• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Found out I'm Jewish!?

John_John916

New Member
Greetings everyone! I don't normally post on the forms. Even though I have commented before. Today I found my parental grandparents are of Jewish heritage. Even though they converted to Christianity. I believe my great grandparents or great, great grandparents left Judaism for Christianity. Since I'm seeing a lot of members became Catholic or Protestant. My Grandfather was a Sephardi Jew and my Grandmother was a Ashkenazi Jew. I personally will have pride in my new found heritage. Even though I have read online my mother has to be Jewish in order for me to call myself one. Yet I don't see any of my friends who's parent are not of the same heritage or religious belief calming that. What do you think? Should I study Judaism and my ancestry more or just close this chapter?
 
Mazel Tov (congrats)

What is kinda cool is that you could move to Israel, now any of your grandparents need to be jewish. To be considered Jewish by the Orthodox it has to go through your mom to mom to mom, also does not matter how many generations it goes back. Many were forced to covert to Catholic not to Protestant.

Should you study? Maybe. Knowing about Judaism will shed great light on Christianity and the teachings of King Messiah. The two best books are: To Be A Jew and How to Run a Traditional Jewish Household.

The other place to go and I have to admit the milage highly varies on this: Go to Messianic Jewish service. As milage varies: I went to one in the Twin Cities (there are four there) on Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) and was embarrassed by the service, I was ashamed of being a Jew and a believer. I walked out weeping. I found another and went there for two years. For the record I am a former Messianic Rabbi (and a pastor of a baptist church though not at the same time).

If you have any more questions please feel free to ask.
 
Thank you! I have been studying about Judaism since I found out about it. A lot of stuff I never knew in life. Being me, myself and I and dealing with school I don't have time studying religion. Not to be rude! Some Jews and Jewish groups hate both Christianity and Islam. They do present good arguments. I just see faith as faith. Non the less it is fun to learn and see what people believe in life.
 
Well I'm not Jewish, but I'm a Jew

My intention is not to insult anyone but even though I don't have Jewish roots I consider myself a Jew:

Romans 2:28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Romans 11:17-36 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins." As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! "For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?" "Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?" For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.
 
Well......

Most people who label themselves as Jews and go to Synagogues do not real believe the old testament.

You should read the whole Bible. Including the old testament which Jews are supposed to believe. And also the new testament which true Jews believe.

I also suggest you study Messianic Judaism.

There are several famous Messianic Jews like Zola Levitt and Michael Brown who you should be able to find online material from, I found a free video archive from Zola Levitt ministry by which you can watch some episodes of his T.V. show for free when I was researching Hanukkah, unfortunately I do not remember the website address right now.

By the way sometimes Messianic Jews make massive doctrinal mistakes when they copy lies from Jews who did not really believe the old testament and choose to follow doctrines from man but not from God. But Messianic Jews also teach a lot of good doctrine to. I suppose that is the problem with every denomination I have seen, protestant, Catholic, or "orthodox," baptist, Lutheran, or Presbyterian., etc, the people who try to copy the original denominations all seem to make mistakes in doctrine.
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
Well......

Most people who label themselves as Jews and go to Synagogues do not real believe the old testament.

Uhmmmmmm . . . you must of gone to a differing (or a reform) shuls then I have several I have gone to.

The problem is the differing lens of viewing Torah.
 
"The problem is the differing lens of viewing Torah."

Seems to be the same problem in the Mormon church, Islam, Christianity, etc... seems that people in general are pretty good at reading things the way they want to see them...
 
Hi John,

I am of Jewish heritage and I have been saved for 27 years. My upbringing and education provided me with much of the foundation to be able to understand Yahshua (Jesus) from a Hebraic point of view.

So, I encourage you to seek out your Hebraic roots, not so much via traditional Judaism, but by seeing the Bible as a single unit. If you do a search on Hebraic roots of Christianity you will learn a lot.
 
The Biblical Definition of Who is a Jew

So far this thread is slightly off of the biblical basis for what defines one to be a Jew. But there is a lot of discussion over this in Israel today so it makes sense why this subject is still being debated by many today.

The golden rule of biblical intepretation is that we allow each word of Scripture to be defined by its own context.

If you do a simple wordy study of the word Israel you can see that it was used 73 times in the NT. EVERY single one of those times the term applies to ethnic Israel.

Now, as far as what makes one a Jew. This is passed down through the FATHER, not the mother. This is where Orthodox Judaism departs from Orthodoxy of the Bible.

