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Is Yoshua or Yahushua biblical?
- Thread starter pebble
- Start date
I spent some time studying this a few years ago, and I came to the conclusion that it was likely that the New Testament was written in Aramaic rather than Greek. Most believe Yeshua (Jesus) also spoke Aramaic, and his name in Aramaic would have been Yeshua. Therefore, that is the way I pronounce His name sometimes when I pray, but I pronounce it Jesus sometimes too. There are those who believe it is important to use the Hebrew or Aramaic pronounciations, as the name of the Messiah is important, but I am not convinced that there is anything wrong with using the name Jesus either.
My name is Robert Cecil Wiedemann.
As a child, I was called Bobby. As an adult, Bob, then Cecil. Honeydear, Sweetheart, Dad, Bro, Brah (?), Tiger, Mr Pug, Sir Bumbleberry, A.....e, Cuz, Cecile, Cec, Mr Wiedemann, Elder Wiedemann. Family, primarily my Mom, sometimes calls me Bobby Cecil or, if I'm being particularly trying, Robert Cecil Wiedemann.
In Korea, I'm called Lee Sa Do. In Taiwan, it is changed to Yi Shr Dao. In Palau, it Bobby was used with lots of giggles, as it approximates their word for pic, and back then I was really skinny.
I'm sure I've missed a few. But what's the point?
In each instance, I know who is being referred to. In most instances, so does everyone else. (Yesterday, my Mom called "Son?", and since both my brother and I were present, she got two replies.)
Personally, I think Jesus is as smart as I am. More actually. Other unseen beings? I'll bet they can figger out who is being addressed regardless of HOW His name is pronounced.
God help us all if I'm wrong!
As a child, I was called Bobby. As an adult, Bob, then Cecil. Honeydear, Sweetheart, Dad, Bro, Brah (?), Tiger, Mr Pug, Sir Bumbleberry, A.....e, Cuz, Cecile, Cec, Mr Wiedemann, Elder Wiedemann. Family, primarily my Mom, sometimes calls me Bobby Cecil or, if I'm being particularly trying, Robert Cecil Wiedemann.
In Korea, I'm called Lee Sa Do. In Taiwan, it is changed to Yi Shr Dao. In Palau, it Bobby was used with lots of giggles, as it approximates their word for pic, and back then I was really skinny.
I'm sure I've missed a few. But what's the point?
In each instance, I know who is being referred to. In most instances, so does everyone else. (Yesterday, my Mom called "Son?", and since both my brother and I were present, she got two replies.)
Personally, I think Jesus is as smart as I am. More actually. Other unseen beings? I'll bet they can figger out who is being addressed regardless of HOW His name is pronounced.
God help us all if I'm wrong!
This is the verse that helped me the most.
Neh 8:17 And allH3605 the congregationH6951 of them that were come againH7725 out ofH4480 the captivityH7628 madeH6213 booths,H5521 and satH3427 under the booths:H5521 forH3588 since the daysH4480 H3117 of JeshuaH3442 the sonH1121 of NunH5126 untoH5704 thatH1931 dayH3117 had notH3808 the childrenH1121 of IsraelH3478 doneH6213 so.H3651 And there wasH1961 veryH3966 greatH1419 gladness.H8057
I think it is clear here that Yeshua is an abreviation/nick name in common usage for the same person that we would have called Yahushua or Joshua.
Sorry for all the Strongs numbers.
Neh 8:17 And allH3605 the congregationH6951 of them that were come againH7725 out ofH4480 the captivityH7628 madeH6213 booths,H5521 and satH3427 under the booths:H5521 forH3588 since the daysH4480 H3117 of JeshuaH3442 the sonH1121 of NunH5126 untoH5704 thatH1931 dayH3117 had notH3808 the childrenH1121 of IsraelH3478 doneH6213 so.H3651 And there wasH1961 veryH3966 greatH1419 gladness.H8057
I think it is clear here that Yeshua is an abreviation/nick name in common usage for the same person that we would have called Yahushua or Joshua.
Sorry for all the Strongs numbers.
Elisheba, what do you conclude from that about what Jesus should be called?
pebble
Member
Hello.
I know God sees into my heart when I call Him so spellings and pronunciations does not really matter, personally.
But the sacred name movement(?), etc. are muddying things up. Now, we know personal biases and opinions are often red/written into biblical texts and articles. In some, the authors writes or make claims that seems to be biblical and then I see "Yahushua." It has somehow becomes a red flag for me and makes me more sceptical than accepting of the idea being presented in the article.
I just want to be sure on "Yahushua" 'cause I might be missing on truths because of all the confusion/deception surrounding His name.
Thanks to all.
I know God sees into my heart when I call Him so spellings and pronunciations does not really matter, personally.
But the sacred name movement(?), etc. are muddying things up. Now, we know personal biases and opinions are often red/written into biblical texts and articles. In some, the authors writes or make claims that seems to be biblical and then I see "Yahushua." It has somehow becomes a red flag for me and makes me more sceptical than accepting of the idea being presented in the article.
