to be and saved myself for him and him alone and I don't see why a man can't do the same for the first wife, then wait for God's leading if there is to be a second, third, etc., without having to "play the field" in a romantic sense. So, in that world, friendships would be OK for men and women before he/she is married. But, being that we live in flesh suits, most people (even Christians) do not do things this way and insist on dating.

I, personally, think it is doo doo that I am commanded to be shamefaced and not even allowed to have any friendships with males even with my husband around, but he is allowed to talk to women at work and have friendships with them, but that is one of the lovely things for men, I guess. They get to call the shots and tell a wife what to wear, who not to talk to, etc., that is part of their jurisdiction as head. I think it is unfair, but that's life. I think, again, in an ideal world, men would be more considerate of this concept and not abuse their authority and not be hypocritical.

Thank you for answering my question. This is a really important question. I am very lonely but I do not want to throw away my no-girlfriend status unless I know it is morally okay.

If a woman I was considering marrying had a boyfriend (even if she did not do anything physical with him) in the past I would feel like something was robbed from me.

seekHim1 said:
If I could do it all over again, I would wait for God to show me who that one special man was to be and saved myself for him and him alone and I don't see why a man can't do the same for the first wife,

If I understood you correctly you are saying that you think a woman would feel that something was robbed from her if the man she was considering marrying had a girlfriend (even if he did not do anything physical with her?)

Do I have to marry by arranged marriage/matchmaking/mail order bride if I feel that I do not want to have a girlfriend before marriage for reasons of purity described above?

I do not know anyone who offers these services and believes in polygyny and is Christian and will enable me to marry without a marriage certificate (ruling out mail order bride, because it probably requires a marriage certificate.)

Do you feel that it would be morally unacceptable to hurt (a) wive(s) feelings by having friends who are girls but forbidding them from having friends who are men. You mentioned hypocritical and so that makes me think you consider it unacceptable, but you mentioned he is allowed to call the shots, which makes it sound acceptable.

Could it be morally acceptable to do such a practice (especially if it is for a good cause that your wives do not understand) even though it hurts your wives feelings because they feel it is hypocritical when you forbid them from being friends with men?
 
seekHim1 said:
So, in that world, friendships would be OK for men and women before he/she is married. But, being that we live in flesh suits, most people (even Christians) do not do things this way and insist on dating.

Could I get friends who are women who I am not officially dating? If I just want someone to talk to because I am lonely and all my "friends" who are men, are not very good friends or in the case of the good friends I do not want to bother them because I feel they have more important things to do? Do you think if I did such a thing my future wives would feel robbed by my actions?

By the way if I had a wife or was engaged to a woman and she wanted to do that with men, I would tell her not to.
And if I found out a woman who I considered marrying did such a thing in the past with men, I would feel robbed (metaphorically.)
 
Hi! I only have a minute, but I just wanted to say that I do not see why a future wife would have a problem if you were friends with other women. I was never bothered by my husband's female friends; only the ones he had some sort of physical/romantic relationship with. Do you have a problem with a future wife being friends with men - strictly platonic? It looks like Jesus was friends with Mary and Martha and vice versa so I don't think the Bible prohibits male/female friendships. It just always gets complicated when strong emotions are involved and/or physical contact even as small as kissing - then, it goes over some imaginary line. I can't explain why, but it just does and speaking from experience, that is the stuff that threatens a husband/wife relationship.

Once married, a woman answers to her husband so if he no longer approves of her friendships with males, he has the right to tell her to cut it out and she should submit to that. I just think that so as to not be a hyprocrite, he needs to cut out his friendships with females as well unless the wife is involved. If he wants more than one wife, then his first wife should always be around when he is in contact with other women --- the Billy Graham rule --- a married man should never be alone with a woman. I think a man is free to do what he wants, but it falls under the "all things are lawful, but not all things are expedient" concept. I don't think it is expedient (and it's definitely not necessary) for a married man to have friendships with women UNLESS his wife is a part of the friendship at all times - phone conversations, meetings in person, etc.

Hope my thoughts help in some way!
 
