Well, I'm not even going to pretend to be normal . . .Thanks Keith. Yes, I came to realise that it makes things a lot simpler if we are just normal... .
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Making Progress on the church acceptance front
- Thread starter Daniel DeLuca
- Start date
Ah! But you have to at least act like you haven't completely lost your mind, if you ever hope to persuade anyone of the validity of your claims. Where you want to be abnormal, you MUST be abnormal in a good way, so that they may see your good works, so to speak.Well, I'm not even going to pretend to be normal . . .
I am feeling another Wayne Watson song comin' on.....
Daniel, you'd be surprised at how historically persuasive I've been over the course of my life no matter how much I flaunted my abnormality. I have no doubt I have lost many people along the way because of it, but my suspicion is that I would have lost far more if I had failed to present the full Keith Martin. I believe there are already people in the Biblical Families community who have a sense of this. Normal is hunky dory for normal people, but those of us who aren't normal in whatever way we're not normal contribute things that normal folks sure do appreciate experiencing even though they couldn't contribute them in a million years.
One of my favorite bands has a name I shall not repeat here, but the title track on one of their best albums is "Weird Revolution." I laugh every time I hear it, and here are some of the lyrics:
"The so-called weirdos in this country are as completely freaked out by the normal man as the normal man is completely freaked out by the weirdos' reaction to him.
"The weird masses don't want to be normalized.
"Weirdos want to be abnormal.
"The freaks can't be formally normalized, nor can we be normally formalized.
"What we want is complete weirdification.
"Basically, we don't want weirdness from the normal man.
"We don't want to be freaked out by the normal man.
"We want to out-freak the normal man."
I find that, to the extent that I attempt to fit in or conform, I tend to disappear to an even greater extent.
It's a common refrain of members of the status quo who don't want to be persuaded anyway that those who present a different way of looking at things should entirely conform in order to be more persuasive. That's the blind promoting blindness. There is no amount of conformity that will persuade those who profit from conformity to widen the boundaries of the boxes within which they want the rest of us to live.
One of my favorite bands has a name I shall not repeat here, but the title track on one of their best albums is "Weird Revolution." I laugh every time I hear it, and here are some of the lyrics:
"The so-called weirdos in this country are as completely freaked out by the normal man as the normal man is completely freaked out by the weirdos' reaction to him.
"The weird masses don't want to be normalized.
"Weirdos want to be abnormal.
"The freaks can't be formally normalized, nor can we be normally formalized.
"What we want is complete weirdification.
"Basically, we don't want weirdness from the normal man.
"We don't want to be freaked out by the normal man.
"We want to out-freak the normal man."
I find that, to the extent that I attempt to fit in or conform, I tend to disappear to an even greater extent.
It's a common refrain of members of the status quo who don't want to be persuaded anyway that those who present a different way of looking at things should entirely conform in order to be more persuasive. That's the blind promoting blindness. There is no amount of conformity that will persuade those who profit from conformity to widen the boundaries of the boxes within which they want the rest of us to live.
Now I'm blushing, @steve.
On a more serious note, though, it was funny. I wrote the above post (#363), and then one of the next things I did last night was start reading again in Political Ponerology (a book recommended by a link elsewhere in these forums), and the very first thing I encountered on page 48 where I'd left off was this:
"The above-mentioned statements about human nature apply to normal people, with a few exceptions. However, each society on Earth contains a certain percentage of individuals, a relatively small but active minority, who cannot be considered normal [emphasis in original].
"We emphasize that here we are dealing with qualitative, not statistical abnormality. Outstandingly intelligent persons are statistically abnormal, but they can be quite normal members of society from the qualitative point of view. We are going to be looking at individuals that are statistically small in number [psychopaths in public life] but whose quality of difference is such that it can affect hundreds, thousands, even millions of other human beings in negative ways."