I just want to be sure on "Yahushua" 'cause I might be missing on truths because of all the confusion/deception surrounding His name.
Thanks to all.
It occurs to me that Jesus (however you say His name) said that the world will know that we are His disciples by our love.
Apparently that, not the pronunciation of names, is what He deems important.
When / If I am ever satisfied that I have exceeded His expectations & hopes in the Loving Dept., perhaps there will be time to worry about the weightier matters of theology, such as pronunciation as it would have been heard 2000 years ago.
In the meantime, got a lot of loving to catch up on ...
Apparently that, not the pronunciation of names, is what He deems important.
When / If I am ever satisfied that I have exceeded His expectations & hopes in the Loving Dept., perhaps there will be time to worry about the weightier matters of theology, such as pronunciation as it would have been heard 2000 years ago.
In the meantime, got a lot of loving to catch up on ...
To Samuel,
There are many papers written much more eloquently than I myself could write them I was just trying to point out that even in the Scripture there are 2 spellings/pronunciations of Joshua the son of Nun. This is not just in the English but you can look at the Hebrew and see it. So slight differences in pronunciations should probably not be a point of contention.
To be clear though. As I have shared with several of the ladies on this forum, I am Jewish. When I was a Christian I prayed to Jesus as I was taught, as I learned more I switched to praying to Yeshua or Yahushua, and now after studying more I pray to the Father YHVH as Yeshua taught. I appreciate the opportunity to talk with others who revere the Scripture on this Forum even if I do not subscribe to the same beliefs anymore. So if you will bear with me, I would like to just add a couple of thoughts.
Names are important (Ex 20:7) I think not using YHVH's name is also bringing it to nothing. imho
As human beings we will never know it all, but I believe we are responsible to do our best to obey all of the commands; even when we just have a small amount of understanding. (Ex 20:6). Love brings forth acts of obedience.
My almost 2 year old pleases me so much when she tries to help. She takes her plate to the sink and it lands with a deafening crash, but I am just happy that she is helping (and I use metal plates. lol) She tries to tell me Thank you by saying "Taen tu". She says almost everything imperfectly, but I know that for where she is in her growth and development she is doing great!!! Even if we never speak or do all perfectly, I am sure the fact that we are trying to please Him is just as eloquent.
Much Shalom to you all, and thank you for the starting the topic Pebble.
There are many papers written much more eloquently than I myself could write them I was just trying to point out that even in the Scripture there are 2 spellings/pronunciations of Joshua the son of Nun. This is not just in the English but you can look at the Hebrew and see it. So slight differences in pronunciations should probably not be a point of contention.
To be clear though. As I have shared with several of the ladies on this forum, I am Jewish. When I was a Christian I prayed to Jesus as I was taught, as I learned more I switched to praying to Yeshua or Yahushua, and now after studying more I pray to the Father YHVH as Yeshua taught. I appreciate the opportunity to talk with others who revere the Scripture on this Forum even if I do not subscribe to the same beliefs anymore. So if you will bear with me, I would like to just add a couple of thoughts.
Names are important (Ex 20:7) I think not using YHVH's name is also bringing it to nothing. imho
As human beings we will never know it all, but I believe we are responsible to do our best to obey all of the commands; even when we just have a small amount of understanding. (Ex 20:6). Love brings forth acts of obedience.
My almost 2 year old pleases me so much when she tries to help. She takes her plate to the sink and it lands with a deafening crash, but I am just happy that she is helping (and I use metal plates. lol) She tries to tell me Thank you by saying "Taen tu". She says almost everything imperfectly, but I know that for where she is in her growth and development she is doing great!!! Even if we never speak or do all perfectly, I am sure the fact that we are trying to please Him is just as eloquent.
Much Shalom to you all, and thank you for the starting the topic Pebble.
Excellent post, Elisheba!
It really comes down to the question of whether we are trying to please Him or not. How does He feel about how His name is spoken, especially in the light of the fact that names had special meanings. YHWH even changed Abram (Avram, exalted father) to Abraham (Avraham, father of multitudes) in order to reflect his promised new reality. Do we show diminished respect for our Savior when we use a name for Him that does not reflect His sacrifice for us?
In my opinion, the original question should have been; "Is the name Jesus biblical?".
It is the one that cannot be found in non-translated scripture.
It really comes down to the question of whether we are trying to please Him or not. How does He feel about how His name is spoken, especially in the light of the fact that names had special meanings. YHWH even changed Abram (Avram, exalted father) to Abraham (Avraham, father of multitudes) in order to reflect his promised new reality. Do we show diminished respect for our Savior when we use a name for Him that does not reflect His sacrifice for us?
In my opinion, the original question should have been; "Is the name Jesus biblical?".
It is the one that cannot be found in non-translated scripture.
:lol: :?
:shock: :roll: :lol:"Jesus" is derived from the Greek 'Insous. Does not seem to have bothered the Apostles that Yeshua became 'Insous in the Apostolic Writings. Just a thought.
