• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Living off the grid

Bels
We've got an old coal range with an extended firebox, which we actually burn wood on exclusively. Having said that we have used a bit of coal in the past, it's a great fuel, a lot of the modern eco-nonsense about it frustrates me. It's just preserved wood, you can either burn wood fresh (as wood) or a few years later (as coal), the net effect on the environment is similar. All the carbon in the coal came from the atmosphere initially after all as the trees grew!

Cecil
I used to be quite keen on cob too, until the earthquakes. Not sure where you got your information from on cob in earthquakes down here. The one cob cottage I know of was completely shattered in the earthquakes, all walls are cracked, and the fireplace is a fireplace-shaped pile of shattered clay blocks. You'd still be alive if you were in the house though, because the one wall that collapsed fell outwards and the roof stayed supported on the remaining walls. One day I'll build us an above-ground cob "cellar" (high water tables here) as it would be brilliant for food storage. I wouldn't live in a cob house though, not in our shaky islands anyway. Timber and corrugated iron is the safest way to build down here!

Thanks for the links though, I've looked into those fireplaces in the past but hadn't thought about it for this house. I'll see if there's a way to incorporate something like that into the extension when it happens. I'm meaning to put central heating through the current house because the range gives us far more hot water than we could ever use, and should be able to heat the house too.
 
FollowingHim said:
Bels
We've got an old coal range with an extended firebox, which we actually burn wood on exclusively. Having said that we have used a bit of coal in the past, it's a great fuel, a lot of the modern eco-nonsense about it frustrates me. It's just preserved wood, !
Click to expand...

Yeah you keep thinking that!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_effects_of_coal
 
FollowingHim said:
The one cob cottage I know of was completely shattered in the earthquakes, all walls are cracked, and the fireplace is a fireplace-shaped pile of shattered clay blocks.
Click to expand...

In that case, I wonder whether it was constructed from cob or adobe? Adobe is made with blocks made from earth. Cob has fibers running all through it. And in the 90s, one of the first cob buildings I saw was a NZ home which had withstood 2 or 3 major earthquakes which had each trashed the nearby town. It had a few, easily patched, cracks in the walls. That was all.

I'm meaning to put central heating through the current house because the range gives us far more hot water than we could ever use, and should be able to heat the house too.
Click to expand...
You might consider running hot water pipes in the floor as your method of central heading. For interests sake, you could use a layer of cob as your material around the water pipes. Ianto Evans out in Oregon has done some gorgeous floors finishing with cob and linseed oil. I built a house with hot water through the floors, and it was absolutely WONDERFUL!
 
Isabella said:
FollowingHim said:
Bels
We've got an old coal range with an extended firebox, which we actually burn wood on exclusively. Having said that we have used a bit of coal in the past, it's a great fuel, a lot of the modern eco-nonsense about it frustrates me. It's just preserved wood, !
Click to expand...
Yeah you keep thinking that!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_effects_of_coal
Click to expand...
The problem, Bels, is that we aren't either free nor able to have individual nuclear power generating plants in our back yards.

So, the question before the house is: Is a coal burning stove, presuming the coal is mined from some reasonable surface deposit, rather than stripping mountains apart, etc., producing any MORE troublesome by-products per household BTU consumed than does wood?

And which troubles you more in your forest? A giant carbon dioxide consuming, oxygen producing tree destroyed and turned into firewood? Or some rocks turned into a different kind of rocks (clinkers) after releasing their stored energy?

Put that way, I'd guess they're similar in effect, but I'd rather keep the tree for it's long-term cleaning effect. In fact, it might even be able to clean the air of the effects of the coal burning, whereas the coal couldn't do a thing for the effects of the burning wood!

Having said that, I'm a lifelong wood burner myself. :P
 
If you are buying anyway (as opposed to going outside and chopping down a tree) I would opt for pressed wood, it is a by-product and therefore more clean and environmentally friendly.

I know in general we have to take what's available or go without, but you would have to be seriously kidding yourself if you think that coal is just old wood.....I wouldn't like to breath it in all day every day.

My lungs are not that good you know!! ;)
 
Isabella said:
you would have to be seriously kidding yourself if you think that coal is just old wood.
Click to expand...

Ok. Includes leaves and grasses and flowers and insects and critters. Compressed biological matter, right? What's the diff? :)
 
CecilW said:
Ok. Includes leaves and grasses and flowers and insects and critters. Compressed biological matter, right? What's the diff? :)
Click to expand...

One can kill you and the other is just.....wood..?? I am sorry am I missing something here? I kind of figured the negative effects of burning coal is just an ordinary non-controversial fact, I certainly did not expect it to be called the "same as burning wood"...I am a little bit shocked actually. :?
 
