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Introduction: Jonathan

J

Jonathan

New Member
Hey y'all. I have really enjoyed perusing this site for the past week or so. It is refreshing to find a place where people are honestly searching for truth yet aren't hostile or angsty like so many off-the-beaten-path religious sites. So thanks for being awesome! And praise God that his church endures as He promised :)

As for my intro, I'm a young-ish guy in the Northern Virginia area who grew up in a non-denominational Christian home/church. God has been calling me away from my roots, though, as those teachings are being exposed for what they really are. It is so nice to know how God intended us to live, but I am recognizing how difficult it will be to follow through with such a counter-cultural lifestyle. My ambition now is to connect with other believers who can support and encourage the truths I have learned. Even if I never choose to practice PM, I can see that I could find a few of those believers here :)

As for PM, it seems pretty cool. There are two main points that make it attractive to me. First, it seems that I wouldn't have to be as picky in choosing a wife. Since I would rather enter into eternity with one eye than to be damned with both, I definitely have to marry. However, I don't really want to sit around and wait for a 'Proverbs 31' woman. I would much rather get to work building a family and honoring Christ with my body. Secondly, I find that PM could do a great service to our wayward society. I would love to raise children in a household that has such a tangible example of Godly patriarchy.

I've got a few (ehemm, maybe more than a few) questions about PM. Firstly, isn't it illegal in this country? How do y'all manage to respect the law of the land while practicing PM? I'll leave it there for now since this is just an intro. Maybe I'll start a thread elsewhere for other questions as I come to them. Feel free to comment on the rest of my post as well if there's something I've got wrong :) I'm all ears.

~Jonathan
 
Welcome! I too have a mostly non-denominational background and came to PM via independent questioning and researching - realizing some of the core things had no Biblical basis. Monogamy one of them.

Judge for yourself but I believe Proverbs has many encouragements re being very choosy about the friends you keep close company such as "with an angry man do not go." How much more worthwhile is it then to seek a God-honoring woman who will be so much more than a friend?? And God is all powerful, right? So as you're seeking him (his kingdom) first, isn't it easy for him to bring a handful of wonderful women nearby so you can start dating/courting the one that makes your heart sing?
 
Hello and welcome.

Jonathan said:
It seems that I wouldn't have to be as picky in choosing a wife. Since I would rather enter into eternity with one eye than to be damned with both, I definitely have to marry. However, I don't really want to sit around and wait for a 'Proverbs 31' woman.
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Huh? what? Noooooo. No, no, no. Really - no. You have to be just as picky, if not more so. Bad behavior you can get away with for decades in a monogamous marriage will either destroy a poly family or make each and every member of the family a better, stronger person. It takes MORE commitment, MORE maturity, MORE character, MORE everything to make a poly family work. You don't have to sit around waiting for anything. Go live your life - God will send you what you need, when you need it.

OK - well let's define picky. If you are waiting for God to send you a supermodel, with a million dollar bank account so you never need to lift a finger for the rest of your life, then you need to change what you are picking. However, if you have matured beyond that point and are looking for someone to work alongside you in your life's mission then no. No, no, no - don't settle for less.

I saw this article before breakfast and was wondering where to post it. I usually post things like this in "hitting the news today", but it isn't really news. Apparently I am supposed to post it here:

http://goodguyswag.com/the-wife-list-10-qualities/


Jonathan said:
Isn't it illegal in this country? How do y'all manage to respect the law of the land while practicing PM?
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There is a difference between a state recognized marriage and a God recognized marriage. Most of us do not break the law by not getting legally married to more than one person at a time. That said, the laws of polygamy are rapidly becoming blue laws with most states refusing to prosecute even when they have proof that someone goes through with a second state marriage (the second one would be deemed void anyway). Unless there is proof of a major fraud then they are not going to prosecute. Go google the Kody Brown case in Utah - the state tried to drop the case because they knew there was no way the anti-polygamy laws could be upheld. The Browns won the right to continue fighting it in order to de-criminalize their lifestyle choice. He is only legally married to one wife, but Utah is a state that has laws against living with other women and presenting them as wives. Note that the Browns are not attempting to make polygamy legal. Most agree that can never happen because it is written into the constitution (of Utah, not sure about USA), but they can get the states to de-criminalize the lifestyle, thereby removing the constant fear and threat that people live under.

Poke around, read, ask questions. It is good to have you here :D
 
Yea, when my head hit the pillow last night I realized that my post didn't quite say what it wanted to say. I totally agree with being very selective in terms of the quality of a mate (or two). What I should have said is that there are a lot of sides to my personality. It just seems a bit too much to ask for one person to reflect/share all of them. That is where the word 'picky' came from - I have been under the impression that such a person could exist. I find it much more realistic to have a relationship where multiple wives could eventually share my varied traits and interests.

Thanks for the warm welcome! And I will look into that case you mentioned, eternitee.
 
