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Lame Question alert:)

rusty_armor

New Member
masonyastesmom said:
I'm coming to the conclusion, after reading many many posts with biblical references, that the main bible translation used it King James Version.

I can't speak for any on this forum, but in my circles we usually use the KJV for cites from the pulpit (or bima) unless it is to point out an incorrect interpretation of the passage, simply because it is the version that most English speaking people are conversant with. It seems to me that most every English translation of Hebrew fails to catch the nuances in the original. In spite of the overblown rhetoric on the various versions about translations vs. paraphrases, they are all essentially paraphrases. I call it "Name your favorite mistranslation and defend it"

Most of the congregations I attend also read original Hebrew, but since few of the listeners are trained in classic Hebrew, it is just so many intonations for them.

So at the same time the passage is being read, the projector has the corresponding verse in ... yeah ... you guessed it. KJV.

I suspect that the Eastern church has the same problems with the KJV vs. original Greek as well.

~Rusty
 
As Jay noted in the other thread, Nikki - they're all still translations.

However, there clearly ARE differences, and there are a number of things which can clearly be called "errors" or omissions, or even distortions in various versions.

I once had such a discussion with my wife B after we had heard about a specific issue, while listening to a pastor discuss spiritual warfare. We compared her NIV version to a number of other versions; try it yourself.

Look up Mark 9:29.


(Compare other versions, and Matthew 17:21 as well. Key words that indicate what Yeshua was teaching His disciples are just plain MISSING in some versions; there are even versions where the entire concept or verse is omitted. If you do a search, you can find literally hundreds of discrepancies; most are minor, but many will give one pause.)

I couldn't help but wonder if the Adversary might have a desire to see certain useful but critical information hidden...



OK - one more that is almost funny:

Look up Ecclesiastes 2:8, and note the innocuous joy of 'musical instruments':
(This is from the KJV, just to illustrate the flaw.)

I gathered me also silver and gold, and the peculiar treasure of kings and of the provinces: I gat me men singers and women singers, and the delights of the sons of men, [as] musical instruments, and that of all sorts.

Do a word search on that word:
Strong's H7705 - shiddah
שדה

Transliteration "shiddah"
Meaning: "concubine, wife, harem"

There is only one usage in the KJV translated as "musical instrument" rather than translating the "delights of the sons of men" as "wives" or "concubines"!



Blessings,

Mark

PS> I did a search on the Blue Letter Bible of some other versions, and there is quite a variance; many do render it as 'wives', 'concubines', or even 'harem'.
 
the [KVJ is the] version that most English speaking people are conversant with.

Rusty makes an interesting point, Nikki.

I bet that even most atheists can quote "Thou shalt not kill", or similar. Somehow just having a "thee" or "thou" in there makes it sound Biblical to folks who never read it. :o
 
The KJV is the most quoted, but I think/agree that it is important to view other versions to see what has been left out or modified to the translators bias. Also, it is important to be able to hear from God in your daily life. It is remarkable to me that people never establish communication with God, but only read scripture. Scripture was never intended to close the door to God speaking. Scripture is not God. Scripture is of God but it is not God.
 
...Well, SLAP ME IN THE FACE! ...
This can not be an over site...
See it is things like this that frustrate me. Because the traditional churches usually use the NIV and NLT, there will be people out there that will never recieve the 'full' gospel. How long are the churches going to preach the "feel good" message??

I'm thankful to hear that, Nikki. That is why it is important that we be "like the Bereans" and search out His Truth for ourselves, as there are so many such warnings in Scripture.

People often quote Hosea 4:6 ("My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...") -- but it is the second part of that verse that really tells the story. Teachers are held to a higher standard, but it is very important in these times that we are careful not only to not "reject knowledge", but to diligently seek Him.

Love in Him,

Mark
 
Nikki,

I have to mostly agree and somewhat disagree with the above posts. I was raised on the KJV and I believe that was for a reason. Until I obtained a computer program with a bunch of translations and helps in it, so that I can get depth in God’s Word at the touch of my fingers, (gotta love that) I needed the Strong’s concordance to teach the Word. The Strong’s is based on the old KJV. Even now, if I am without my computer, I still have to go back to the Strong’s for reference when I teach or preach. Since the new concordances, (e.g., NLT) do not have the Hebrew/Chaldean and Greek dictionaries, they are not that helpful if you want to get the fuller meaning of some words, as in Mark’s example with the musical instruments, (maybe that is what KJ men thought of extra wives back then)?!

Having said that, here is what I have found as a result of my studies under the Holy Spirit’s guidance...

