How do you communicate with God?

[pebble]

Hello.

Prayer is communicating with God.

We talk to Him, He listens. He talks to us, we listen and do His instructions.

We should pray to Him in the spirit. How de we put our selves "in the spirit?"

The spirit is supposed to be independent of our mind, body, and soul?

How do you "listen" to God? I'm not talking about hearing voices inside our heads.

Do you "feel it" in your "conscience." I put them inside quotes because these things are very difficult to ascertain.

Some say intuition or gut feeling has something to do with it.

Me, I "listen" to what I "feel" or to my "conscience" and check it with the Bible. If everything fits then its a go. Aside from praying daily for His guidance in everything I do so I may walk the path He has prepared for me.

Thanks.

 

[Tali]

Many of us believe in receiving the infilling of the Holy Spirit and praying in the Spirit as discussed in the book of Acts.

Some people actually do hear the voice of God inside their heads, others get impressions of concepts. Sometimes He seems to speak through circumstances, music and media. There is no one way to hear from God, in my opinion. What is important, as you said, is that it must line up with the Word of God.

 

[Southlander]

My short answer: First, lectio divina. That is, start by meditating on Scripture and praying Scripture at least daily, and especially the Psalms. While your intuition (or whatever name you want to apply to it) is important, it must not be the primary mode here. To my mind that it putting the cart before the donkey. A very solid grounding in Scripture is the foundation. And making the Psalms, canticles, and prayers of Scripture your own by adopting them and using them will bring a depth of meaning from Scripture that you cannot get from simply reading or reading about Scripture.

Second, quietude at certain set times per day. Morning and evening are the best for most folks. How long depends on you, of course. I like using the Morning and Evening prayers from the Book of Common Prayer because a schedule of Scripture readings and Psalms are part of the arrangement. The Psalmist says, "Be still, and know that I am the Lord." It's the whole Mary/Martha dichotomy. You can't choose the better part when you are "concerned about many things." Let these set times be restricted to Scripture and prayer save only for the most pressing of matters. And then be still in your spirit. Just wait on God for at least a few minutes of these times. He can speak over you, but He won't speak over you, so if you're busy saying things to Him, He won't answer you.

Finally, get a spiritual director. This will be a very mature Christian to whom you can throw your feelings and ideas and have them give you an honest response that will be measured and honest. You will be, in some ways, answerable to them -- but not in a familial way. This will be someone whose wisdom has been manifest and whose advice is trustworthy, and who has a manifest prayer life of their own. And it will be someone that you will not hide anything of importance from. Clergy members are often the best choice, but certainly not always. The most humble house wife can be just as good a spiritual director as the highest churchman.

These three are far more important than any other elements I could suggest. And each of us "hears" God in different ways. Some of us get intuition level feelings. Some of us get visions. Some of us "hear" God through our disabilities (like St. Paul's thorn in the flesh). Those particulars will be between you and God.

 

[CharityNeverFaileth]

I would like for you to consider this passage from the King James Version:
1 John 4:1-4
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: Because many false prophets are gone out of the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

So we are to ask any all voices that we hear if they come in the flesh of Jesus Christ if you hear nothing then it is not of God, but the voices that come from God will confess that Jesus Christ has come into the flesh and those voices are from God.

Hope this may help you in discerning voices.

 

[steve]

a "spiritual director".
now there is a new one on me.

 

[Southlander]

a "spiritual director".
now there is a new one on me.

It's not a term you hear from Protestant sources too often. Mostly in the US it is used by Catholics and Episcopalians (and Continuing Anglicans).

 

[CecilW]

Might the rest of us use a term like Mentor?

Are you more or less describing the relationship between Paul & Timothy, Southlander?

 

[Joe386]

Might the rest of us use a term like Mentor?

I like the idea of having a Mentor, a trusted man of God (or woman of God, as the case may be) who helps us along.

Titus 2:2,6-8 tells "Aged Men" to Teach/Mentor "Young Men."
Likewise Titus 2:3-5 says, "Aged Women" should Teach/Mentor "Young Women."

Also Pro 27:17 says, "17 Iron sharpens iron;
so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend."