For my part I use "Yeshua"/"Jesus" interchangeably. Not claiming to be an authority ...
Very nice thoughts, Elisheba. Our Father's love towards us, being free if the taint of sin, is even purer than the love we have for our children... so, wow, just try to imagine that love...
Praise be to Him forever and ever!
For my part I use "Yeshua"/"Jesus" interchangeably. Not claiming to be an authority ...
Very nice thoughts, Elisheba. Our Father's love towards us, being free if the taint of sin, is even purer than the love we have for our children... so, wow, just try to imagine that love...
Praise be to Him forever and ever!
Elisheba, I agree we are to pray to the Father not to Jesus, this is not taught properly by the church.
However there are no rules that we should only call Him YHWH - in fact when Jesus taught how we should pray He used the title "Our Father, who art in heaven". Didn't use a name at all. He wasn't saying we must NOT use God's name and must only call Him Father, but He just says the title Father is also ok. So I presume any title or name of God that makes it clear who we are talking to is also fine. If we were only to use YHWH, Jesus would have.
However there are no rules that we should only call Him YHWH - in fact when Jesus taught how we should pray He used the title "Our Father, who art in heaven". Didn't use a name at all. He wasn't saying we must NOT use God's name and must only call Him Father, but He just says the title Father is also ok. So I presume any title or name of God that makes it clear who we are talking to is also fine. If we were only to use YHWH, Jesus would have.
Shalom again!
I agree with you on not saying the name always, however I think it is usually not very clear who we are talking about in this culture unless we use the name some within our conversations. In prayer I tend to use Abba or something of that nature. I tend to use Yah instead of the generic God which could be heard as god and refers to every pagan deity as well. I recently read an article about Elah or Allah...being used throughout the Hebrew text. Yet if I use Allah I am not being very clear still because people in our culture will think I am Muslim. Many use the title Lord. When I look at the Scriptures I see that generally Adonai is used in context of YHVH being said aloud too (at least within a paragraph or so). All this being said, I am not as legalistic as I sound. I don't turn away when people use words that I find less than accurate for the Father. These are the personal choices that our family has made and I am not judging anyone else.
Oh and Samuel I know Yeshua didn't say it all the time, but I think he probably quoted Scripture with the name intact. Like in Luke 13, Blessed is he who comes in the name of the "LORD" It was a quote from the Psalms 118:26. Baruch haba bshem YHVH!
Cecil I think your comment on formality and the Name usage is spot on.
Pebble, I am so glad that you are bringing up all of these topics. I love talking about all these things. I just hope I am not annoying!
Jay J, I think that the Greek was/is a translation and the best they could do. It has been a while so someone correct me on this if needed. At least they didn't have a Y sound so they used the Ie, and they didn't have a sh sound so they used the s, and there was something about the s being added to the end to denote something about deity like other Greek gods, but I can't remember that part very well, I would have to look it up. Anyway, I just think that they were trying to get as close to Yeshua as they could. No judgement from me, and some don't know Yeshua as his name so I use Jesus too, when needed. I really do TRY to be reasonable. lol
I agree with you on not saying the name always, however I think it is usually not very clear who we are talking about in this culture unless we use the name some within our conversations. In prayer I tend to use Abba or something of that nature. I tend to use Yah instead of the generic God which could be heard as god and refers to every pagan deity as well. I recently read an article about Elah or Allah...being used throughout the Hebrew text. Yet if I use Allah I am not being very clear still because people in our culture will think I am Muslim. Many use the title Lord. When I look at the Scriptures I see that generally Adonai is used in context of YHVH being said aloud too (at least within a paragraph or so). All this being said, I am not as legalistic as I sound. I don't turn away when people use words that I find less than accurate for the Father. These are the personal choices that our family has made and I am not judging anyone else.
Oh and Samuel I know Yeshua didn't say it all the time, but I think he probably quoted Scripture with the name intact. Like in Luke 13, Blessed is he who comes in the name of the "LORD" It was a quote from the Psalms 118:26. Baruch haba bshem YHVH!
Cecil I think your comment on formality and the Name usage is spot on.
Pebble, I am so glad that you are bringing up all of these topics. I love talking about all these things. I just hope I am not annoying!
Jay J, I think that the Greek was/is a translation and the best they could do. It has been a while so someone correct me on this if needed. At least they didn't have a Y sound so they used the Ie, and they didn't have a sh sound so they used the s, and there was something about the s being added to the end to denote something about deity like other Greek gods, but I can't remember that part very well, I would have to look it up. Anyway, I just think that they were trying to get as close to Yeshua as they could. No judgement from me, and some don't know Yeshua as his name so I use Jesus too, when needed. I really do TRY to be reasonable. lol
Quite a reasonable position Elisheba, thankyou for your thoughts on this, and I like your relaxed attitude. I really like how everyone is discussing this calmly and in love, lets us all learn more from each other.