@Daniel DeLuca, I think you're pointing toward the same important distinction that author Andrew M. Lobaczewski (pronounced Lobe Uh Chesski) is addressing, a distinction between two different categories of abnormality. Most of the abnormality about myself which I proudly defend is really a matter of statistical abnormality; it's unusual but doesn't stop me from being a productive and caring member of society. The other side of abnormality is of the 'crazy' quality: one form of unfortunate mental dysfunction or another, the one being focused on in Political Ponerology being the conscious-devoid psychopathy that is not only both statistically abnormal but generally harmful to others and is overrepresented among members of The Elite, especially in so-called public service.
Let me clarify: what I addressed above in post 363 is abnormality of a non-destructive character, but I maintain my stance that getting sucked into believing one must appear to be normal is to fail to recognize how one's opponents are approaching discourse. Even the opposition to something like polygamy is only a shadowy reflection of what the true motivations are, because the motivation to demand monogamy doesn't come from some deeply-held moral value based on moral teachings but instead comes from the desire to control other human beings for one's own purposes. Therefore, worrying about whether one looks crazy fails to recognize that it's not a matter of persuading one's opponents that one has a legitimate point of view, because they are committed to restricting your freedom and will move the goal posts however they have to in order to keep you in a state of ongoing invalidation. No matter how non-crazy you demonstrate yourself to be, they will shift the craziness definitions, and even if you become so thoroughly successful in demonstrating your non-craziness, all they have to do is shift from goal posts to home bases and start moving them around a different field of play, claiming you don't meet the proper standards in some other realm, like intellectual rigor or spiritual purity or social conformity (this principle I'm describing is being demonstrated recently in the public arena related to whether or not there was election fraud).
I'm convinced that the only strategy that is ever going to have long-term success in regard to destigmatizing polygamy is one in which people who engage in the practice do so loud and proud -- and publicly exhibit something that simply sells itself with the average person, along the lines of being so compelling the reaction of many people is along the lines of, "Hey, I'd really like that in my life."
I wrote about something related to this for Patriarchs Journal a few years ago. If, for example, we fall into the trap of thinking that we have to become More Pious Than Thou in every other realm in our life in order to demonstrate that we're only seeking polygamy for Purely Pious reasons, what we can fail to recognize is that we paradoxically can come across as seeming to have some need to overcompensate for something (in this case polygamy), which only emotionally leads those looking in from the outside to unconsciously conclude that that something (again, in this case polygamy) is at its core a tainted endeavor and has to be made up for by being more thorough Good Boys in other areas.
We have nothing to be ashamed of in our pursuit of Biblical polygamy. In fact, no need even exists for us to convince anyone that we're Good Men and Women. Just stand tall and be prepared to respond when they come to you to ask questions or challenge what you're doing, and come from a stance that you're safe in the bosom of your Father in Heaven.
On a more serious note, though, it was funny. I wrote the above post (#363), and then one of the next things I did last night was start reading again in Political Ponerology (a book recommended by a link elsewhere in these forums), and the very first thing I encountered on page 48 where I'd left off was this:
"The above-mentioned statements about human nature apply to normal people, with a few exceptions. However, each society on Earth contains a certain percentage of individuals, a relatively small but active minority, who cannot be considered normal [emphasis in original].
"We emphasize that here we are dealing with qualitative, not statistical abnormality. Outstandingly intelligent persons are statistically abnormal, but they can be quite normal members of society from the qualitative point of view. We are going to be looking at individuals that are statistically small in number [psychopaths in public life] but whose quality of difference is such that it can affect hundreds, thousands, even millions of other human beings in negative ways."
@Daniel DeLuca, I think you're pointing toward the same important distinction that author Andrew M. Lobaczewski (pronounced Lobe Uh Chesski) is addressing, a distinction between two different categories of abnormality. Most of the abnormality about myself which I proudly defend is really a matter of statistical abnormality; it's unusual but doesn't stop me from being a productive and caring member of society. The other side of abnormality is of the 'crazy' quality: one form of unfortunate mental dysfunction or another, the one being focused on in Political Ponerology being the conscious-devoid psychopathy that is not only both statistically abnormal but generally harmful to others and is overrepresented among members of The Elite, especially in so-called public service.