The "but" comes in at the idea I get when I hear the word "Dictator" I can't help thinking of some kind of political ruler who has the last word on everything said, done or thought. Sounds like a recipe for brainwashing. I pray I got that part wrong...

The value of knowing scripture should not be overlooked. Compare scripture with scripture... this goes much better if you have it in your heart to begin with, then compare the message you "Feel" you are getting from God with his Word. God never contradicts Himself...Never trust a "Feeling," or just one friend for that matter. Feelings are felt by human emotions and can be easily fooled. So Always use scripture as a foundation...

The Bible says out of the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established. In John 5, Jesus said there are three that bear witness of me... The Word, the Father and the Works,
I would only add; do not subject yourself to just one so-called "spiritual dictator"... IMHO

I would also agree with CNF,

1 John 4:1
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: Because many false prophets are gone out of the world. ..."

Test the spirits...

 

[steve]

joe,
I agree with you, but you have the word wrong. it is director, not dictator.
it still conveys more of a sense of control than does the word "mentor", or even "teacher".

 

[Joe386]

joe,
I agree with you, but you have the word wrong. it is director, not dictator.
it still conveys more of a sense of control than does the word "mentor", or even "teacher".

LOL, Sorry... honest mistake... :lol: I guess my prayer was answered,

I pray I got that part wrong...

I agree, the two words(dictator and director), even though not exactly synonyms, both carry a bit too much control for an adolescent or even a mature Christian.

Steve,
What is your take, if a newborn Christian who has never been around the Bible and knows virtually nothing about how to be a Christian and who has no friends who can help him/her along the way biblically. He/she is like a tender reed, easily bruised.

If a newborn baby Christian were in the right biblical atmosphere they would have an advantage over a Christian who grew up in a dry church, twice dead, plucked up by the roots with Ichabod over the front door. With the only exception I can think of being, the time reading and digesting the Word of God, even in a dead atmosphere, when introduced to a living spiritual atmosphere, the Word they have in them can ignite and an epiphany occurs. However,

Question: Given the previous, 1. Would it be better to have a "Spiritual Director" for a newborn Christian if a mentor or teacher can not be found? 2. Then, how would the adolescent Christian find a Godly Mentor/Teacher?

 

[CecilW]

IMO, we all start as spiritual babes.

Even when we think we've grown, it may turn out that we're spiritual babes in another area.

This being the case, I've got no problem with director or mentor being used interchangably for the one who points you down the right road.

There was, however, a movement awhile back. Have forgotten the precise term. But they took it lots further. Those who claimed more spiritual advancement claimed a whole freakin' bunch of authority over those the declared to be less advanced. Got UGLY, so I understand. Not so good.

So, perhaps it would depend upon the individual's interpretation of the term, with the suggestion that we can point each other to God, but best keep our eyes on Him, not the one pointing.

 

[welltan]

In my humble opinion most people never communicate with God. Rather, they role play God and themselves in a mental exercise. They pray to their God, and heavy on “their God”. They create God in their own image or rather in their own imagination. Communication or prayer with/to God often is a self-deception of religious jargon and impressions of what God might have said if God had been here.

Often, even during the prayer, they give up the whole endeavor of talking to God and subconsciously admit to themselves that they might not really be talking to anyone, let alone God. At this point their prayer switches to describing (recreating) God rather than talking to God.

Examples (not always wrong but can be self-deception)

'Oh, great and mighty Father', (if this is part of worship then fine, but if just embossing the prayer then not, and why do we need to convince God that he is not suffering from insecurities?). And, 'who knowest all things' (true, but often seems to continue by telling God what he doesn't know, or except for the things one forgets to tell God that he knows). And, ‘come now and hear our prayer’ (If he needs to be told it is time to hear the prayer, than God would not have heard someone telling him it is time to hear). ‘Please heal our brother/sister, or perform some other request’, (I believe in healing, but often a prayer for something is just an exit strategy to do nothing after the prayer rather than be active in a healing, such as fasting and holy spirit intercession. In this possible deception if the brother /sister recovers, then we give God credit. If our brother/sister dies then the death becomes an instrument of God bringing peace/rest to the sick brother). Either way, there is little motivation to affirm or confirm an actual request made it through, especially if no one is ever healed. If someone has never had a prayer answered, then something needs reevaluated.

