Such leaders are really good at avoiding debate.
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Making Progress on the church acceptance front
- Thread starter Daniel DeLuca
- Start date
Such leaders are really good at avoiding debate.
The saying, "You can run, but you cannot hide", comes to mind.
Well that should be the aim of any debate, whether on a platform against some of these leaders, or on social media websites. Debate IS what we are engaging in, and without it, we cease to exist, except as a small pocket of believers who are ostracized by society. Failure to debate this, is what led to Rome dictating to everybody what constitutes marriage. Just as we must earnestly contend for the faith, we must also proclaim truth to our peers. My only concern, is not whether to debate this issue, but how much. I only have a limited amount of resources. Debating on a larger stage, maximizes those resources.
The only Christian leaders who debate are professional apologists. The American Pastor's stock in trade is in not letting anyone else have a say so that they can not be challenged in any way. There will be no debates with them. It's not even an option.
About the only exceptions I've seen are a few who venture out onto blogs and it always goes very poorly for them. They cannot stand up to even the average blog commentor.
About the only exceptions I've seen are a few who venture out onto blogs and it always goes very poorly for them. They cannot stand up to even the average blog commentor.
I love it when I see these guys attempt to defend their stance! You are absolutely right. Most of the time, they pretend that no comment has been raised, and let other people attempt to argue on their behalf, which typically results in someone posting a link to a gotquestions.org article, and the argument goes back and forth ad infinitum. I know that we have a few here at Bib Fam who learned the truth by reading those comments, but who's got time for that? We all have regular jobs!
I think the best platform we have, is these Reality TV shows. It would behoove us to get that debate challenge to anyone who wishes to debate this matter, and if I were on one of those shows, I would insist that it gets into the content of the programming, that there is an open debate out there, to see if anyone is willing to do so. I would specifically mention Janet Parshall, because I have heard her numerous times, claim that polygamy is wrong on her radio show, but I would name others such as John Piper and Bobby Conway and Allen Parr. They probably won't do it, but at least more people would know that they are too cowardly to deal with it.
Keep up the good fight! I have really loved this topic!
Hmmm! We are going through the book of Numbers. Funny how we skipped right past the saga where Moses has a Cushite wife. I was really looking forward to that discussion! Oh well! Chapter 31 is coming up. That should be interesting.
You should ask why it was skipped haha
OK, in the 90s we attended a small home school church and we have since remained good friends with these people and on occasion visit. So last Sunday we visited, and one thing they do is that they have an open time where any Christian man can share a verse, so I asked to share one and shared 2 Chronicles 24:2,3 about Joash and his two wives. I just read the verses and then sat back down without offering any commentary, preferring to let the scripture speak for itself.
After the meeting was over one of the elders came up to me and said, "That was an interesting verse you shared. Is there a reason why you picked it." and another elder was listening in. So I explained how that God was pleased with him, and he was not bothered by the two wives, etc. The interesting thing was they both quickly said that they did not believe polygamy was a sin. They said they had recently studied "concubinage" and wished I had been there for that.
I mentioned how Christian missionaries break up families in Africa and they were in total agreement that that was wrong.
However, they still seemed to have the position that monogamy was God's intention, or his "best" and that polygamy was "unwise".
One of the other elders seemed to also think it was forbidden because it is illegal. I got him to admin that if they allowed monogamous marriage that he would not obey that law, but he could not quite grok that the same principle might apply to polygamy.
Anyway it was a good and friendly discussion.
One thing I would like to ask and failed to do so, is what they would do if a polygamous family showed up and wanted to worship with them. Would they be accepted? Next time I see him, I think I will ask.
After the meeting was over one of the elders came up to me and said, "That was an interesting verse you shared. Is there a reason why you picked it." and another elder was listening in. So I explained how that God was pleased with him, and he was not bothered by the two wives, etc. The interesting thing was they both quickly said that they did not believe polygamy was a sin. They said they had recently studied "concubinage" and wished I had been there for that.
I mentioned how Christian missionaries break up families in Africa and they were in total agreement that that was wrong.
However, they still seemed to have the position that monogamy was God's intention, or his "best" and that polygamy was "unwise".
One of the other elders seemed to also think it was forbidden because it is illegal. I got him to admin that if they allowed monogamous marriage that he would not obey that law, but he could not quite grok that the same principle might apply to polygamy.
Anyway it was a good and friendly discussion.
One thing I would like to ask and failed to do so, is what they would do if a polygamous family showed up and wanted to worship with them. Would they be accepted? Next time I see him, I think I will ask.
Praise God for that report! I sense the dam is showing more and more cracks in it. I think I would have jumped on that comment about polygamy being unwise, agreeing that it is unwise for MOST men, but obviously, there have been men who God gave the ability to take care of more than one, and I would have pointed out that expelling a member for doing something unwise, or removing them from leadership for doing so, is not right. What is the name of this church?
cnystrom said:
I know someone on the church staff who tells me things. For instance, one day the Pastor took the (female) office staff out to lunch, and jokingly referred to them as sister-wives. Another time, a different pastor told how he had a conversation with his wife about what she would do if he wanted to get another wife. So Leadership has at least some awareness of the issue, and the head Pastor knows I support poly as biblical.
Like you, I feel the next step for me is to ask what they would do if a triad came through the front door and asked if they could worship with us. I actually had an opportunity to ask this some weeks ago, but didn't act on it, which I very much regret as an opportunity lost. Since then I've been rehearsing what I would say, but the opportunity has not come again.
It sounds like you've got quite a good foundation to work from. Not a leadership as aggressively opposed to the idea as many of us have encountered. Hopefully the opportunity arises again soon. Cheers
It will! Let the Holy Spirit guide you. We are more than over-comers! Oh and ask them if they would throw their own pastor out of the pulpit, if he were to come out as pro-poly. Personally, if and when my church expels me for having a second wife, I am inclined to visit a number of churches dressed in a white shirt and black slacks and a nice black tie, and tell people there, that I have discovered the truth about Mormonism, and cannot embrace it.
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A lot of church scandals would have been avoided and homes saved if Christianity embraced polygamy. Instead we expect the alpha males around us to not act like alpha males. Human nature wins out eventually.
Yes, and the truth of Holy Scripture would be upheld, and God's true nature proclaimed in living example to this corrupt and deceived world.
The evil fruit of monogamy.
Well, I was looking forward to having lunch with the First chair violinist today, but he seems to have forgotten to show up at the Chick Fil'A at the appointed time. We made arrangements on Sunday, to meet for lunch, and I told him I was open to either this Thursday or Friday. I will need to find out his contact info. I gave him mine, but he didn't call or let me know that he would not make it, so he must have forgotten about it. 
The evil fruit of monogamy only... I love your post!
Classic... He probably did not forget but realized that he had no argument against your points and is not ready for that red pill so to speak... God bless you.Well, I was looking forward to having lunch with the First chair violinist today, but he seems to have forgotten to show up at the Chick Fil'A at the appointed time. We made arrangements on Sunday, to meet for lunch, and I told him I was open to either this Thursday or Friday. I will need to find out his contact info. I gave him mine, but he didn't call or let me know that he would not make it, so he must have forgotten about it.