The NKJV is the most accurate translation that I have come across, so that is what I use in my ministry for teaching. It corrects many of the errors in the KJV. For example, if you teach someone that God said in the Ten Commandments that ‘Thou shalt not kill’, but the Bible says in Ecclesiastes that ‘there is a time to kill’, how do you explain that? The answer is that the KJV has a mistranslation of the sixth commandment. The NKJV correctly translates the command as, ‘You shall not MURDER.’ Murder is taking someone’s live without a cause and usually in anger. There is a parallel verse in Matthew 5:21 that also has the same error in the KJV, as the Greek word meaning ‘murder’ is incorrectly translated as ‘kill’. This is correctly translated in the NKJV. Interestingly, the NLT also has the correct translations in both cases. So in this instance, both the NKJV and NLT are more accurate than the KJV. This is one of the big things that people who call themselves Christian do not understand, because the leaders of the church were also raised on the error found in the KJV, so they do not understand it. That is why people cannot argue correctly for or against the death penalty by using the KJV Bible, because it has a significant error on this point.

The NLT is actually fairly accurate. However, it has more error than the NKJV, but I use it for baby Christians so that they can more easily understand the Word. I call it ‘the Bible for dummies’. When I get a new ‘disciple’, I give them both translations. I instruct them to READ the NLT daily, but to STUDY out of the NKJV. It was only after I read the NLT version of Isaiah chapter 4 that I truly understood and accepted the concept of modern polygyny as God revealed it directly to me. I also teach people about the Apocrypha and the use of the Strong’s concordance/dictionary, (not the New Strong’s as I think it has more error than the older version). I have found these errors from my studies with the Holy Spirit helping me write my teachings and the book that I recently posted on our web site.

In my opinion, the KJV is simply outdated and too difficult for most new converts to understand. I would rather that someone retained a greater majority of the Word from the NLT, than study and not understand the KJV. I have found the NLT to be so enjoyable for new people to read that they get very excited about it. Even today I gave one to someone that I do not even know, because I had lent it to a Muslim lady in attempts to try to get her to receive the truth about healing, (her mother who is younger than me has terminal cancer). She rejected God’s Word, but told me that when she was reading the NLT Bible that I loaned her while at lunch one day that a co-worker, (who is a Christian) borrowed it to look something up. After reading it the co-worker said to the Muslim lady that she needed to get one. I went to follow-up with the Muslim lady today, (she is my banker) and she told me the story. So I asked her if her co-worker wanted the Bible. She called her and the lady asked for it, so I gave it to her. I also find the Amplified Bible and other translations, (except the NIV) to be occasionally helpful. No offense please, but the NIV is the worst Bible on the planet, in my opinion. It is chocked full of error.

Recently, when this subject came up on another thread, I went to God and He revealed to me the reason that He has allowed the many translations to exist and even allows error in His modern written Word. The key to understanding this reason is found in Matthew 10:34, Ephesians 6:17, Revelation 19:13 and v. 15. The Word of God is Jesus and it is also a sword. Jesus came in one sense in order to divide those who claim to be His people. He does this by His Word, (the ‘sword’). Jesus and the apostles taught us that we should endeavor NOT to become divided over trivial issues that are debatable. However, people who call themselves Christians do it all the time. Just read some of the posts on this web site to illustrate what I am saying. True Christians will NOT argue over debatable issues. They will rather choose to obey Jesus’ command to love one another as HE loves us. This is the only way that the world at large will know that we are His disciples, by our love for one another, (John 13:34-35). However, most ‘Christians’ continue to bite and devour one another. It is only when the Christian church at large becomes perfected in love that Jesus will come back, (Ephesians chapter 4). The different translations and error that is in them is a test for us. Most of us have failed this test miserably. That is one of the reasons that the Christian church at large will go through the great tribulation, because they simply refuse to obey Jesus’ command that we love one another, (perfected Christians will even show respect for their enemies). The tribulation will force people either to learn to walk in love, or reject Christ totally. Unfortunately, the mainstream church is teaching the lie that the ‘rapture’ will occur BEFORE the great tribulation, (which is just around the corner). This will not happen and when people who call themselves ‘Christian’, (but refuse to obey God) find themselves in the midst of this tribulation, they will fall away from the faith. This is what Jesus taught about in Matthew chapter 24, esp. v. 10 and Paul repeated in II Thessalonians chapter 2, esp. v. 3.

