Abraham's, not Moses's, and as party to a new and better covenant.
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Is the term Old Covenant ever mentioned in Scripture?
- Thread starter Verifyveritas76
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Abraham's, not Moses's, and as party to a new and better covenant.
Here we go again...
What is that new covenant based on?
Jeremiah 31:33 NASB
[33] "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law (Torah) within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
And Abraham was under the covenant from Sinai?
Until you can prove that torah mentioned here is not a general instruction from God (as in the law and the prophets) as opposed to Torah specifically the stuff given by God through Moses, there’s gonna be a disconnect. And the circle will go round and round and round.
The new covenant that @rockfox is referring to is Abrahams covenant. At the time it was a new covenant, it was based solely on a Melchizedek model, not a Levitical.
So, unless someone else posts later and has an issue with the believer in Christ being a king and priest, I’m gonna assume that we’re all on the same page here. We are each kings and priests over our own home.
T
Then we are back to ,,,, why should we walk like we are in the first marriage? I think I understand where you Hebrew roots guys are coming from as I have looked into that. But I have not been able to get past The book of Hebrews. Is God still working 6 days and resting on the seventh? Nay!! He's in an everlasting Rest. To which we are also called to enter into. That raises enough Questions that I am hesitant to lead my family down that path. Maybe someday the Holy Spirit will lead me down that path. Maybe He will lead you back out of it.
Matthew 24:20 ? Why is the sabbath mentioned if it’s no longer a thing?
I think the reverse is true. The prophets knew and walked Torah, God's standard. You have to prove they redefined it to mean something other than what God gave Moses.
Cap is quoting responding to @Pacman above, who wrote:
"Deuteronomy 11:26-28 [26] "See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: [27] the blessing, if you listen to the commandments of the LORD your God, which I am commanding you today; [28] and the curse, if you do not listen to the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way which I am commanding you today, by following other gods which you have not known."
@Cap, it does say obey. That Hebrew word which your translation lists as "listen" also means "obey" in Hebrew language.
We can't help it if your translation expresses a bias against the ramifications of translating this word correctly in context into English.
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I was working backwards and hadn't yet seen @Pacman already made this point, I'm not gonna delete my post though b/c I like my colorized pithiness
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I'll continue to interact with you when you cede the point made against your over-the-top statement that "Christ nullifed the law".
Here's the point I'd like you to cede, then I'll continue to play with you
There is a Torah command to set up certain people/elders as judges that they may determine legal decisions. For Jews, this is the Talmudic system and why we have it and why we still have batei din (religious courts) today. They make such determinations in the offices they fill as commanded by the Torah.
"They sit in the seat of Moses" as it were. For my Hebrew roots brothers and sisters, I'm not sure how they fulfill this commandment to set up a system of judges to interpret Torah specifics...generate case law, etc.
I think it varies from group to group. Chime in if I'm off on how Hebrew roots handles this.
My observation is that usually they do not observe this commandment to set up a system of judges to make decisions about Torah but they take it on more themselves. (each doing as is right in his own eyes
***tongue in cheek guys ***Is this correct guys?
I just want to point out that most modern torah observance has nothing to do with the priesthood.
It's rare to even find a bonified "priest" outside of the US or Israel (after the Aharonic order).
When we do find a priest, due to a lack of temple he's pretty much limited to just blessing us using the blessing G-d created. That's pretty much the limit of his usefulness today even in straight Judaism.
Yeah they get to read the Torah before others at the synagogue, and they receive shekhel gifts for redemption of the 1st born and such, but as far as active participation goes, even among Jews who know nothing about Yeshua, the "priesthood" today doesn't really do too much so I think it may not be so worthwhile to discuss which priesthood we are after today as that is just a subset of Torah law even among those who keep the law intently and know nothing about the real Messiah... (how much more so those of us who do know the Messiah).
There is a Torah command to set up certain people/elders as judges that they may determine legal decisions. For Jews, this is the Talmudic system and why we have it and why we still have batei din (religious courts) today. They make such determinations in the offices they fill as commanded by the Torah.
"They sit in the seat of Moses" as it were. For my Hebrew roots brothers and sisters, I'm not sure how they fulfill this commandment to set up a system of judges to interpret Torah specifics...generate case law, etc.
I think it varies from group to group. Chime in if I'm off on how Hebrew roots handles this.
My observation is that usually they do not observe this commandment to set up a system of judges to make decisions about Torah but they take it on more themselves. (each doing as is right in his own eyes
Is this correct guys?
I’m so new to this thing that I’m not sure how to answer you. I’m just trying to walk out 1 John 2:3-6 and I don’t label myself as anything but a follower of Yeshua.
But my first reaction is that this responsibility should be handled by the “elders” within the assemblies... although the one I have been attending is not structured enough to really have elders so that isn’t a thing there. And honestly I’m sorta glad it’s not...
C
Cap
Guest
And so with that, who determines how one is to interpret God's Law right now, today?
Who can tell me how to honor the Sabbath? Festival? The Law? Beyond another man's interpretation?
My answer is the Holy Spirit to each individual.
If you can make this claim work I think we should expand the effort and get this "original sin" thing done away with. We never even saw that garden!
Torah is a general instruction from God. My return question would be why would you treat God's instructions differently? Why would a specific instruction have less weight than a general one? Once you admit that God has instructed us to do something the burden of evidence not to do it should be very high.
There was no first marriage. There's been no marriage. We won't be married until the bridegroom comes. And if God is in an everlasting Sabbath now and we observe the Sabbath because He did does that not mean that we should be observing an everlasting Sabbath?