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Fasting

CecilW

CecilW

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I'm sure we've all read aboput fasting at one time or another. If anyone has questions about it, feel free to ask them in this thread. I know some of our members engage in the practice, some on a weekly basis, others less frequently but for longer periods.

Also, I located this thread here to discuss primarily the SPIRITUAL aspects of the practice. If anyone is primarily interested in the health benefits (or perceived dangers), lets open a second thread under Health.

For the moment, I had one thought / question to toss out for comment. I'm not looking for direction to a website article on fasting in general. Just had this one question ...

David (Ps 35:13) said, "I humbled myself with fasting." So we commonly read folks talking of the self-humbling effects of fasting for spiritual purposes. We could say that fasting is associated, scripturally, with humbling of oneself.

Today I got to thinking about Isaiah 40:31, "But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength" and got to wondering, How do you wait upon the Lord?

Daniel fasted and prayed for some time, seeking an answer from God. Is it possible that the Bible also associates fasting strongly with the term "waiting upon the Lord"? Or vice versa? If anyone thinks of any other passages that strengthen the association and idea that "waiting upon the Lord" involves fasting, or that fasting may be at the heart of doing so, I'd very much like to hear about them.
 
I'm in a period of morning right now, so I am observing a partial fast. We are in the last part of the Three Weeks and it is customary for His people to abstain from eating meat and other activities that bring pleasure as we remember the destruction of the Temples and other terrible things that have happened throughout history during this period.

The Three Weeks

Fasting is something that His people have taken seriously for millennia. And, I believe that it is important for all His people. Sadly, the church has lost sight of some of these truths. I was pretty happy when I discovered them, for I want to understand the Torah like my Master does!

In the Prophets, it speaks of a time in the future when Hashem will bring joy to the prescribed fast days. So, the only way we can actually make that prophesy make sense is if we observe the fasts. While Hashem doesn't actually command the fasts in Scripture it is apparent that His people should observe them. Read the following and let me know what you think.
Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'The fast of the fourth, the fast of the fifth, the fast of the seventh and the fast of the tenth {months} will become joy, gladness, and cheerful feasts for the house of Judah; so love truth and peace.' (Zechariah 8:19, NASB)
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Instead of explaining in detail what those fasts are right now I'd like my brothers and sister to think about what Hashem said to us through His prophet Zachariah. When I first heard of this I was kind of amazed.

EDIT: Please, if you want to respond to this I have made a different thread so as to not upset what it is that Cecil really wants to discuss. Go to the following link. Shalom :D

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=692
 
I'd also like to add that this is a fascinating topic and I'm looking forward to peeling back the layers of teaching there is in Scripture on fasting. I think that you really nailed one of the most important aspects of fasting - seeking Hashem.
 
Ooooookay. Ummmm. Thanks?

I'm not too interested in ritualistic fasts and mourning for events long past. If it floats your boat, then more power to you. I guess that's part of the diversity we enjoy among us. I understand this 3 weeks thing is a Jewish tradition, and you like those, Bryce, there's nothing wrong with that. It / they just aren't what I'm trying to get at.

My interest and intent, when starting this thread was to ask about practical spiritual aspects of the practice, in particular in search of an answer to my question: Is there, scripturally, a very close association between fasting and the term "wait on the Lord"? Or Yahweh or Hashem for those to whom the name thing is important?

Is fasting, perhaps, a necessary component of "waiting on the Lord", such that if you aren't fasting then whatever you are doing may be fine but it isn't truly "waiting on the Lord"?

I'd really like to lay claim upon that Isaiah 40 passage / promise, in full confidence of having fulfilled, or being in a state of fulfilling, the condition. Not much sense in doing so otherwise!
 
brYce said:
I'd also like to add that this is a fascinating topic.
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Yup. I've been interested in it for years, ever since it was pointed out to me that Jesus didn't say, "If you fast ..." but "When you fast ..." implying that it was an expected practice / discipline, right up there with prayer.
 