The concept of the perfected Christian love walk is a significant part of my ministry and the subject of the book and teachings that God had me make freely available on our web site, (http://www.perfectchristian.110mb.com). Many of the revelations that God has given me are found in those writings. Anyone who really wants to prepare for these end-time events will be able to use these writings to do so. They will find that I use several translations, the Strong’s, dictionaries, Apocrypha, etc. in order to get a fuller picture of what God is saying to this generation. The bottom line is for us to get perfected in Christ. That can be done using any translation with the help of the Holy Spirit, as you so aptly pointed out.

I hope that this has been helpful.

Be blessed,

Ray
 
The NKJV correctly translates the command as, ‘You shall not MURDER.’




Wonderful, Dr. Ray!

I keep physical copies of both the AKVJ (Large Print ;) ) and "The Scriptures" by my computer, and a copy of the NKJV on the headboard of my bed. (And my Geneva is REALLY heavy. It stays in the bookcase unless I want to look something up specifically!)

I knew that The Scriptures correctly renders "You shall not murder", and that a few others also did so, while the KJV did not; but, for the long time that I have known the distinction, I have always simply read the verse in the KJV as it is Written, not as written. :)

I tend to compare the two variants of the KJ with other versions, but only rarely with each other. And I had honestly never noticed that correction THERE before. Thanks!

(And I second your comments re: concordances, since I was trying to say something similar, but I think your explanation was more clear.)


Blessings,
Mark
 
On-line bible quotes are probably the least reliable way of determining the actual version a community may prefer. A lot of bible sites with commentaries and search functions use KJV as their default and scripture can then easily be copied and pasted into a post rather than typing out whole quotes by hand.

Personally i refer to a few different versions KJV, NIV, American Standard. I also have a full copy of the "The Message". I even have my old Jehovah's Witness version (New World Translation). I also have a few translations of the Koran with commentaries which is very handy when discussing religion with Muslims.

I don't think this site or the Christian Poly Community in general endorses any single translation. They all have their uses within various contexts. Sometimes comparing different versions can help you understand another persons point of view.
 
masonyastesmom said:
What's so special about that particular version??

Ps. Told you it was a lame question:)


Nikki,
That definitely gets into a sensitive area in certain regions around the globe. Especially in the south when you talk about america. There is a lot of "king james only" people down here who absolutely refuse to consider anything else. I think the main reason that a lot of people still use the king james version is just tradition. It has been used for so many years that it has pretty much become the "industry standard" if you will. People from all walks of life would recognize a king james verse as long as it has a "thee" or a "thou".

Personally speaking I think that it is very important to choose the right translation. In a perfect world go back to the original and read the Hebrew/Aramaic for both the Tanak(Old Testament) AND the Messianic Scriptures(New Testament). I personally use and recommend a translation called "The Scriptures". It is definitely the best translation that I have been able to find. When you start comparing the translation with the original you start finding little inconsistencies with a lot of the translations that we know of. For example, the king james version uses the word easter even though the original never used the word easter, but rather "passover" and easter was never celebrated in scriptures. Also, the king james version uses the word "cross" even though the original uses the word "stake" meaning round pole. The new world translation (jehovah's witness bible) states in john 1:1 "In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." That indefinate article is not in the original and the inclusion states that there is another god; "the word". My point here is not to start a debate on translations, but rather just to show you to prove your preferred translation and be careful.
 
rusty_armor said:
I call it "Name your favorite mistranslation and defend it"

lol, I love that.
 
Melanie said:
I also have a few translations of the Koran with commentaries which is very handy when discussing religion with Muslims.


Melanie,
That is probably a very interesting thing to look into, and maybe scary at the same time? How have your discussions with muslims gone in the past?
 
Todd,

Generally they go very well, i think it's because i listen respectfully. Many Muslims are just as sincere about their faith as we are about ours. If you treat their ideas with respect you get the same in return. Muslims already know of Jesus, they already have a love for him the issue is that they see him as being on par with what they see as a later prophet. Personally, i think terrorism is borne out of frustration, these people do not feel they are being heard. I don't condone what they do but it wont stop unless the root cause is uncovered. Maybe I'm just being a stupid hippy...

I don't find Muslims (or people of any religion or race) or the books they consider holy to be scary at all. If it's not truly of God then it's just fiction.
 
Yo, Melanie:

As one hippy to another ... *grin*

I hear you, on the topic of listening respectfully if we are to get anywhere with our Moslem fellow humans, though I don't have much for the militant beliefs or actions of so many of Mohammed's followers.

But, for fun, I'll toss this into the mix: I saw many teachings of Jesus with a fresh understanding after reading Lao Tsu (Taoism). Didn't hurt a thing, and drew me closer to Jesus with fresh admiration.
 
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