Dr. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, who is a Hebrew Christian theologian (BA; Th.M; Ph.D), grew up in Orthodox Judaism. In his excellent work titled, "Hebrew Christianity: Its Theoloogy, History, and Philosophy" he says this:

We come then to the issue of who is a Jew. There are few topics in the Jewish world which have been more debated than this one. To this day there is no consistent definition.[/quote]

He offers the five definitions people believe as to what defines a Jew.
1. Religious Definition:
Only those who believe and live in Judaism. The problem with this def. is that one can be ethnically born Jewish and be an atheist and then not be considered a Jew. As one Rabbi told Arnold, he was not a Jew anymore because he was a Christian even though he thought an atheist Jew was still a Jew. Arnold pointed out how inconsistent this was.

2. The Benjamin Shalit Case in the Israeli Supreme Court
A case that came up twenty or so years after the state of Israel was born. A Navy commander (a Jew) with a Gentile wife, who were both atheists. filed to have his children registered as Jews the Minister of the Interior rejected this request. It went to the court. Nine of the ten justices presided over the case. The full ten did not to avoid a tie vote. Shalit argued a twofold theory: (1) That Jewishness was based upon nationality, i.e. if one is born in the country that person is then a Jew, and (2) Jewishness was not a biological question but one of historical, sentimental and intellectual identification. At that time the Court ruled in his favor.

3. A Nationalistic Definition
David Ben Gurion (who Arnold calls the George Washington of Israel) defined at a speech at the Hebrew University in Israel as one who comes to Israel, settles in Israel, and raises his children in Israel. Jewishness then is defined as Israeli nationalism. Those living outside of Israel, even biological Jews born of a Jewish father, were not really true Jews.

4. Public Opinion Poll
As a consequence of all of the confusion, and the Shalit court case, a pool was conducted to let the people decide what made one a Jew. The results were:
-12% delcared that a Jews is a person whose father or mother is Jewish or who has a Jewish spouse
-23% said whoever simply claims to be a Jew is a Jew
19% said one who has a Jewish mother and converts to Judaism.
13% said one who lives in Israel and identifies with a Jewish state.
-13% A Jew is one who observes the Jewish religious practices
-11% answered a Jew is one who is raised and educated as a Jew.
-9% said it could not be defined.

Before speaking of the 5th definition it is important to note that every one of these def. is subjective and based upon tradition, human reasoning, and without divine revelation being the authoritative standard.

5. The Hebrew Christian Defintion
Builds upon an objective standard; it goes back to the very source of Jewishness, the Scriptures. As Dr. Fruchtenbaum says, "the further any definition departs from the Scriptures, the foggier it gets. The Hebrew Christian is forced to define Jewishness in the biblical sense of the term, for to him the Scriptures are the source of authority. Hence the Hebrew Christian definition can also be called the biblical definition. The biblical basis for defining for defining Jewishness lies in the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis."

He goes on to show that in Gen. 12:1-3, Gen. 15:4-5, Gen. 26:-2-5, 24, and Gen. 28:13-15 we can clearly see how God defined the Jewish ethnicity. He shows that it "lies in the repeated statement that a nation will come through the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and thus defines Jewishness in terms of nationality. But unlike trhe view of many Israelis, this nationality is not confined to the state of Israel alone, but it includes all the Jewish people no matter where they are. It is a nationality based upon descent and not on Zionism. Biblically speaking, the Jewish people are a nation. Today we are a scattered nation, but we are, nevertheless, a nation. We are a nation because we are descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The implication of this definition is that no matter what the individual Jew may believe or disbelieve he remains a Jew . . . . Nothing, absolutely nothing, can change the fact that he is a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."

But of course people logically ask: what if the mother is a Gentile? Or what if the mother is a Jew and the Father is a Gentile? What about in those cases?

Arnold goes ont o correctly explain: "The theology of Judaism teaches Jewishness is determined by the mother; if the mother is Jewish, then the children are Jewish. But again, this is a departure from the biblical norm and is therefore rejected by Hebrew Christianity. In the Scriptures it is not the mother who determines Jewishness but the father. consequently the genealogies of both the Old and New Testaments list the names of men and not of the women, except in the cases where a mother was notable in Jewish history. Thus if the father is Jewish, the children are Jewish. King David was definitely Jewish, although his great grandmother Ruth and his great-great grandmother Rahab were both Gentiles."

Therefore, the key is simple to how we define a Jew. We must first determine what will be our authority base. Will we first let Scripture define our terms. Second, once we do this we see that a Jew is one who is physically born of the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Thus it is passed down through the father and thus we can see there is a twofold definition: (1) A Jew is one who has a Jewish Father, and (2) it is by biological descent that defines who is or is not a Jew.