Yup. I've been interested in it for years, ever since it was pointed out to me that Jesus didn't say, "If you fast ..." but "When you fast ..." implying that it was an expected practice / discipline, right up there with prayer.
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Interesting point, Cecil.

I have found the process to be valuable, and am likewise interested, but will for now prefer to read rather than add too much more at this point. But I WILL say, however, that the verse(s) which primarily piqued my own interest was Yeshua's comment to His disciples who were NOT able to cast out a particular demon, "...this kind only comes out by prayer and fasting."

(After which, I note that some versions of the Bible 'coincidentally' leave out some or all of that verse!)
 
I will add my 2 cents worth here...

Cecil,

I cannot directly answer the question that you ask with a literal interpretation of a scripture, but agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying. I think you are ‘seeing’ it as you should. I believe that fasting from food is very helpful, especially when it is God directed. It allows one to focus not on the flesh, but helps them ‘crucify’ the flesh and look into the Spirit, if done for the right reasons. Though I do not anymore fast voluntarily as a self-directed act, I do try to live a 'fasted lifestyle'. God tells me when to fast from food, (and I usually do without drink as well when I do fast in the natural). He has not told me to do so for several years though, since He gave me the revelation on Isaiah chapter 58. I have had some heated discussions about the topic with some powerful men of God, so what I am going to say is no doubt going to bring some flack here, but here goes...

Fasting from natural food/drink is not really what God wants from us. If one has Godly understanding and reads Isaiah chapter 58, then I believe that they will see this. Otherwise, when fasting, how could one ‘share their bread with the hungry’, (interpreting this literally, though I believe that He is referring to the spiritual bread of Christ as well - verse 7). God wants us to simply put Him and His ways first in our lives and give up ‘our thing’ in preference for ‘His thing’, (which is always better anyway :)). This is the deeper message of Isaiah chapter 58. When one ‘enters into the rest of God’, then they will be ‘fasting’, (doing God’s thing in preference to their thing) and praying consistently as they live their lives, (i.e., walking in the Spirit). This is what I refer to as a ‘prayed up and fasted lifestyle’. In this state, no demon will be able to stand when these people speak in the name of Jesus. I believe that this is what Jesus was referring to in regards to the demon that the disciples could not cast out. Jesus did not have to go off and fast and pray before casting the stubborn devil out, He lived this type of lifestyle where He did nothing apart from the Father’s direction or example. If we do this and obey the type of ‘fasting’ as outlined in Isaiah chapter 58, then we will also have such power because God will know that He can trust us with it. It was not until the apostles had received the Holy Spirit in fullness that they walked in this place. We do not read anywhere that after the Holy Spirit fell on them on Pentecost that they had any problems with casting out devils. If we live in this place by abiding in Christ, then the devil will not make us afraid, it will be the other way around. My ‘fasting’ is no longer about food, but everything in my life. Once I received this, God has never asked me to do without food again. So in a sense I am always ‘waiting on God’. In this way I believe that the thing you are asking is what God really wants us to receive from Him regarding fasting. If one is abiding in Christ, only waiting for God to direct them, then they are truly ‘fasting’ according to Isaiah chapter 58. I hope this makes sense. Nice post.

Be blessed,

Ray
 
DrRay777 said:
Fasting from natural food/drink is not really what God wants from us. If one has Godly understanding and reads Isaiah chapter 58, then I believe that they will see this. Otherwise, when fasting, how could one ‘share their bread with the hungry’, (interpreting this literally, though I believe that He is referring to the spiritual bread of Christ as well - verse 7).... My ‘fasting’ is no longer about food, but everything in my life. Once I received this, God has never asked me to do without food again. So in a sense I am always ‘waiting on God’.
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I would think that it would be much easier to share your bread with the hungry when you're fasting. Since you're not eating it you'd have an abundance, right?

While there is a lot of merit to what you share about the spiritual applications of that text, I find it is unreasonable to suggest that actual fasting is what not what Hashem wants from us. I think you've taken your point too far. Shalom.
 