Two things might help. When you pray, do it out of earshot of your Bible. God does not need us quoting scripture to him. Also, God will never enter into a conversation with you if you think God can not talk, What’s the point if God can not talk? If all of God and God’s word is contained in the leatherback Bible then you don’t really want to add to the Bible by creating a forum with God. God might say something and it would be your fault for letting God do it, which is incorrectly supposed to bring a curse on you. (John did speak a curse for adding or subtracting from the Revelation, but never directed a curse on his God for talking or for someone listening to God saying something beside scripture recitation.)

The second thing is for us to talk as freely as the disciples did to Christ. It is ok to be honest here, Christ ascended and is not physically here to talk to. That’s ok, Christ has you covered. He sent the Comforter, the Holy Spirit to enable the conversation to start/continue. Forget trying to perfect your style of prayer, rather, be filled with the Holy Spirit, and don’t thump your brother/or sister that God talks to/with.

A mental image of what you think God is, sadly is just another idol/image you have created and will in no way keep you out of damnation/ eternal separation from God. And you already start this separation, when you insist that God no longer can talk.

Covered by Christ’s blood shed, and empowered by the Holy Spirit filled, will keep you busy enough to not get bogged down in a meditation of who God is, or which part of my psyche did I leave God in, last time I tried to pray.

 

[steve]

1. Would it be better to have a "Spiritual Director" for a newborn Christian if a mentor or teacher can not be found?

it would seem to me that a director would more involve themselves in "directing" a persons spiritual walk, in other words injecting themselves and their concepts between the worshiper and YHWH.
a TRUE mentor or teacher will introduce a person to relationship with YHWH and help them to understand communication with Him and His Son. read the verses below: we are not to take ascendency over one another, but we are brothers. we are to mentor each other, share with each other what we have learned (teaching each other).
we are a royal priesthood, ALL of us! EACH of us! we all have different levels of understanding in different areas, but we are to share with each other as brothers. not lording it over each other.

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

how do we find brothers who have the understanding and grace to mentor us? we don't. we look to the heavens, from whence cometh our help. our help cometh from the Lord. talk to Him, do not beg Him but talk to Him about you concerns and desires. He cares about you and if your focus is on Him He will not ignore you. He desires your relationship, it is why He made us. He will bring others alongside of us to help us grow, but will not bring overseers to direct us.

I would encourage anyone to read the thread viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3948 (hebrew thinking). it is a bit long, but it identifies some of the reasons that we see things differently than the way that Yeshua was teaching.

 

[Southlander]

Might the rest of us use a term like Mentor?

Are you more or less describing the relationship between Paul & Timothy, Southlander?

Yes, Cecil. That is the sort of thing I am thinking of. The name you use is not important, the fact that you're in submission to someone who can guide and direct with maturity and wisdom is.

 

[Southlander]

The "but" comes in at the idea I get when I hear the word "Dictator" I can't help thinking of some kind of political ruler who has the last word on everything said, done or thought. Sounds like a recipe for brainwashing. I pray I got that part wrong...

You did get that part wrong. I wrote "director", not "dictator." It's just someone who helps direct your spiritual life. They have no ultimate control of any kind or level. They are there as a gentle guide who knows you personally and well.

Hope that clarifies it for you.

 

[Southlander]

It appears that several have gotten hung up on the term "director." Let me offer some clarification here:

1) The spiritual director is not someone who controls any choice you make. They are there to advise you based on a previous relationship with you, their own spiritual maturity, and with the explicit understanding that you and they are both free to make your (or their) own choices to believe/act or not. This is not a relationship of ruler to peasant. This is a relationship of the wiser elder sibling to the younger, inextperienced one, with the understanding that both will answer to the Parent.

2) Whether you call them "spiritual director", "spiritual father" (like St. Paul called himself to those he served), "mentor" (as Cecil suggested), or "anamchara" (which is what the Celtic Christians called them; it means literally "soul friend") is irrelevant. You could call them the Grand Poobah if you like. St. Paul condemns quibbling about words in 1 Timothy 6:4. Look to the content, not the label. We all know that McDonald's ads show a huge, juicy hambuger, but when you buy one, even the Quarter Pounder is barely larger than an adult's hand in diameter and often isn't even juicy, right?