Dr. Allen

I urge you to go to Dr. Fruchtenbaum's website:

www.ariel.org for more info

Also, if you want another great resource on this I urge you to read "Israeology: The Missing Link to Systematic Theology." Arnold spent 14 or so years of research on this topic and earned his Ph.D from New York University on this subject. It is a massive volume (1,000 plus pages) that has not been answered or refuted by any reputable theologian or philosopher to date.

He is also producing a commentary set on the whole Bible from a Jewish frame of reference. Over the years he has become one of the strongest leaders among the Hebrew Christian Movement (Messianic movement) and his discipleship training center has trained thousands of people for ministry in the fields of Jewish evangelism and discipleship as well as in Rabbi roles within Messianic Churches.
 
Scarecrow said:
"The problem is the differing lens of viewing Torah."

Seems to be the same problem in the Mormon church, Islam, Christianity, etc... seems that people in general are pretty good at reading things the way they want to see them...

Except the difference Mormon and Islam have not only a different lens, they are not even looking at the same thing.

I mean on how one understands Torah. The Christian view is to understand it via allegory, analogy, and cute stories.
Jews on the other hand, view Torah through the lens of Talmud.
Both views imho are flawed.
 
macike said:
Scarecrow said:
"The problem is the differing lens of viewing Torah."

Seems to be the same problem in the Mormon church, Islam, Christianity, etc... seems that people in general are pretty good at reading things the way they want to see them...

Except the difference Mormon and Islam have not only a different lens, they are not even looking at the same thing.

I mean on how one understands Torah. The Christian view is to understand it via allegory, analogy, and cute stories.
Jews on the other hand, view Torah through the lens of Talmud.
Both views imho are flawed.

So you agree with me that most Jews are wrong.

And you agree with me that most Christians are wrong.

13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Mathew 7:13-14 NIV

So people should read the whole Bible by themselves instead of believing everything a rabbi or pastor says.
 
So people should read the whole Bible by themselves instead of believing everything a rabbi or pastor says.

Of course not DTT. maybe you were being saRcastic or jovial there to make a point, not sure.

In any case, we are to read the Bible with the help of those who are gifted teachers. Ephesians 4:11-12 shows us this. Furthermore, James 3 speaks of not all being teachers.

We are to read the bible as much as we can ourselves but we should never neglect the giftnedness of those Christ has given to his churches to help us understand. To try and ignore everything the teachers have said so we can try and figure everything out on our own would be a sinful mistake of pride.

Furtheremore for most it would be absolutely hypocritcal. Very few people, even those of us who have studied Hebrew and Greek in seminary sit down and read the Bible primarily through the Hebrew and Greek with high levels of fluency. Some do but even most of us who know the original languages do not do this due to the time it takes to dissect every sentence and parse every verb etc. So even those who claim: "we do not need anyone to teach us" show their own hypocrisy because they indeed need and use the work of the language scholars to help understand their Bibles in their native tongue.
 
So people should read the whole Bible by themselves instead of believing everything a rabbi or pastor says

Saying not everything is not the same as not anything!

Not believing everything some one says is not the same as believing nothing someone says, and therefor does not negate the usefulness of teachers, nor imply that teachers should be avoided.

I simply mean you should not believe 100% of what a teacher says (unless you are 100% certain that teacher is God and you understand what he said 100% correctly, etc.), even if 99% of what the teacher says is correct and 1% is incorrect you still should not believe 100% in such a way as to believe something that is incorrect.

This seems like a trivially obvious statement yet.......

Most Jews I know either completely negate obedience to the Torah, or make up lots and lots of rules that are not in the Torah but they claim are in the Torah because a Rabbi said so and so. If these Jews actually read the Torah, it would be obvious that the Torah does not line up with what their Rabbi said.

These Jews therefor start calling things that are not sin, sin when someone breaks one of the Rabbi's rules.

Thereby they have the prerogative to declare that which God has not declared as evil to be evil.

5 "Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

6 Do not add to his words,
or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

Proverbs 30:5-6 NIV

I have met "Liberal" Jews who subtract from God's word, and "Orthodox" Jews who add to God's word and subtract from God's word. But I have never met a Jew (who has rejected the new testament) who is happy with letting God's word in the old testament be God's word in the old testament.

Perhaps there are some but I have not met them. I could say similar things about some Christians, but I feel the problem is much less severe, perhaps because they are less OT rule oriented, by fact that..... with good reason.
 
Back
Top