*grin* Whereas I see value in both points of view.

I, too, read Isaiah 58 often, and try to live a "fasted lifestyle". At the same time, I have no doubt that when David wrote about "humbling himself with fasting", he meant doing without food. Water? Debatable.

Ultimately, I guess if God tells you, to the best of your understanding, to engage in a physical fast from food, or even to include water, you oughta do it.

In my case, I do find it very humbling, for I believe that He told me 10 years ago that He would heal my family (relationships with first wife and kids), and perhaps my diabetes, after I complete a 35 day water only fast. Why 35 days, I don't know. Why not 40? *shrug*

What I do know is that I've undertaken to be obedient many times during the last 10 years, most recently this week. I do know about fasting, having fasted for 12 days once, and up to 8 days several times previously, and having done lots of research on the medical side. But I've just not been able to accomplish this seemingly simple task.

"Why not?" I ask myself. Is it that I don't care about or miss my first family? No. I do. Intensely. My current family is IN ADDITION to, never INSTEAD OF them.

Is it God pointing out to me, "Cecil, if you can't manage even this rather simple task, then how do you think you can manage the far more difficult tasks I have planned for you? Such as being all that a husband and father can and should be? Or leading them, AND eventually a body of believers as a pastor?"

I find it pretty durn humbling alright. *sigh*

I also find myself thinking that perhaps I need to "fast" from other things at the same time, such as any secular reading not directly related to work/job at hand. Movies, music, novels, news, etc. Which brought me round to the "waiting on the Lord" idea. ...
 
Very good post. Your reasons for fasting are very good ones. What would happen if we all fasted and prayed together? :D

CecilW said:
I have no doubt that when David wrote about "humbling himself with fasting", he meant doing without food. Water? Debatable.
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The norm is for a fast from food and water, as that has been the practice of His people for millennia. The vast majority of fasts are for only one day and it is pretty easy to fast for a day in a desert if you're keeping hydrated. The challenge comes in when you also deny yourself water.

Here is some good information on the fasting that the People of the Book do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting#Judaism
 
I have some experience with fasting and I believe that it is correct to interpret most of the passages with food as the intended restraint. I have seen the tendency to replace food and drink with busy work and activity in order to get through the day while fasting and this is not the point I think. If you are not spending your meal times with the Lord instead of just going online, or jogging, or doing more work, then the point of fasting is being missed.

The most impact that I have ever received was during a month long "noise" fast. Nothing except the Word and prayer. No internet, no christian radio, no preaching, no books or commentaries of any kind. Just the Word and prayer. One man described it as being so full of potato chips all the time that we can't eat the steak dinner and cheesecake that God has for us. It was interesting how I had become so dependent on noise. The radio was always on while driving. I had 30 sermons on CD. I would pick up the cell phone to call home if I had no other thing to do. I would read commentaries, study christian magazine articles. I did have certain days of also food and drink fasting. The thirty day noise fast was one of the greatest challenges in my life and it effected me greatly.
 
Paul not the apostle said:
The thirty day noise fast was one of the greatest challenges in my life and it effected me greatly.
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Thank you, Paul. That was a seriously helpful testimony!
 
The first time a "noise" fast was suggested to me, I thought it was dumb. After 4 days, I was amazed at just how much I had depended on noise to keep my brain unfocused. Try it for 3 or 4 days, nothing but the Word and prayer, and see how much you did not know your life is filled with noise.
 
This noise fast interests me greatly paul. Did you do this on vacation? Were you working? Were you around other people? How would you suggest going about it?

I would think solo would be best.

Now getting three days alone.... That's another story :)
 
The basic rule is only scripture and only prayer for your non work activities. No christian music, no christian reading, no television, ...you get the idea.

We did not do anything different than we normally did regarding work, or scheduling. I have to use the computer for work sometimes, which I still did, but no other type of internet usage. The hardest thing for DeeAnn during a food fast is feeding the kids and staying strong in her commitment. The hardest thing about the noise fast is remembering to not partake of all the different things that we normally do. If you choose to do the fast, then you will probably be amazed at how many things that you do everyday to kill time or mindlessly entertain yourself.