Let me clarify: what I addressed above in post 363 is abnormality of a non-destructive character, but I maintain my stance that getting sucked into believing one must appear to be normal is to fail to recognize how one's opponents are approaching discourse. Even the opposition to something like polygamy is only a shadowy reflection of what the true motivations are, because the motivation to demand monogamy doesn't come from some deeply-held moral value based on moral teachings but instead comes from the desire to control other human beings for one's own purposes. Therefore, worrying about whether one looks crazy fails to recognize that it's not a matter of persuading one's opponents that one has a legitimate point of view, because they are committed to restricting your freedom and will move the goal posts however they have to in order to keep you in a state of ongoing invalidation. No matter how non-crazy you demonstrate yourself to be, they will shift the craziness definitions, and even if you become so thoroughly successful in demonstrating your non-craziness, all they have to do is shift from goal posts to home bases and start moving them around a different field of play, claiming you don't meet the proper standards in some other realm, like intellectual rigor or spiritual purity or social conformity (this principle I'm describing is being demonstrated recently in the public arena related to whether or not there was election fraud).
I'm convinced that the only strategy that is ever going to have long-term success in regard to destigmatizing polygamy is one in which people who engage in the practice do so loud and proud -- and publicly exhibit something that simply sells itself with the average person, along the lines of being so compelling the reaction of many people is along the lines of, "Hey, I'd really like that in my life."
I wrote about something related to this for Patriarchs Journal a few years ago. If, for example, we fall into the trap of thinking that we have to become More Pious Than Thou in every other realm in our life in order to demonstrate that we're only seeking polygamy for Purely Pious reasons, what we can fail to recognize is that we paradoxically can come across as seeming to have some need to overcompensate for something (in this case polygamy), which only emotionally leads those looking in from the outside to unconsciously conclude that that something (again, in this case polygamy) is at its core a tainted endeavor and has to be made up for by being more thorough Good Boys in other areas.
We have nothing to be ashamed of in our pursuit of Biblical polygamy. In fact, no need even exists for us to convince anyone that we're Good Men and Women. Just stand tall and be prepared to respond when they come to you to ask questions or challenge what you're doing, and come from a stance that you're safe in the bosom of your Father in Heaven.
@Keith Martin you would fit right in, here in Austin. 
@Keith Martin you would fit right in, here in Austin.
The Hill Country, yep, but not Austin Proper.
I've been coming to Austin now for 51 years, so I already know for a fact that I would not fit right in in Austin. I do love Austin in general, but living there would be problematic for me. I squirm internally being surrounded by Kool-Aid drinkers, and they dominate Austin. Each time I visit I'm reminded of this, and one of the most annoying things about way too many Austin residents is their health fascism; they just can't keep their mouths shut about how we should all be following enlightened diets, exercising properly, etc. I'm actually pretty much a health food and exercise fanatic, but I don't proselytize about it or want it pushed on me or anyone else. That's a parent's function, not a neighbor's. I suspect there is a strong correlation between the fact that these folks tend to have very few children of their own and their tendency to be hip moral busybodies.
Austin is weird! You are right about the fitness craze going on here. The city likes to remove lanes from the streets to replace them with bicycle lanes. They have this mistaken notion that if traffic gets bad enough, people will be forced to ride their bikes. Reality though, is a stubborn thing.
Well, awomen, @MeganC. People vote with their feet far more often than they vote at the ballot box.
In Austin's case, people who don't want to be harangued for not being woke leftists have been leaving for decades. I can point to many really once-excellent neighborhoods that were formerly populated mainly by left-leaning but very reasonable human beings who now have fled to other climes due to being made to feel like they aren't drinking sufficient quantities of Kool-Aid. The thing, though, is that they are more than being replaced by woke leftists who swarm there from not only all the small towns in Texas where they felt lonely among those in possession of common sense but also from the many states in the country already ruined by those with woke leftist ideology and policies who no longer want to live with the results of what they've voted for -- but will then bring that same set of self-defeating principles to their voting behavior in Texas.
