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Growing through the scriptures

The Duke Of Marshall

The Duke Of Marshall

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Ok, so I used to be a good ole southern baptist and everything that is involved. However in recent years "research" has won over top of "blind faith". In as much I was kicked out of a local Messianic Synagogue due to my belief in plural marriage and my association with Biblical Families. (And on Yom Kippur of all days) So without local fellowship it's been a very slow go for me learning and implementing the actual Scriptural Holy Days/Holidays and was wondering if anyone had any good links or resources to give me on the history, implementation, process, etc of the Holy Days/Holidays that are in the Scriptures. I pretty much know the basic story behind each one. But the more information I can get the better off I'll be. Thanks in advance.
 
Check out Dr. Fruchtenbaum's site. I think he even has a work just on the OT feasts and holy days that he has authored. I know at the Messianic training center he and those who work with him teach a course or so on that and this is likely one of the works they use.

www.ariel.org
 
Dr. K.R. Allen said:
Check out Dr. Fruchtenbaum's site. ......................
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I was wondering when you were going to send me his link. lol, jk. But thanks for the link. I'll have to check that out when I get a chance. Still haven't gotten around to reading those books of his that you gave me yet.
 
Ephraim said:
Hi Todd
Are you familiar with John Parsons? He has a lot of info on his site, the best source online that I know of. Everything is printable and meant to be used. Here’s a link.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/holidays.html
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I'm not familiar with John Parsons, but will be shortly now that you sent me his link. Sorry I haven't been that active online in the forums lately, but glad to see that you still are. It was a blessing to have you at the Georgia retreat last year. Are you and your family planning on any this year?
 
The Duke Of Marshall said:
Dr. K.R. Allen said:
Check out Dr. Fruchtenbaum's site. ......................
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I was wondering when you were going to send me his link. lol, jk. But thanks for the link. I'll have to check that out when I get a chance. Still haven't gotten around to reading those books of his that you gave me yet.
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:lol: well why certainly!

The John Parsons one is a good one as well. He even gave the ole Fruch a five star rating for his site. I need to ask Arnold if he knows John Parsons.

Hummmm....have not read those books yet, well with all of this snow it might be a good time to curl up in a blanket and do some reading. :D

When you do I'd start with the black one. It is very easy reading. I think you'll just love it.

Enjoy the snow and stay warm brother!
 
The Duke Of Marshall said:
Ok, so I used to be a good ole southern baptist and everything that is involved. However in recent years "research" has won over top of "blind faith". In as much I was kicked out of a local Messianic Synagogue due to my belief in plural marriage and my association with Biblical Families. (And on Yom Kippur of all days) So without local fellowship it's been a very slow go for me learning and implementing the actual Scriptural Holy Days/Holidays and was wondering if anyone had any good links or resources to give me on the history, implementation, process, etc of the Holy Days/Holidays that are in the Scriptures. I pretty much know the basic story behind each one. But the more information I can get the better off I'll be. Thanks in advance.
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Check out a fine series that Michael Rood has done on both the spring and fall feasts, Todd. "Prophecies in the Feasts of the Lord" (which includes a set on both the Spring Feasts representing His first coming, and the Fall Feasts yet to come) is an excellent introduction, and the "Jonah Code" may be the best single exposition of the details of Pesach and the nuances of His teaching and ministry that I have yet seen.

So far as "Torah 101" is concerned, some of Monty Judah's (lionlamb.net) articles are great short summaries, although most are specific to individual topics or specific feasts. The articles are all readily available on-line; a few examples:
http://lionlamb.net/v3/YAVOHHeisComing/2003/03
http://lionlamb.net/v3/YAVOHHeisComing/2008/03
http://lionlamb.net/v3/YAVOHHeisComing/2004/03

He also has a CD called "Sabbath and the Biblical Feasts" which is pretty good, as well.

PS> Bear in mind, of course, that many "Messianic synagogues" have gone overboard on the "traditions of men" just as the mainstream church did. Same disease, ultimately same symptoms. For those reasons, both the local fellowship, and the on-line (paltalk) ministry with which I participate, have come to refer to ourselves as the "church of NO traditions"...and try to avoid the labels as well. The Hebrew word "netzir", for branch, gives the right flavor, but "ToBe", for 'Torah-Observant-Believer', seems to be catching on. Even with His moedim, it is important to distinguish between what is really Written, and what has come to be called "commanded", but is often just more tradition. There is often some value to tradition, particularly when it helps explain context or improve understanding, but it is not Scripture.
 