Yes...one of the benefits for women in this marriage structure is that you do not have to be all things to all people. Women - especially "good Christian" women - tend to burn out trying to be perfect. Polygamy allows you to play to your strengths and avoid things you cannot stand doing. If nobody wants to do it and you volunteer then nobody gets to be mad at you for not doing it well enough or to their standards :D

I understand where you are coming from now.
 
Generally polygamy is not prosecuted in this country, unless there are other issues, such as abuse, or welfare fraud, etc.

In the Brown case they had to prosecute because they were on TV. Then, when it looked like the prosecution was going to lose, they wanted to drop the case, but the judge would not let them. The Browns want to win the case to de-criminalize polygamy for everyone, and I hope they do. They have a very good lawyer and I expect they will be successful.

Having said the above, straight prosecution is not the only thing one has to worry about from the state. For example, polygamy could put you at a serious disadvantage in a custody case. So, sadly, single mothers who may need good husbands are often at more risk when joining a polygamous family. If CPS is called and start to investigate your family, polygamy might be equated with abuse no matter what the dynamic is at home, etc.

It is hoped that if polygamy is de-criminalized that a lot of these other issues will go away, too.

Polygamy is harder, but for many the hardship is worth the blessing.

And welcome to the forum!
 
In my divorce case my female attorney basically told me that given the current climate, the judge really was not going to put much interest in the word polygamy and it really does not have the shock value that you would have expected even a few years ago. She was right - it was not a factor in any of their considerations. If anything everyone was bending over to show just how tolerant they were to the point they were overlooking glaring red flags that they would normally react negatively to.
 
Note that in most countries polygamy, if we mean living with two women as a family, is not illegal at all. It can only be pulled up using specific laws on related matters, which differ from place to place.

1) Getting two legal marriage licenses is the offense of bigamy in many countries. Easily avoided.

2) Laws against cohabitation, which the Browns were pulled up on. These only exist in Utah, Texas and one other state, I don't think they exist anywhere else in the world. They have been introduced purely as a means of repressing the Mormon church so are very unusual.

3) Laws against adultery (using the secular definition) will still exist in some places, and could land a polygamist in jail. Easily avoided by not getting a marriage license for any wife.

Check the laws where you live. Polygamy is generally legal, you may just have to avoid getting done on a technicality by avoiding marriage licenses or crossing a state border.
 
FollowingHim said:
2) Laws against cohabitation... have been introduced purely as a means of repressing the Mormon church so are very unusual.
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Funny thing is that these laws were introduced in essence BY the Mormon church, which is in vehement denial of its polygamist roots, which it "sold for a mess of pottage" (i.e. gave up in exchange for public legitimacy and Utah statehood). Those who embrace the roots and go "plyg" are an embarrassment to the LDS establishment. A mortal threat, in fact.

In the Mormons' going back-and-forth over this, they've come to think that they own polygamy. Not only that, but marriage in general. Which is why the LDS church thought it was okay, as a tax-exempt religious organization, to nevertheless engage in heavy lobbying for passage of California's Proposition 8 limiting marriage to one man and one woman. For them, opposing gay marriage was only a surface issue; underneath they were saying by God this'll stick it to those damned plygs. Once you're in denial about something this deep, you have to be leader of the zealots for fear someone will find you out.

FollowingHim said:
Polygamy is generally legal, you may just have to avoid getting done on a technicality by avoiding marriage licenses or crossing a state border.
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Or embarrassing those in power, be they anyone from government officials to the caseworker at your door.
 
Jonathan,

Personalities and interests are of varying importance to people. While some men would have a wife at their side in every daily endeavor or interest, others opt for the balancing traits. I encourage you to consider the end result in all things. Regarding marriage, that would be a helpmate for life. Remember who you were five years ago? How about ten, fifteen, and beyond for those blessed in years? How different we all are. Know that you will continue to change, as will she. Realize your own imperfections, and improve. By doing so an example is set and credence is given to encourage the same of a spouse ( or anyone for that matter ).

Accept that there are no guaranteed steps, be the best steward you can be in all things to multiply that which is good. Personally, I am wary of checklists in regards to any relationship. Can you think of anything as complex? Understanding myself is often an impossible task. I continue to make decisions, take action, and respond to life's inputs in ways I would not have expected or could not have imagined a scenario for causation. I would be foolish to think knowing my wife's current traits and interests guaranteed the same in the future.

You will never know the future shape of a fruit tree's branches or the number of its leaves. But you may judge its fruit at any moment: barren, bitter, hearty, sweet. Relationships are similar. Start with the good tree, know you will both change with age, invest the time to nourish the tree throughout your life, and in doing so you may take notice of its changes with interest and understanding. Otherwise, you risk damaging the tree for lack of nourishment and loosing it for lack of recognition.

So, welcome to the group! I'm new to the site as well and looking forward to the development of further friendships for the purpose of fellowship and accountability.

~Bryan & Family
 
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