Here's what I hoped people could see "under the label." One of the ways that God speaks to us is through the mouths of humans. In the context of this thread, I have found that my own spiritual directors (and I have had several over the years) have been a great encouragement, but have also steered me away from disaster, too. They are not superior to Scripture, they are simply one of many possible ways that God speaks to us.

I hope that clears things up a bit.

 

[CecilW]

Thx, Southlander. That's what I figured you meant. I've had immense help from friends of that sort my ownself.

Also experienced folks who wanted to be the other sort (take control), so guess I have to understand the wariness of those who were concerned.

Anyway, by whatever term, the right sort are a great blessing, have helped me in my own walk with God, and some are to be found right here on BibFam.

Sounds like you might turn out to be one of them.

 

[pebble]

Hello.

I'm very open to having a spiritual director or mentor but how would I know that a person is already "mature" in Christ?

A few months back, my wife wanted wanted me to talk with some mutual friends whom she deems more "Christian" than I am regarding my belief in biblical polygyny. But how can I even discuss my faith with people who will readily dismiss polygamy as a concept that has something to do with being a Christian, much less accept its practice as biblical truth.

Please understand that I am in the phase where I'm still dealing with the pain caused by hurting the persons whom I've sworn to protect from all the hurts in the world. It's a matter of trust. Seems like almost everybody around me would like me to unlearn the truth, that's why I'm wary of talking with other Christians who have not accepted polygyny as part of God's truth.

I an not even sure if I am ever going to have a second wife but my belief (*) is going to be a stumbling block. For instance, what if in my conversation with my mentor, I'll bring up that attractive single girl signing in the choir last Sunday. Would I'd be chastised for being in danger of committing adultery in my heart?

BTW, does being a "mature" Christian includes the acceptance of the God's whole truth? Not just the parts we like or conform to our personal and cultural biases?

A prosperous new year to all!


* I am not particularly rooting for polygyny. I only believe it is as valid as monogamy and people should be free to make informed decisions.

 

[FollowingHim]

I think a good "mentor"-type person would be someone who is willing to examine every issue from the Word, even when it is uncomfortable. I don't think they need to actually agree with you on everything - in fact I think it would be better if they disagreed on many issues, as that means your thoughts will be examined and challenged more critically and you both will learn something. They just need to have a high appreciation of the Bible as being the ultimate authority rather than the words of man.

I doubt anybody someone else is trying to put you under the authority of would be appropriate, because that attitude says "you're wrong and I need to fix you", which is completely the wrong place to start from. A suitable person would be someone you have personally been impressed by through your own experience.

Disclaimer: I have never had such a mentoring relationship with anybody. Possibly I should have!

A few months back, my wife wanted wanted me to talk with some mutual friends whom she deems more "Christian" than I am regarding my belief in biblical polygyny. But how can I even discuss my faith with people who will readily dismiss polygamy as a concept that has something to do with being a Christian, much less accept its practice as biblical truth.

We do need to have those conversations. How else would the other people learn to examine the Bible better, unless someone like you challenges them on it?

I have the opposite issue - I now gather that there are people I know who disagree with me on polygamy but are unwilling to discuss it with me because they know they cannot defeat the arguments I will make from scripture (or rather, think that I will "twist" scripture to support polygamy using cunning words they can't refute - depends what your attitude is when you describe it!). This prevents me from having such conversations, because people prefer to stick their fingers in their ears than hear something that might make them uncomfortable. If you know people who ARE willing to discuss this with you, go for it - that's an opportunity, not a problem!

You never know, they might actually show you that you are wrong - highly unlikely in this case of course! But always keep an open mind on non-essential issues like this, if you're unwilling to examine your own thoughts critically you can't expect others to examine theirs in the same fashion.

 

[pebble]

Hello.

We do need to have those conversations. How else would the other people learn to examine the Bible better, unless someone like you challenges them on it?

Actually, I've been thinking why this is happening to me at this point in my life. There seems to be a teeny tiny voice that keeps repeating, "so you're gonna be one of those whose going to stand for the truth." :mrgreen:

So, this may be my baby steps.