Mark C said:
PS> Bear in mind, of course, that many "Messianic synagogues" have gone overboard on the "traditions of men" just as the mainstream church did. Same disease, ultimately same symptoms. For those reasons, both the local fellowship, and the on-line (paltalk) ministry with which I participate, have come to refer to ourselves as the "church of NO traditions"...and try to avoid the labels as well. The Hebrew word "netzir", for branch, gives the right flavor, but "ToBe", for 'Torah-Observant-Believer', seems to be catching on. Even with His moedim, it is important to distinguish between what is really Written, and what has come to be called "commanded", but is often just more tradition. There is often some value to tradition, particularly when it helps explain context or improve understanding, but it is not Scripture.
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I've come to notice that as well. That more and more priests, preachers, rabbis, churches, synagogues, ministries, etc are developing their own doctrine which usually consists of "We're the authority. You obey us. And by the way we just created a new book/cd that you need to buy." Denomination is nothing more than a synonym for division. And a house divided will not stand. That's why I usually don't label myself with any denominational name, but rather just state that most of what I have found out through objective research falls more in line with Messianics than anyone else.

Thanks for the links by the way. Looks like there is plenty on that site to look over and research.
 
Todd,

I am so glad to hear that you are exploring the feasts, and boy, do I understand the reference to making "slow progress!" We are in the same boat, knowing that the time of the Gentiles is coming to an end, fully aware that for a seemingly inexplicable reason ;) Christians of all types and stripes have a new found desire to celebrate the feasts, and all the while feeling a bit nervous about coming under the sway of the lord of legalism. It is good to know that we are on the journey together.

Hope to see you at the conference, Marine.

Shalom to you and your beauty,
Ali
 
Ali,
I can see it as well. Little by little, more and more people are coming out from the spell of rome and are returning to the Scriptures. The feasts, calendar, instructions, etc.

I used to think of it as legalism as well back when I was still under my good old southern baptist mindset. Now I realize that it is not legalism at all, but rather submission. Once I accepted the fact that I was not smarter than Yahuweh, that Yahuweh loved me/us enough to give us instructions for living better and closer to him, I then submitted to Him and His instructions and I am living so much better and so much free-er. The roman mindset that we are smarter and know better than the almighty and that we can do whatever we want is nothing more than slavery. Once I knew the truth, and submitted, I was free indeed.

I will definitely be there this weekend. Well, pending any major disaster. Hope to see you guys there as well.
 
Todd,

One of the most sinister covert ops of the renegade romans has been to co opt the way we approach studying the Scriptures.Graeco-roman thinking versus Hebraic thinking,( the Hebraic being far more intuitive,) as clearly was the way of the patriarchs, and obviously Yeshua. Meditating on the scripture in the presence of and with help from the Holy Spirit is what we are taking baby steps toward. One man calls it "anointed reasoning," a term I personally like.

Once that is in place, I think many other things will come together and the the journey won't be so slow. It's a dicey balance between head knowledge and heart knowledge. :?

It is not that I don't enjoy what other dead guys have to say, and to consider what they feel God showed them, it is more about the responsibility of the believer to meditate day and night on the Scriptures, and more importantly, the Author. It is a means to intimacy, which is what our walk is supposed to be about in the first place.
 
Ali,
That's a good point about meditation. I had completely forgotten about that even though I NOW remembering reading about it in the scriptures. Thanks for bringing that up.

The mindset is a good point you brought up as well. I never started growing or really learning for that matter until I stopped using the monkey in the pulpit or devotionals as a crutch/substitute for my growth. It wasn't until after I started studying for myself, straight from the scriptures, that I really started getting knowledge and wisdom. And even then it wasn't until after awhile of this studying that I started connecting dots on different subjects.

I do, however, use a couple of external resources that are straight forward and non-biased either way such as Strong's concordance. Personally speaking, I have come to despise devotionals. Of all the ones that I have seen, they have been nothing more than 1, 2, or maybe 3 verses and then just multiple pages of the opinion of the author. And I have come to realize that humans are flawed and biased most of the time.

I think another thing that has been detrimental to people's growth are translations. I have found many to have lots of errors and translated in such a way to have a bias. That is why I am learning Hebrew. Though that has slowed significantly now that the Rabbi who was teaching the class asked me not to come back due to my belief in plural marriage and association with Biblical Families.
 
Roger that, Marine, on all points.

One of the things that significantly changed my approach, (actually, I should say that is STARTING to significantly change my approach,) due to my "unlearning" process, was a delicious insight into the actual meanings of both words for meditation used in the OT contrasted with the word "study" in the NT. I used to be one who immediately went to the commentaries whenever I had a question, thus leaning upon my intellectual understanding of their intellectual understanding. Not exactly relationship building with my Maker, as I am painfully having to face.

Meditating, (and yes, thank God for Strong's) ;) means anything but a potential head trip. It includes but is not confined to: imagine, roar, mutter, murmer in pleasure or anger, contemplate, speak (with self as well as God,) complain, shoot forth (like a tender shoot popping up in the spring.)

