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Is Jesus Christ God in the flesh?

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steve said:
according to the athanasian creed:

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance...............


i am condemned.

if you do not hold to the athanasian creed, you will not condemn me, but then you are condemned for not believing in it.
isn't this fun? :)

steve, the condemned judaizing pharisee
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Only God can condemn a person.....we mere mortals have no such power, whether we agree with you or not.

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Steve, in what book of the Bible is the Athanasian creed found? The Bible is the only book I go to for matters of faith and practice. Sola scriptura.
 
When reading John 3:16 it says "...whosoever believeth in him shall not perish..."

The "him" is Jesus. No where do I see any other qualifiers such as one must also subscribe to certain doctrinal issues or creeds in order to receive salvation.


And here I was thinking that the umbrella of Christianity was large enough. :?
 
"whosoever believeth in him shall not perish"

To believe in Him is to believe in WHO He is. If you don't believe in WHO He is, then you don't believe in Him.

This is where most cults start from...they reduce Jesus to something less than what He is, and therefore deny Him. Then they add on additional requirements in order to be saved. Typically they quickly come to the conclusion that if you are not part of their organization you cannot be saved. Even the Pope a while back made the statement publicly that if you are not Catholic you cannot go to heaven! Within two weeks he recanted...:) so much for infallibility.

Jesus warned us that many would be deceived. He also warned us that if we deny Him (WHO He is) He will deny us before the Father.
 
Scarecrow said:
"whosoever believeth in him shall not perish"

To believe in Him is to believe in WHO He is. If you don't believe in WHO He is, then you don't believe in Him.
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Excellent point !
Many cults believe in "A" Jesus but that doesn't mean they're believing in the "One and Only" Biblical Jesus...The Son of God, both God and man.

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason. “… you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. Notice that Jesus does not deny His claim to be God. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!” The response of the Jews who heard this statement was to take up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15).

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “the Word was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church—the church of God—with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ’Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11, 14:33, 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
 
Maybe the hurdle that people have trouble overcoming is a comparison of an earthly "father" to his son, and our heavenly Father to His Son. Perhaps as an earthly son is separate and distinct from his earthly "father" people think that therefore Jesus must be a separate and distinct god, only from the Father. I would not say that I and my earthly "father" are one, but I would be able to say that I am from my earthly "father". Maybe that distinction is causing problems.

I use "father" (instead of dad) because...
Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
 
Well our power keeps going out due to wind so I will simply state what I believe to be true and then return when the wind has calmed down and continue my reading and complete what I believe to be true.

I do not believe that Christ is God, He was in the Image of God in that He did what God wanted and followed the same precepts.
I believe that before God started creating the world He knew what would happen upon this earth and therefore created Jesus and gave him reign over the earth and have the supremacy over all things so that God might reconcile all things to Himself. In Christ the Deity lives in bodily form and is the fullness of God, but not God. I believe Christ earned his divinity by making the choice to not sin, and having not been under the sin of birth this was possible and due it saying that Christ was the first born and God was never born, Christ cannot be God. But I have much more to say on this and I will return to do so.

Look at Colossians 1:15-20
 
The key phrases you make is " I believe" and "I do not believe" . You
mention the Bible, but you give no scripture. I'm just saying it
would be good to give scripture to back your "beliefs".
Welcome to the forum dd
 
John Whitten said:
Steve, in what book of the Bible is the Athanasian creed found? The Bible is the only book I go to for matters of faith and practice. Sola scriptura.
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i cannot tell you how glad i am to read this. i hope that your fellow "learneds" agree.

steve, not the supposed judaizing pharisee but more of a karaite
 
JazzyTs said:
Well our power keeps going out due to wind so I will simply state what I believe to be true and then return when the wind has calmed down and continue my reading and complete what I believe to be true.

I do not believe that Christ is God, He was in the Image of God in that He did what God wanted and followed the same precepts.
I believe that before God started creating the world He knew what would happen upon this earth and therefore created Jesus and gave him reign over the earth and have the supremacy over all things so that God might reconcile all things to Himself. In Christ the Deity lives in bodily form and is the fullness of God, but not God. I believe Christ earned his divinity by making the choice to not sin, and having not been under the sin of birth this was possible and due it saying that Christ was the first born and God was never born, Christ cannot be God. But I have much more to say on this and I will return to do so.

