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Fred Phelps, Westboro Baptist Church, and The Hate of God

Doc

Doc

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Read Doc's blog: http://docburkhart.blogspot.com/2011/01 ... h-and.html

I pastored a church and managed a Christian radio station in Topeka, Kansas, the home of Pastor Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church. The news this week about the Tuscon shootings and the intention of the members of WBC appearing at one or more of the funerals prompts the qustion: what DOES God hate?

It seems a contradiction that a God who is love can also hate. We are created with the capacity to both love and hate; it is part of our being created in the image of God. The fact that we are all tainted with sin does not negate the fact that the ability to love and hate is part of the image of God that was created within us all. Therefore, if it is no contradiction for a human being to be able to love and hate, then much more so would it not be a contradiction for God to be able to love and hate.

When the Bible does speak of God hating, the object of God’s hatred is usually sin and wickedness. Among the things God hates are idolatry (Deuteronomy 12:31; 16:22) and those who do evil (Psalm 5:4-6; 11:5). Proverbs 6:16-19 outlines seven things the Lord hates: pride, lying, murder, evil plots, those who love evil, false witness, and troublemakers. Notice that this passage does not include just things that God hates; it includes people as well.

The question that begs to be answered at this point is why does God hate these things? God hates them because they are contrary to His nature—God’s nature being holy, pure and righteous. In fact, David writes, “For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you” (Psalm 5:4 emphasis added). God is holy and hates sin. If He did not hate sin, He would not be holy. God is love, but He is also wrath, justice, and vengeance. But His wrath is a holy wrath and His justice and vengeance are holy as well. God’s love is holy. Therefore, He cannot "love everyone all the time no matter what they do," as some like to claim. Nothing could be further from the truth. God loves righteousness and holiness and hates sin and evil. If He did not, He would not be God.

So if God hates sin and loves holiness, how does He love us? Simple. He loves us because we have the righteousness of Christ who became sin for us on the cross (2 Corinthians 5:21). He poured out His wrath and vengeance against sin on His Son, so that He could pour out His mercy and love on us. But without that sacrifice credited to us, His wrath and hatred remain on us because He hates our sin. The Bible never says He "hates the sin, but loves the sinner." In fact, He is “angry with the wicked every day” (Psalm 7:11). Is there a sense in which God loves everyone? Yes. Does that love preclude God from also hating sin, wickedness, and evil? No.

Read Doc's blog: http://docburkhart.blogspot.com/2011/01 ... h-and.html
 
Re: Fred Phelps, Westboro Baptist Church, and The Hate of Go

DocInMO said:
....He cannot "love everyone all the time no matter what they do,".....

....The Bible never says He "hates the sin, but loves the sinner."....
Click to expand...

Finally! Someone who agrees with me on this issue. We're all the time hearing that Yahuweh is "all loving". Ehh, false. He is "loving", but not "all loving". Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated.
 
Re: Fred Phelps, Westboro Baptist Church, and The Hate of Go

ya mean that the socialistic aspect of His love, that He loves everybody the same, is not true?


but, but, but everyone at whose feet i have sat have always agreed on that, so it MUST be true!
oh, dear
 
Re: Fred Phelps, Westboro Baptist Church, and The Hate of Go

It might help to define our terms:

Love has two elements to it: Grace/mercy and justice or discipline/wrath. A parent who disciplines his child (a form of justice) is pouring forth a type of love. Our heavenly parent, God the Father, does the same as well.

Both are forms of love. So in one sense God can and does love everyone. He loves some through grace and loves some through discipline. The Jacob abd Esau text is also properly translated that God elected or chose Jacob and he did not choose or elect Esau. This is a central text used by the Calvinists to support their doctrine of eternal election where some are chosen and where others are not chosen.

Those in heaven are those loved by eternal grace. Those in hell are those who experience the love of God in eternal discipline or wrath. Even if one is not a hard line Calvinist though they can still arrive at the same conclusion that some receive one form of love and others receive another form of love by their free-will choice.

It certainly is true that we fail sometimes to see justice as a form of God's love, or we fail to see that justice is a part of the work of God (even if one defines it in some other way than love). As grace children we are prone to that disposition because we wear every day the grace lens in which we read life because it is in our very nature since we are saved by grace. Of course, that is if we are truly grace children.

The problem with those Westbro Baptist people might just be that they are not truly grace children so they function with a focus on law, justice, and wrath to the neglect of mercy and grace.

Dr. Allen
 
Re: Fred Phelps, Westboro Baptist Church, and The Hate of Go

Personally I think anyone who does not hate baby murder encourages baby murder and is a greater man of hate than the man who hates baby murderers.

By the way C.S. lewis gave a really simple explanation if you read the silver chair

there was a school where no one punished the children when they were bad so the children started becoming bullies.

Then at the end of the book the bad children got punished and the school became a better place.

If those who would like to be murderers and everyone else lived forever on the same earth and God punished no one we would be eternally punished by murderers and everyone would be in a state of eternal torture. It is very straightforward.

Love for the oppressed involves punishing the oppressors who are unwilling to stop oppressing. Those who are saved gravitate towards becoming ex-oppressors so if all the saved people are together separate from the unsaved in the after-life they will be spared the suffering and hence ex-oppressors can be loved.
 
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