DTT,

You have packed a lot of questions into this post. I will probably lump some of them together and maybe even leave a few out because at times I think it is redundant.

In response to the first question of is it ok for a man to have friendships with women in which he frequently goes out to eat, to the movies, etc without the wife my answer is this: you would both need to be on the same page as far as polygyny goes in order for things to go smoothly. It could be done with out the wife's knowledge, however there is a high chance of damaging the wife by deceiving her by doing things this way. The reasoning behind this is because the man is allowed by Scripture to have multiple wives but the wife is not permitted to have multiple husbands. A woman having multiple husbands would violate the precedent set by Scripture, as well as violate the logical order of headship (you cannot serve two masters=a woman can't have two husbands). Therefore I do believe that it is appropriate for a man to forbid his wife from having close relationships/friendships with other men (unless it is her father, brother, etc). I believe it is best for the man to be honest and open about "courting" other women, however it is not a requirement although it does make it more peaceful.

As for wanting to marry a woman who has never had a boyfriend, I think that would depend on the definition of the word "boyfriend." As for me, I prefer not to use the terms boyfriend/girlfriend because in today's world they carry a largely negative connotation, at least from my perspective. However, I think that the only way that you can really know if you want to marry a person is if you form close friendships with them. If you don't you won't be able to see the parts of the person that could be hidden from a surface-level relationship. Both the woman and man need time to evaluate one another to know whether or not they want to commit to that person in a lifetime union/bond. The way dating is done today is drastically different from what I am proposing here. In today's world, boy meets girl, proceeds to take her out a few times, kisses her early, and this undoubtedly leads to deeper levels of intimacy between the two. The alternative to this would be a relationship in which the two refrain from early emotional contact and intimacy until the two are sure that God is moving to unite their hearts to one another. So depending on the definition of the terms boyfriend/girlfriend, the answer could vary greatly.

In respect to the following:
If a man really likes a woman who has never had a boyfriend but she is still trying to decide if she is going to be his girlfriend or wife yet, is it OK for him to get a girlfriend without telling her but still expect her not to get a boyfriend if she is to marry him? If she believes in polygyny but her and or her parents frown down upon dating and she suddenly finds out about his girlfriend do you think she would get angry and get a boyfriend or decide not to marry the man?
Not to be overly critical of you here but I'm not really sure what you are asking as you have a lot of questions that are very wordy and don't seem to have a cohesive point. One again, I do believe the expectations for men and women are different. However, if there is no agreement from the woman that she absolutely wants to marry a man, I don't think the requirements are binding. Courtship is a time for women and men to be able to decide if the other person is someone that God has led or is leading them to spend their life with. It is a time of discovery for both and should be utilized as such. If there has been a statement of intent on the woman's part to marry the man, then I believe her close friendships with other men should be greatly scaled back and eventually disintegrated.

As for these questions:
would it hurt you if a man wants you not to date anyone other than him, even before you get married, but at the same time have multiple girlfriends. Would it hurt a woman's feelings if he rejected her for marriage only because she had boyfriends in the past (even though she did not do anything physical with them) but at the same time the man had girlfriends (who he did not do anything physical with)
It goes back to the definition of the terms boyfriend/girlfriend. I think in a way I already answered the first part but I will repeat myself. I don't think it would hurt me if the man I intended to marry asked that I not have close friendships with other men once my heart was committed to him. Actually, I would be concerned about that man's integrity if he acted otherwise. However, if because I had looked at/considered other men in the past but had not committed my heart to those men, I do think that it would hurt my feelings if a man rejected me solely on that basis. Once again, you don't know if you want to commit your heart and life to someone if you don't know that person. Knowing them takes time. I would understand his hesitancy if there were deep levels of intimacy with another man but if this was not the case it would be very offensive to me. I think it would be beneficial for us to eliminate the terms "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" from our vocabulary all together.

Hopefully my thoughts and answers have been sufficient to answer your questions effectively.