Look at Colossians 1:15-20
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Welcome to Biblical Families, Jazzy Ts,
I appreciate your interest in this group, but I must remind you that this is primarily Biblical Families. The perspective you just shared about who Christ is, is not Biblical, but is the position taken by many cults. I realize you are being sincere about your beliefs. However, one may be sincere, but sincerely wrong. This issue is really not open for debate. Please see Doc Burkhart's (DocinKorea) explanation above. It is concise, clear and efficiently presents the position of the leadership of Biblical Families. We are here to discuss family issues as they relate to Biblical principles, to encourage each other in marriage, both single and plural. Please do not take this as a personal attack, but we must stand on some solid Biblical truths to enable us to function as a group. We are not a clearinghouse to air divergent doctrinal issues. Who Christ is, is a settled issue. Thanks and enjoy the fellowship. We appreciate your coming.
 
I'm not JazzyTs, I'm his wife and typically I would not speak for him, however, since he is not home at the moment and in the hope of avoiding misunderstanding I will go ahead and say this. First, I have not read this whole thread so if I am speaking out of tern or context, I apologize in advance. Mo.nurse asked for scriptural backing for Jazzy's "beliefs, those I'm sure he would be more than happy to provide because he always does, he just did not have the opportunity since, as he stated in his post, the power kept going out here so he opted to just make his post short, perhaps that was a mistake. I would like for everyone to know that we (my husband and I) are NOT a part of a cult or any organized religious doctrinal organisation. We study the bible and the bible only. We do not take the word of any preacher or scholar or so call "expert" We do as Paul instructed, to do as the Berieans (sp?) did, to look things up for ourselves and find out for ourselves.

My husband really is a good guy y'all and he's not trying to create waves. Yes, he has an extremely strong faith, love and determination for God, the bible, the sacrifice that Christ made for us and for salvation. He loves people and loves to share and fellowship in God's Word as I would hope that we all do and that more in the world would.
We do not adhere to anything that is not in the bible or anything that contradicts biblical teaching. Basicaly, if the bible doesn't say it, we do not believe it; if the bible has scripture that contridicts it, we don't buy it. Everything we believe can be found in the bible otherwise we would not believe it and much less speak of it and we do not say anything that we can not back up with scripture.

*Edit* I did read at the beginning of this thread that although the thread topic was stated as a question, the thread is not a "debate" thread. I am assuming this thread is a statement thread of the viewpoints of this forum and its members?
 
DMetzger said:
I'm not JazzyTs, I'm his wife and typically I would not speak for him, however, since he is not home at the moment and in the hope of avoiding misunderstanding I will go ahead and say this. First, I have not read this whole thread so if I am speaking out of tern or context, I apologize in advance. Mo.nurse asked for scriptural backing for Jazzy's "beliefs, those I'm sure he would be more than happy to provide because he always does, he just did not have the opportunity since, as he stated in his post, the power kept going out here so he opted to just make his post short, perhaps that was a mistake. I would like for everyone to know that we (my husband and I) are NOT a part of a cult or any organized religious doctrinal organisation. We study the bible and the bible only. We do not take the word of any preacher or scholar or so call "expert" We do as Paul instructed, to do as the Berieans (sp?) did, to look things up for ourselves and find out for ourselves.

My husband really is a good guy y'all and he's not trying to create waves. Yes, he has an extremely strong faith, love and determination for God, the bible, the sacrifice that Christ made for us and for salvation. He loves people and loves to share and fellowship in God's Word as I would hope that we all do and that more in the world would.
We do not adhere to anything that is not in the bible or anything that contradicts biblical teaching. Basicaly, if the bible doesn't say it, we do not believe it; if the bible has scripture that contridicts it, we don't buy it. Everything we believe can be found in the bible otherwise we would not believe it and much less speak of it and we do not say anything that we can not back up with scripture.