Obviously all this lends itself to roll over into music, as modeled by David. (Me thinks this can be part of the meaning of being given the key of David as well as an open door that no man can shut.) "Study" does come in at the bottom of the list, but true meditating is way more physical and intuitive than cerebral.

"Study" as in "study to show thyself approved" also does not support the idea of going to the stacks and getting surrounded by stacks, which is what I certainly used to do, especially when working on papers. Its root is the same one from which we get "speed," and creates much more of a picture of a passionate, eager diligent creation of movement, with our use of "study" as we know it being at the bottom of the list. It is included, but typically we ignore the the illustration, and miss that this is about "speeding toward HIM."

As one guy , ( whom I greatly respect as a bible scholar) said with a chuckle after he took his sixteen years of seminarial approach and laid it aside because his life in no way matched his head, " I haven't "studied" the bible for 20 years, but I am consumed with meditating upon it." For me, his insights have been truly life changing.

I don't claim to have the balance in all of this. All I know is that my relationship with Yeshua has changed for the better as a result. I will love to hear how yours changes, too.

Shalom,
Ali
 
and here i thought that my intimacy with the Father was individual and private,

but then what does a truck driver know, i am not even bright enough to understand that whole trinity thing yet :D
 
Butterfly,

I think you are correct that we agree more than we disagree, and I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your post. I feel that some important points were not mentioned, (perhaps because you agreed and didn't feel they needed further comment.) Let me try to illustrate my point in a different manner by requesting that you use your imagination, ( a scriptural part of meditating, I might add. ;)

Pretend for a moment that you are the librarian at a seminary, and you have been "sshhh-ing" students for decades. Previously your sense of the way knowledge is acquired requires absolute silence, so as to not disturb anyone. This is not unreasonable, mind you, but then some on fire sem students actually decide to do what the word tells them to, and rather than quench the Spirit, ( a no no, according to my fave apostle Paul,) you cheerily send them outside so they can continue to do what the bible says to do when it says to meditate.

You would have just given them room to have been taught by the Spirit of God without man. To balance that, as you mentioned, teaching is an ascension gift, and is needed throughout the Body of Christ, and there are numbers of books by various authors that to this day I still find helpful.Same with various bible teachers. I hear their name, and I know it will more than likely be both solid as well as edifying. It will also be ALIVE, and that doesn't necessarily mean emotional, although it can. The reason why their works are head and shoulders above the sometimes insufferably dry stuff that shows up in many commentaries is because the whole man is edified, not just the noggin.

The individual responsibility to hear and act on what God says is staggering. Abraham did not confer with an elder board or check in his King James before he went out from Ur, let alone start to sacrifice Isaac :lol: ) Meditating on God's terms (and not that which is insisted upon by Graeco-roman thought) does not negate the need for teachers.It also doesn't mean we are the Lone Ranger and don't need the Body. We are to move in all realms as Father leads. We are to hear from God, and we are to be willing to be taught. We are also called to disciple, which includes teaching others. It is a delicious tension, one of many we find in our life with God if we are listening and following.
 
alit53 said:
I haven't "studied" the bible for 20 years, but I am consumed with meditating upon it.
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That quote is so awesome! I love it!

My relationship with Yahushua has definitely changed and improved tremendously! I now know the true name of our Heavenly Father which is יהוה and that the true name of our Messiah is יהושע. I know that their names aren't God, Jehovah, or Jesus. This has given me a much closer relationship with Yahuweh and Yahushua. They call me by name and out of respect and love for them, I call them by name.

Another change: I love to listen to Christian radio. Especially the sermons that come on like preachings from Turning Point, Focus On The Family, Living On The Edge, Walk Through The Word, etc just to help keep up with what the "mainstream" is preaching nowadays. (cause it usually evolves) And when they preach incorrections, automatically a light goes off in my head saying "Hey, they're wrong about that" and the scriptures actually pop up in my head. What worries me is what I don't know and catch yet. But I'll be there one day.
 
The agreement points you stated are somewhat correct, but number one only scratches the surface. What I mean by that is not only that the Scriptures over-rule the pope (supreme pontiff), but also what the RCC changed like Sabbath to sunday, the calendar, the times of the days, the Holy Days or Holidays and what the RCC brought in from outside like obelisks on churches, christmas, easter, etc. It has a lot more to do with than just the pope.