So do most folks. But here's the thing...

Yes, large power plants, burning huge amounts of coal, do put off lots of messy environmental blah blah blah.

But for them to generate the same amount of BTUs burning firewood (Remember, the comparison here is coal vs firewood, not coal vs natural gas), would they create more pollutants or less? And would they be denuding more forests or less? (hint: M - o - r - e! :) )

I ran a coal burning power plant heating the dormitories, admin buildings and cannery of a small boarding school back when I was 15 (just shortly after Noah's Flood). Yup, it was a hot dirty job. But I rarely, if ever, smelled airborne pollutants from the coal. It was cheap and efficient.

However, I often smell the airborne pollutants of an individual home heating with firewood. Rather enjoy it, actually. Out walking on a cold evening along some country road, with the smell of woodsmoke in the air... Priceless!! And that's just for one small house, not 4 or 5 large institutional buildings!

The thing is, our dear friends the environmentalists often don't think these things through real well. Got too much emotion going on. The question isn't "Which burns with less pollutants, coal or natural gas?" in an area where your choices are to cut a tree, or dig some rocks out of an exposed bank to heat what is, in the larger scheme of things, a relatively small space in a not too heavily populated area. In that situation, if you got 'em, burn the rocks, says I. If you can heat the space by burning a few trees and leaves that have been dead for millenia, instead of killing one today, why not?

So "pollutants" get airborne? Ok. Then what happens? It rains. Then what? The pollutants go back into the ground. Then what? They go into some more plants. Then what? I go cross-eyed. But they aren't in the air any more. And if one or the other (coal or firewood) does NOT get to put their pollutants in the air to keep me warm, then I'm gonna freeze to death, and my body will give off pollutant gasses which will stink up the air anyway, so, if its all the same to everyone, I'll take my chances with the burning stuff.

And while all the above is true, it's doubly fun to be pulling your chain, Bels. :lol:
 
Cecil, I must admit that from what I know of the construction of that particular cottage there could well have been a shortage of fibre contributing.

Bels, there are many things people claim are 'non-controversial facts'. Evolution, global warming, the medical safety of abortion, monogamy :) ... Claiming an issue is settled is often a way of avoiding debate, so don't believe everything you read. Yes, there certainly are issues with coal particularly when it is in an inefficient burner. But God didn't give us millions of tonnes of trees conveniently preserved and tell us we aren't allowed to touch them. The earth's resources are here for our benefit, we just need to use them wisely.
 
FollowingHim said:
The earth's resources are here for our benefit, we just need to use them wisely.
Click to expand...

Plus, we can make houses, and furniture and porch swings and toys, and even PAPER out of the wood much more easily than out of the coal. So we're using the resources constructively, when both are available.

And remember, I LIKE burning wood. :lol:
 
My mind has seriously just boggled.....it is quite clear that I am about as likely to get sense out of this thread as blood out of a stone so I am bowing out.....

Thanks for the links Cecil.
 
That all depends whether your definition of "sense" is sensible or nonsense. :geek:
 
just what the heck is the fascination with getting blood out of a stone anyway?
 
I've read Your Posts, very interesting. My wife and I live off grid and have for years. I don't like depending on the system for anything, since the whole system is set up to munipulate the creator's people into submission to satan's viceses.
We have plenty of electricity from a generator I built. It costs about 3 qts. to 1 gallon of gasoline per day to run it. For 650.00 You can build an equal system, from all new parts. I've checked out just about all reasonable methods of having power for our needs, this is the quickest, cheapest, and easiest to accomplish, and easiest to maintain, than anything I can come up with.
We use wood for heat. We use a small box stove, which, in the winter time, doubles as heat and cooking. I, like Cecil, love the smell of wood smoke in the air, it is just pleasing. We also use propane to cook.
Since We just got this property last November, We're going to have to develope our organic garden, and our Herb beds. That will be a task, but the herbs is a necessity of life. I make all the medacine used by My Wife and I. We don't do the Potions of the Satanic Medical profession.
I suggest everybody start to learn some of the ways of our forefathers, as survivers, so You won't be at the mercy of the masses, I believe those days are not far off, according to the Scriptures.
I have considered an underground house, it would be easy to heat, and it would stay cool in the summer heat, since We live in South Carolina. I just like all the windows in my motorhome, underground would be a big change.
Another thing to consider, by anyone growing gardens without any chemicals, is earthworms, the castings are excellent for gardens, and they're easy to raise, and they make good garbage disposels.
Off grid don't mean having no gadgets. We have computers, cellphone, electric tools, 110 and 12v lights, and anything else We need. I think of the time that might come when none of the electronic gadgets will be useful, that's why We have manual replacements for all the necessary items needed everyday, such as meat grinders. Get to know how to preserve Your food by drying, or caning, or storage in a root cellar.
Living off grid is a way of life, it might not be for everybody, but for us there's no way I'd do anything else.
We enjoy reading Your threads on BF, since We have the same interests. There's just the two of us right now, but who knows?
Jay
 