The last 30 day noise fast that I did was a few years ago, but I still remember it well. I have done some smaller ones, but overall I do not listen to the radio at all anymore, and we don't have a tv right now. Actually we just hooked one up for the kids, but DVD only, no programming. When the 30 days ended, I was a little saddened about it being over, so I did not go back to the way it was before. My wife started reading her Bible all the time, which lead to the "where did this men having more than one wife thing in the OT go wrong?" discussion and here we are on Biblical Families. It really did make an impact in my life.
 
By the way, fasting is not just about giving up the food. It is about time with the Lord.

You also have to eat your way into and out of fasts depending on the length of time, anything more than one day. If you do not eat all natural foods and raw foods, you will have a hard time with fasting. Your body will not welcome fasting. Start by cutting back portions and adding more water to your diet leading up to the fast, and drink water during or your body will dehydrate. Your body will also begin to naturally detox during fasting, so the extra water is absolutely needed or you will have cramping in your inners, and headaches from the toxins. When your fast is over, you have to slowly eat your way back to full portions or you will be miserable as you come out of the fast. Improper fasting is very dangerous to the body, so do it responsibly. Many people don't fast because it is too hard, with work, children, the health concerns and headaches. There is not system listed in scripture so everybody kind of just decides to do it, and lots of us just crashed and burned.


As a suggestion, if anyone is interested in successful fasting (successful meaning the eating portion, you are responsible for the prayer and worship and reason for the fast), then I would suggest a way to fast 50 days a year that is easier than 2 or 3 days in a lump. The best way to start fasting is to have a reasonto fast. And then fast on Wednesdays, but make sure that on Tuesdays and Thursdays you eat small portions and only raw foods like sunflower nuts and fruits and salads, whole grain bread, and drink lots of water. This will help to slow your metabolism and the fasting day will not be such a shock to your system. This will be easier to do than trying it on the weekends when you have more social eating habits, and you will also find that it is easier to do at work than you think. The habit of knowing what your schedule is going to be for food three days out of the week makes the process much easier. If you do this every week, then you will be doing it 50 times a year with a couple of skip outs. One more thing, if you do have something come up where you have to eat a meal on the wednesday, then you can still eat the small portions for the other meals and make the thursday your fast day and increase portions again on friday. Fasting is a lifestyle choice, not just something to do to be a cool christian. This wednesday fast is the best way to start that I have seen. It is easy, and it works. You can then feel good physically and emotionally when you do spend your eating times in prayer and worship.

sorry for the ramble
 
Hello

Jesus assumed that fasting should be a regular part of a believer's experience. Jesus encouraged believers to fast when he said "when you fast" as opposed to "if you fast". Biblical fasting is going without food, whether it be specific foods (like Daniel) or all foods. Biblical fasting has nothing to do with abstaining from T.V., Radio, etc... These may be acts of consecration, but not acts of fasting. When we fast, we should set the times we would naturally eat as times to "spiritually eat" through prayer and scriptural mediation, replacing one food for another, IMHO.

Blessings
 
Good post Pastor. I was going to say something like that about 45 minutes ago, but I didn't think that people would want to hear it. Since you've just said it I'll pipe in and add that I believe that fasting also included abstention from water. Shalom.

[EDIT: Sorry, I already said this earlier today... forgive the repetition]
 
Isaiah 58:6-7 -

6 “Is this not the fast that I have chosen:
To loose the bonds of wickedness,
To undo the heavy burdens,
To let the oppressed go free,
And that you break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry,
And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out;
When you see the naked, that you cover him,
And not hide yourself from your own flesh?
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.

John 4:31-34 -

31In the meantime His disciples urged Him, saying, “Rabbi, eat.” 32But He said to them, “I have food to eat of which you do not know.” 33Therefore the disciples said to one another, “Has anyone brought Him anything to eat?” 34Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work."
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.
 
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