So do the elders and bishops fall under the five fold ministry?
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Heis and Mia
- Thread starter NetWatchR
- Start date
I would say they do. That word "Pastor" is poimane, translated everywhere else as Shepherd.
Therefore, I exhort the elders (presbuteros) among you, as your fellow elder (presbuteros) and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, shepherd (poimane) the flock of God among you, exercising oversight (overseer, bishop) not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock.…
I have taken this verse to link the following words, when used to describe a church office, as describing the same office:
Pastor, Shepherd, Elder, Presbyter, Overseer, and Bishop.
Otherwise when he brings up 'pastor' in the five fold ministry passage, he does so without any form of context to tell you what a pastor actually is. When we allow that Peter ties them together for us, we find we have an abundance of information about their qualifications, job duties, and common practices.
Any form of hierarchy between stations with these names (i.e. a head pastor with a board of elders under him) is, in my judgment, a mistake that is not necessary for the Church to bear.
Therefore, I exhort the elders (presbuteros) among you, as your fellow elder (presbuteros) and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, shepherd (poimane) the flock of God among you, exercising oversight (overseer, bishop) not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock.…
I have taken this verse to link the following words, when used to describe a church office, as describing the same office:
Pastor, Shepherd, Elder, Presbyter, Overseer, and Bishop.
Otherwise when he brings up 'pastor' in the five fold ministry passage, he does so without any form of context to tell you what a pastor actually is. When we allow that Peter ties them together for us, we find we have an abundance of information about their qualifications, job duties, and common practices.
Any form of hierarchy between stations with these names (i.e. a head pastor with a board of elders under him) is, in my judgment, a mistake that is not necessary for the Church to bear.
I think Ephesians are talking about offices of people that yes have certai skill sets and gifts but they are not gifts themselves but people in positions that have gifts that help them administer in their offices.
My reasoning is simply that there is no mention of the gift of apostling or Pastoring. Also these here in Ephesians are nouns not verbs. The gifts of Romans and 1 Corinthians are verbs because they are not positional but actions done by the body as a whole.
Obviously somebody that is a prophet must have the gift of prophecy and every teacher may have the gift of teaching or words of wisdom or knowledge yet there is I believe a difference between the positions Paul talks about in Ephesians and the gifts in the other passages.
My reasoning is simply that there is no mention of the gift of apostling or Pastoring. Also these here in Ephesians are nouns not verbs. The gifts of Romans and 1 Corinthians are verbs because they are not positional but actions done by the body as a whole.
Obviously somebody that is a prophet must have the gift of prophecy and every teacher may have the gift of teaching or words of wisdom or knowledge yet there is I believe a difference between the positions Paul talks about in Ephesians and the gifts in the other passages.
I think Ephesians are talking about offices of people that yes have certai skill sets and gifts but they are not gifts themselves but people in positions that have gifts that help them administer in their offices.
My reasoning is simply that there is no mention of the gift of apostling or Pastoring. Also these here in Ephesians are nouns not verbs. The gifts of Romans and 1 Corinthians are verbs because they are not positional but actions done by the body as a whole.
Obviously somebody that is a prophet must have the gift of prophecy and every teacher may have the gift of teaching or words of wisdom or knowledge yet there is I believe a difference between the positions Paul talks about in Ephesians and the gifts in the other passages.
My reasoning is simply that there is no mention of the gift of apostling or Pastoring. Also these here in Ephesians are nouns not verbs. The gifts of Romans and 1 Corinthians are verbs because they are not positional but actions done by the body as a whole.
Obviously somebody that is a prophet must have the gift of prophecy and every teacher may have the gift of teaching or words of wisdom or knowledge yet there is I believe a difference between the positions Paul talks about in Ephesians and the gifts in the other passages.