It's not that I/we are saying that it isn't good or profitable to learn from others. It is sometimes. Just that you really have to be cautious in who you learn FROM. But all in all the final decision and the final wisdom need to come from Yahuweh. Just like in patriarchy/marriage the final decision comes from the husband, when learning something you can gather information from multiple sources, but the final wisdom and what you retain and believe in needs to come from Yahuweh to you. So often today we find so many people that are writing books and producing CD's and the like just to stuff their own coffers. They don't really care about or want to teach and grow others. That's why when learning from others I love a more fluid and/or face to face atmosphere such as our retreats or forums like this where you can get to know the person's heart a lot better, get to understand WHY they are saying what they are saying, get their background and where they are coming from, and you don't even have to give them your credit card number.

The final authority in your life should be the Scriptures and not some commentary, devotional, or sermon that someone spouts off. Yeah, they may have some truth and wisdom in there, but more so does the Scriptures. Using commentaries, devotionals, and/or sermons to develop your doctrine/beliefs is ignorant. Why use some "human's" opinion when we have the Word of Yahuweh to use? Why quote what some finite being wrote when you can quote the Word of Yahuweh? Nothing wrong from learning from others, but the final learning and final information needs to come from the Scriptures.

It is through the wisdom of Yahuweh that I have learned that it doesn't really matter if the person is educated or uneducated or whether they have a certain title or not. I have seen and pointed out incorrections from "Dr" James Dobson, "Pastor" Chip Ingram, "Pope" (well pick any pope you like), "Rabbi" (name withheld), etc. You wouldn't believe the number of college educated idiots that work at the Wal-Mart I deliver to. College degrees mean absolutely squat. (Good for fire starter though) Bill Gates is a college drop out and Peter Jennings was a high school drop out. Plus, I have personally met and know millionaires that never went to college and a guy that I work with now, has never went to college and has 3 Emmy awards and has been all over the world multiple times. That's why it's great to get to know and talk to people on a more personal level. Then you can really tell what they know, why they know it, and where they know it from. Definitely can't get that level of intimacy from a "devotional" or "commentary".

Just my personal experience and opinion though.
 
Todd,

Love you man.

As a college-educated fool, I applaud your dedication to the Scriptures and searching deep in the Word. As has been reflected in my testimony, a lot of my growth in the Lord has come from "unlearning" the things I have learned. There is nothing as personal and revelatory as studying the Word of God and having your heart leap at a concept on idea that you have never seen before.

However, I do not diminish the value of a solid education. You get out of it what you put in it. I am thankful to God for allowing me the opportunity to be exposed to great Bible teachers and preachers that spoke truth into my life. I am also thankful to the HUNDREDS of books that I was introduced to that allowed me to learn from teachers who have already passed from this life. I am thankful to God that I was exposed to ideas and concepts that it might have taken me decades to come across or learn on my own.

I am thankful to God for the two years of Greek, and the year of Hebrew I took in college.

I am thankful to God for three years of hermenuetics, the three years of homiletics, the three years of bibliology, the two years of soteriology, the two years of christology, the semester of angeology, the semester of eschatology, and the year of pneumatology.

Impressed yet? :D

When I was 16, I was preaching. I was ready to take on the world. If preaching was whale-hunting, then I had a jar of tartar sauce ready to go! But there was an 80 plus year old preacher whom I greatly admired, and I told him one day that I wanted to go out and start preaching....all I needed was my Thompson Chain Reference Bible and a handkerchief to wipe the sweat. After all, he never went to college....everything he learned he got from being on his knees and being in the Word.

But you know what he said to me?

He said, "Son, if I had to do it over again, I would have gone to school. Instead of learning from the school of hard knocks, whose school colors are black and blue, you can learn from the experience and hard work of others. Go to Bible college....get an education...get prepared...and do the job right the first time. Don't be like me where it has taken sixty years to learn how to really understand the Word."

That is the only reason I even went to Bible college, but boy, am I glad I did. I would have gone off into so much error and preached so much crap that it would be amazing if God saved even one soul from that preaching.

I don't mean to diminish your argument, because you know how much I greatly respect you. However, when you mention those college dropouts that are CEOS, yes it is true, that does happen....but for every college dropout I can line up a 1000 who AREN'T who are successful business leaders, entrepreneurs, teachers, and yes, even theologians. And believe me, I understand what you are saying about Wal-Mart, too. There are a lot of college educated folks working there, HOWEVER, I ask that you do not judge them too quickly. Who knows if they have been laid off from another job, have been down-sized, or their work eliminated? Now as to the college fools, well to them I say, get to work! After all, I am a college fool, and at this time last year was holding down a full-time job, and two part-time...hey, that sounds like someone I know who DIDN'T go to college! LOL

Anyway, I am just saying this to let you know I do not take any offense to the education remarks. I understand where you are coming form on it, and agree with you on a lot of it. Pray for us with degrees that we may outgrow them and seek the Lord while there is still time.

Blessings,

Doc
 
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