MALACHI 4

[Beta]

I would like to hear anyone's take on MALACHI 4 in general and as a prophecy.

I would also like, more specifically, to discuss verse 6...

He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse.

I have come to understand that women who have broken up their family have likely turned their children's hearts away from their earthly father,

and how grave an issue that is from our Heavenly Father's perspective...


and men who have broken up their family have likely done the same, or have turned their own hearts from their children...

which is also mentioned as a serious violation of righteousness in this passage...


at other times men staying with their families also do not have their hearts turned toward their children but toward their wife alone, or other relationship,

or outward of their own household, such as their work,


Western society having exalted the sexual and romantic relationship above the patriarchal or father-child relationship... and work ethic also exalted similarly,

and our whole nation - America (for one), is so flooded with this kind of sin,


COULD THERE BE SUCH A CURSE UPON OUR LAND (& ITS CITIZENS) BECAUSE OF IT?

 

[Beta]

It also occurs to me that the command given to Moses:

"HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER"

is given with a promise of long life on the earth...

which is exactly relative to the curse of life given in Malachi 4:6

and does not seem coincidental to me but directly related!


Is the disrespect or dishonor of the Heavenly Father's established patriarchal/matriarchal society

so serious a violation of the earth as to produce a curse?

 

[Anonymous]

Very interesting! I think that the Lord's command to honor your father and mother can bring great joy annd blessing, just as dishonoring this command can bring terrible repurcussions.

Conversely, I believe that our society is reaping the whirlwind of fathers not turning their hearts towards their children. God give us those commandments for a reason, and he expects them to be obeyed.

Putting those two verses together was very helpful. Thanks!

 

[CecilW]

It would seem you are onto something Ms. Beta. Let me add another verse, 'stumbled across' this morning:

Cursed is the one who treats his father or his mother with contempt.

Pretty hard to misunderstand that!

One of the raging epidemics in the USA at this time is diabetes. There is a pastor with a strong healing ministry in South GA who has done a massive study on the spiritual origins of various diseases. Care to know what he has found to be prevalently associated with diabetes? Parental rejection, especially by the father!!!

It would seem that that curse is already striking -- and God is planting the seeds of its healing through a restored undestanding of Biblical Families at whatever level folks are willing to accept, whether it be a book at their Christian book store, a radio talk show, Promise Keepers (are they still around?) or BiblicalFamilies.org. *grin*

 

[Beta]

Thanks for the additional verse Cecil! It's great to put heads together and make a full study - I would so love to sit around a table with all of 'y'all' and make a lifestyle of it. Yeah I'm a dreamer. But this is the next best thing, and I do appreciate it. The Lord doesn't give us insights to put in a basket under our bed or hide under a bushel... that USED to be the purpose of church!

Where there is no revelation, the people cast off restraint;
but blessed is he who keeps the law. Proverbs 29:18

Revelation or vision... seems to be the counter to keeping the law... I take it to mean no understanding or insight into doing what pleases the Lord or is asked of us by the Lord. Honor of father and mother... this is what is supposed to be done. Not doing it is only what someone without understanding or vision or revelation will be able to do.

Beta

 

[lutherangirl]

Very interesting! I think that the Lord's command to honor your father and mother can bring great joy annd blessing, just as dishonoring this command can bring terrible repurcussions.

I know that because I'm married with my own family now that I fall under my husband's cover; however, I still have to honor my father and mother. If they are against plural marriage, would I dishonor them by being in a plural marriage?

 

[Anonymous]

Very interesting! I think that the Lord's command to honor your father and mother can bring great joy annd blessing, just as dishonoring this command can bring terrible repurcussions.

I know that because I'm married with my own family now that I fall under my husband's cover; however, I still have to honor my father and mother. If they are against plural marriage, would I dishonor them by being in a plural marriage?

As an adult child, honoring your parents doesn't mean always doing what they want or think is best. If you are respectful and humble about your beliefs, then the Lord will bless your actions. We are required to honor the position of authority, whether or not the person filling that position seems worthy of the honor. Even the most godless parent (not yours!) can be honored in some way, otherwise the Lord would not have commanded it.