*Edit* I did read at the beginning of this thread that although the thread topic was stated as a question, the thread is not a "debate" thread. I am assuming this thread is a statement thread of the viewpoints of this forum and its members?
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Thanks for your response. I am not saying that you and your husband are part of any cult, only that that point of view that he expressed is cultish in nature. Please both of you read the entire thread as well as the information on the "About Us" page, under the "Biblical Families heading. This will help save us all a lot of grief. Thanks and to you as well as your husband, WELCOME TO BF!
 
John Whitten said:
Thanks for your response. I am not saying that you and your husband are part of any cult, only that that point of view that he expressed is cultish in nature. Please both of you read the entire thread as well as the information on the "About Us" page, under the "Biblical Families heading. This will help save us all a lot of grief. Thanks and to you as well as your husband, WELCOME TO BF!
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Really? Well, I can't say that I know a whole lot about cults other than what the television showed of the cult in Waco, TX and that, that guy thought HE was Christ! :roll:
I adhere to the "Tri-untiy" of God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit not the "Trinity" belief that the three are one in the same, divided into three parts.
 
Interesting...this guy

http://www.kingdomofjesuschrist.org/

thinks he earned the same position...

One little section form his web site...

"Circumstances led him to a remote area called Kitbog, in Malalag, Cogon, South Cotabato, Philippines. For a year, Pastor Apollo lived with the B'laan people. There he received all kinds of miracles, visions and revelations from the Father. The Bilaans were witness to many of these miraculous occurrences. These miracles and visions were designed by the Father to convince Pastor Apollo that it was He who was calling him. Kitbog was significant in the life of Pastor Apollo because it was here that the Father offered him the spiritual component of salvation. With his freedom of choice intact, he surrendered the spirit of obedience against the will of the Father, the serpent seed, which was implanted in Adam and Eve, by making a promise that from now on Father, not my will but your will be done. As a result of this, the righteous seed, the Spirit of Obedience to the will of the Father, was implanted in his life."

And now his followers say "Bless the Father" when they meet meaning bless Father Apollo. Wild stuff going on these days...
 
Scarecrow said:
Interesting...this guy

http://www.kingdomofjesu.........

thinks he earned the same position...

One little section form his web site...

"Circumstances led him to a remote area called Kitbog, in Malalag, ...
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my guess is that you mean that the site that you cited has the same beliefs as the poster.
i did not understand that and thought that what you meant was that "this guy" was the poster and that this was the poster's site.

i write this to help others avoid the confusion and waste of time that i experienced.

steve, the ever-helpfull non-judaizer
 
John Whitten said:
The Bible is the only book I go to for matters of faith and practice. Sola scriptura.
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Where is sola scriptura found in the Bible?

What is sola scriptura?

Is Sola Scriptura a Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic phrase found in the Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic languages used in the Bible?

Where in the Bible are the many other things Jesus did that are not in the book of John?

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
John 21:25 NIV 2011

Should they have held onto any teachings Paul gave that were by word of mouth and not by letter?

So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings[c] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
[c] 2 Thessalonians 2:15 Or traditions
2 Thessalonians 2:15 NIV 2011

Which book of the Bible gives a complete listing of the books of the Bible?
 
blugrniz4u said:
When reading John 3:16 it says "...whosoever believeth in him shall not perish..."

The "him" is Jesus. No where do I see any other qualifiers such as one must also subscribe to certain doctrinal issues or creeds in order to receive salvation.


And here I was thinking that the umbrella of Christianity was large enough. :?
Click to expand...

believeth in "HIM" not believeth in such and such a teaching said by such and such a Pastor or creed writer? It does not even say believeth in scripture but believeth in "HIM," let alone believeth in the Athanasian creed

(By Jesus below I mean the correct Jesus)

How can someone love Jesus without loving Jesus?

How can someone love God without loving God?

How can someone not love Jesus without not loving Jesus?

How can someone not love God without not loving God?

The "umbrella" of Jesus is large enough for everyone even those who have never seen or heard a Bible but narrow enough to not include anyone who unchangedly chooses not to be included.

Of course someone who believes in Jesus is likely to want to come to and state true conclusions rather then say falsehoods.

Proper doctrine is not a cause of salvation but it can be a result of salvation, since a saved person is likely to want to be a truth-seeker.
 
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