Have a blessed day!
 
seekHim1 said:
I, personally, think it is doo doo that I am commanded to be shamefaced and not even allowed to have any friendships with males even with my husband around, but he is allowed to talk to women at work and have friendships with them, but that is one of the lovely things for men, I guess.
i agree that it is doo doo, such attempts at control oftentimes are born of insecurity
i can trust my wife's heart whether she is on the other side of the country or the other side of the world. she has chosen me to be her husband and no other man stands a chance at coming between us. (of course, good communication between us doesn't hurt ;) )

as far as the rest of the post;
i am sure glad that you have asked for the opinions of the goils, cause it gives me a headache just trying to understand it. my hat is off to those that responded :D
 
I got confused.

I wondered what was meant by doo doo because I have not heard that word used for a long time

I thought you meant do do. Like it is something you really should do and important command.

But doo doo actually meant some sort of waste byproduct of metabolism, which was a metaphor for being false. Am I correct?
 
yes,
poo-poo
excrement
more than false; offensive
 
Since my questions/statements were difficult or too complicated

I want peoples opinions on these.

In some Asian, Jewish and Muslim cultures but also in some churches (I have only seen approximately two and a third one that allowed dating if people from the Church are present to keep people "in check") from what I understand dating is essentially forbidden except under very specific circumstances.

What do you think about the old fashioned idea, that matchmaking or "mail order brides" or marrying people you know but have not dated is a more sexually "pure" process than dating?

I have known several Christian Asian people who were married this way, and they seem to have better relationships with their family overall than most European American and African American people I know who were married by serial monogamy dating.

And I have seen most people who call each other boyfriend or girlfriend touching a lot.

I am not trying to be racist, I am referring to some (not all) people within the culture and not to their genetics.
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
What do you think about the old fashioned idea, that matchmaking or "mail order brides" or marrying people you know but have not dated is a more sexually "pure" process than dating?

I know a few Jewish communities where there is matchmaking is going on today. In some ways it makes some sense. IN many ways the divorce rate is so much less. However, the divorce rate could be several times lower for the relgious / obediance reasons and other sociological reasons.

There is even one Messianic Jewish group that has at least talked about matchmaking. The funny part on this was the kids approached the Rabbi, my friend, who then asked my opinion. The adults of the congregation were against it. The did not go through with the idea. In reality I do not have much a problem. I would like to see if there is matchmaking going on that either party could leave prior to marriage. I know that gives an out, but I think that out is important.

Think about Christians and the idea of courting that has gained some popularity and in many ways that is very similar to matchmaking. However, the couple does get to choose each other.

In my book does it matter? Not really. Are we saying there is only one to get a spouse? I think not.
 
Why is this so complicated with such long responses? Husbands and wives both need to avoid having friendships with the opposite sex. The husband and wife can together have friends, but friends on an individual basis with members of the opposite sex is a no-no.

Why? Most men have only one thing on their mind. They can't just be "friends" with a woman, married or not. It's total BS. I know this and that's why I say married woman can not be friends with men, single or not. It's just not the right way.

What about married men friends with married women? See above.

What about married man friends with a single woman? Is the man pursuing a relationship with the single woman? If so then the relationship is not "friendship" instead it's courting. Big difference. If it's not courting then the married man is just playing around and that's not good.

For me and my wife? My wife won't even go out with single women friends. Women who are not under a man tend to be rebellious and encourage even married women to be rebellious like they are.
 
Well after listening to these responses and thinking about this more myself I think it is ok for men to have opposite gender NONPHYSICAL relations with UNMARRIED woman, but that MARRIED woman have to submit to their husband in this matter in most cases.

1. Jesus had opposite Gender interactions (I think even some with married woman)

2. Even though it is ok to have opposite gender interactions sometimes even with married woman involved the husband has the right to refuse his wife these friendships since she is under his authority and most men are more likely to sin than Jesus.

3. Men are allowed to teach woman, but woman are more restricted in what circumstances they can teach men. {This does not mean a husband is forbidden from listening to his wife}

4. It is ok for a married man to "court" women so long as they are unmarried.

5. It is not ok for a married woman to "court" men.
 
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