Jack, I'd be interested to know more about your generator. We're having ongoing generator issues. Made do with a cheap one until it killed my computer. Thought I'd solve this by just spending a pile of money on a brand-new decent one, but that's having issues too so I don't know if it will be the solution or will end up back at the shop. We've got a 1kw solar array but rely on a generator when the weather is poor.
 
We live on about 5 acres and FW and DH have had a garden before but I have never even lived in the area before and was raised far north where growing seasons and what you can grow are limited severely by the weather, now in southern MS hwo would we go about starting a garden that could sustain us all year? What would it take and how much land to till etc? As for getting animals my daughter would love it if we had ducks(she is obsessed with them) but we are mostly all urban raised or urban like raised and lack a bunch of the knowledge required. Any suggestions on beginning stage planning etc?

Thanks
 
If you've never gardened before, start by growing anything that grows from tubers or big seeds. Seed size might sound like weird advice!

But:
1) Tubers and larger seeds have a lot more reserves in them to get a plant off to a good start, the plants are more able to cope with being sown at the wrong depth or in a poor seedbed or whatever. Great for beginners.
2) Big seeds come from bulky plants that produce a large amount of food for less effort. Great rewards for your first labours.

In other words, start with
Tubers: potatoes, yams, sweet potatoes
Large seeds: pumpkin, squash, sweetcorn

Then move on to small seeds of good bulky root vegetables: carrots, radishes etc

Later you can start playing around with lettuces, cabbages, tomatoes, and all the other wonderful things that people like to grow but which get eaten by slugs or need staking or other fussing around.

Wife says: Go to your local library and find something about growing stuff locally. My comments above apply to New Zealand but could be nonsense wherever you live. That is very good advice too!

We've never had ducks, but have chooks and they're a great way of using up all the food that small children drop on the floor. You've got enough space for a few sheep or goats, and here my bulk advice applies again - much better to take a few hours to kill and butcher a sheep and get enough meat to feed the family for weeks, than to butcher a duck or a rabbit and get enough food for half a meal! But if you like rabbit, you could try farming them too, you can get very large meat rabbits that you could raise very easily in a small space and would feed a large family much better than a wild one!
 
thanks for the start I will look into the library but it really isn't much of a library and has a very poor selection on all books but particularly on non-fiction books. We have asked around as well but get mostly info that is way above our knowledge so confusing or "just plant it" or info on pesticides - how much it costs to water - way to much work - "you are gonna have to garden in the heat, you know that right?!" etc. We have so much natural water here I was planning on using it to water the garden and frankly i like the heat, still surprises everyone here though but after living in Canada, I appreciate the warmth lol. Plus I was looking for info on things like How much is required to support a larger family - we have 9 members in our family- and I nor DH or FW know how much is required. I know general canning procedures, have made my own jam and preserves from fruit before, oh and baby food, but was all from store bought food.
 
I recommend All New Square Foot Gardening for the easiest method of getting a successful garden going, for those of us born without green thumbs. I believe that it will teach you how to calculate how much you need to grow, and how to do it year round. Maybe even grow enough to sell or share.

As to critters, the problem you are likely to have with ducks is that if your daughter is crazy about them, they're unlikely to make it to the pot without major grief. As a youngster, a close friend raised a lamb as her pet. One day, it disappeared, then reappeared on the table. She will NOT eat lamb to this day, and becomes very agitated if anyone tries to get her to.

I don't know the answer to that part. But children, with their tender hearts, do seem particularly susceptible to the idea that friends don't eat friends, and thus want to go vegetarian before slaughtering their pets. However cows, goats, and even sheep can be milked. Chickens, and ducks produce eggs. Turkeys produce Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner ... oh! Back to the slaughtering thing ... *shrug*
 
I reccomend a book titled "backyard homestead" by Carleen Madigan. The book can help you plan your space. She also has a book on backyard farm animals. The key with animals though is you have to have the stomach to cull them, either for food or for population control. If someone in the family hasn't had to do that before I would highly suggest finding someone who does this and learning from them. I have a friend who was going to raise meat rabbits and couldn't handle processing the meat. They have several hundred rabbits and can't get homes for all of them. LOL
Your county should have a Co-op or extension office that would have lots of information. Also look for contacts at a local farmers market or community garden.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top