They'll look at it as fixing Texas right up until the moment that they ruin Texas -- and then split for some other location to sociopathologize.
In Austin's case, people who don't want to be harangued for not being woke leftists have been leaving for decades. I can point to many really once-excellent neighborhoods that were formerly populated mainly by left-leaning but very reasonable human beings who now have fled to other climes due to being made to feel like they aren't drinking sufficient quantities of Kool-Aid. The thing, though, is that they are more than being replaced by woke leftists who swarm there from not only all the small towns in Texas where they felt lonely among those in possession of common sense but also from the many states in the country already ruined by those with woke leftist ideology and policies who no longer want to live with the results of what they've voted for -- but will then bring that same set of self-defeating principles to their voting behavior in Texas.
They'll look at it as fixing Texas right up until the moment that they ruin Texas -- and then split for some other location to sociopathologize.
We had a nearby family of California idiots who called the sheriff's department on us one 4th of July a few years back. Steve and his friends do a BBQ and rifle range thing every year and the gunfire can be pretty impressive but it's still 100% legal. The idiots called the sheriff's department and a deputy came out, drove up our two mile road, and then got out of his car looking like he was going to get a little huffy and then he saw 20+ armed men with serious looks and decided to be friendly (Amazing how that works!).
He chatted for a while and then went and told the California idiots not to call about gunfire from our ranch again.
They sold and moved to Arizona after two winters here and we gave them credit for making it through more than one winter.
In any case they are soft people who like soft living and at the same time they want to control everyone around them.
On topic, Utah just became another Constitutional carry state where you can carry concealed without a permit. The Salt Lake City police will lose their minds over this and I expect we'll see them shoot a few innocent people before the SLC police get the idea.
Up here you just carry if you feel like it. I always carry my .45 when I leave the house because bears have no respect for a 9mm.
He chatted for a while and then went and told the California idiots not to call about gunfire from our ranch again.
They sold and moved to Arizona after two winters here and we gave them credit for making it through more than one winter.
In any case they are soft people who like soft living and at the same time they want to control everyone around them.
On topic, Utah just became another Constitutional carry state where you can carry concealed without a permit. The Salt Lake City police will lose their minds over this and I expect we'll see them shoot a few innocent people before the SLC police get the idea.
Up here you just carry if you feel like it. I always carry my .45 when I leave the house because bears have no respect for a 9mm.
Austin intentionally left their road infrastructure unimproved, thinking that if they didn't build it, people wouldn't come. People came anyway, and all Austin got for their backwards thinking, is traffic nightmares. Now, they are spending frantically to try to get "caught up". Unfortunately, they keep using this cheap asphalt that falls apart every time it rains and some tractor trailer has to brake hard. They ought to take a hint from Dallas and Houston, and use real concrete. I cannot help but believe that the asphalt companies have figured out how to grease the right palms.
My husband does paving and I've noticed he's worked all around Texas but never in Austin. Now I'll have to ask him if this is why!
I've noticed this sort of reaction about a lot of things. Christians will hate you for going against the tradition, family will be upset for going against the cultural expectations, but the non-Christians are non-pulsed by it. And why not, Muslims do it and no one bats an eye.
Moreover they may even respect you for it and ask questions because they recognize you're operating from faith, a faith they don't often see.
And that's an opportunity to share the Gospel.
Solid Gold bro!
There are times when I find it extremely difficult to sit on good news that I would love to share, but information that falls into the wrong hands, can foil developments.
Man! I am so nervous about this! I had a thought that maybe I should just put it all out there, now that I have an email address, and I am not on church property. It might actually work out better than playing a "cat and mouse" game. It's one thing to present the arguments, but this is a step further...asking for willingness to accept this. Rejection is a risk that I will have to face sooner or later. I would like to hear experiences from others who have been in this position...oh, and prayers too. If you have, PM me.
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What position? Sorry, you're being so secretive about it I have no idea what you're talking about.