 

[Beta]

Yes, deut30, I agree. My son has dealt with having an unsaved father in the same way, knowing that you can't always do what they say, especially when it goes against the Lord, but being pleasing to God, a righteous person, is the best honor you can give to any parent, whether they can currently appreciate it or not. And when you can go along with them, all the more joy.

In a current discussion on Zoroastrianism I went into the fact that we inherently have the understanding that we are created beings under authority of the Supreme God and also creatures who are in authority over other created beings (such as the animals). And so our human relationships are supposed to consist of positions of authority or roles which we are meant to respect. Hence the forbidden sexual sins written in the law, which are mostly given with the reason of a violation of some authority position.

My personal opinion is that we haven't even tapped the mystery of the meaning hidden within all of these things, or maybe we wouldn't so easily violate them, especially in trivial matters.

However, when a society is gone so far away from Truth that righteous people are needed to draw it back, I don't think the Lord means for us to go along with the way of the world - Be not conformed to this world, but transformed - as we are to be lights and salt, even if we have to do it alone. Jesus did say He would be dividing families... He is our primary Authority, then human authority is second but just not to be completely ignored. We maintain DUE RESPECT.

 

[CecilW]

Adding 2 cents' worth of additional thought ...

I puzzled for some time over the chain of command explicitly stated by Paul in 1 Cor 11:3. "the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."

I wondered, "What about kids? Surely the head of kids is their parents?" God -> Jesus -> Man to -Woman -> Kids. Logical, right?

Finally, I understood. Paul was talking about a permanent chain of authority. So why not kids? Because children are expected to grow up and LEAVE their parents' authority structure forming families of their own, in which they will function the rest of their lives as men and women in their respective places in the chain.

In other words, while we will always be the parents of our children, our authority over them is strictly temporary -- a supervisory position much like that of teachers while preparing them to take on their adult roles. As they progress, our role changes and diminishes in authority.

It makes sense, therefore, that their response to us, and the definition of what it means to honor us will also change with time. As small children, it had a lot to do with obedience. As adults, it might have more to do with staying in contact, or providing in their old age, or passing their good lessons and legends on to our own children.

But no-one can serve two masters. And the very fact that men are told to leave their parents and submit to the headship of Christ directly, while women are told to submit to their own husbands, carries with it the understanding that whatever it means to honor one's parents as an adult, it does not contain a requirement to place oneself back under their authority.

That's not to say that it is wrong to grant their wishes. But it would seem important to do so from a position of kindness, rather than submission to misused authority.

 

[lutherangirl]

As an adult child, honoring your parents doesn't mean always doing what they want or think is best. If you are respectful and humble about your beliefs, then the Lord will bless your actions. We are required to honor the position of authority, whether or not the person filling that position seems worthy of the honor. Even the most godless parent (not yours!) can be honored in some way, otherwise the Lord would not have commanded it.

deut 30,

This is something that has been weighing on my heart. Thank you for your insight.

Beta,
I also feel that "society is getting so far from the Truth." I've had jobs outside the church my whole life and didn't get treated so bad until I started working for the church. I guess I thought working with Christians that there would some higher level of respect amongst us co-workers. Things do need to change inside and outside the church walls. However, it can only change if people are willing to put on the full armor of God like Ephesians 6 tells us. When I first started working for the church, I was a baby Christian letting my feelings and emotions sway my decision making. I feel so blessed finding this website and meeting people here, because my faith has really grown through reading so many wonderful posts here. So, Beta, I love your idea of drawling people back to the Truth. I know that we have to do it with lots of love and prayer. However, I've learned that I was very whimpy telling people the Truth. He didn't say "put on a box of Kleenex", but the "belt of truth and with the breastplate of righteousness." Even the word "armor" let's you know that there is a battle out in the world that we are fighting everyday.

 

[Anonymous]

You're right, Lutherangirl, it definitely IS a battle... a raging battle with so many enemies. We fight ourselves, the devil, the world, and sadly, our Christian brethren. That's why drawing people to the unchanging truth of God's Word, like Beta said, is the only solution.