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Falling From Grace

Doc

Member
Real Person
falling.jpg
Galatians 5:4 and its reference to falling from grace is one of those “warning passages” pointed to by those who reject the doctrine of the eternal security of the believer. But because of the biblical doctrine of the perseverance of the saints, we know the warnings cannot be directed at true believers in Christ because once grace has been obtained, believers cannot fall from it.

In Galatians 5:4, the context is Paul’s warning against mixing law and the Gospel to attain justification. He says to those who let themselves be circumcised (Galatians 5:2) that they are “trying to be justified by law” and have therefore “been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.” It should be noted that there is no mention of salvation or the security of the believer. He is telling those who receive circumcision—in other words attempt to justify themselves through the rites and rules of the Law—that Christ will be of “no benefit” to them.

Paul expounds further in verse 3 when he says that “every man who receives circumcision” is “under obligation to keep the whole Law.” Why is such a statement important in regards to Christ being “no benefit to you”? Note what Paul says in Galatians 3:13 concerning Christ’s sacrifice: “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us.” Taken in this light, along with a brief understanding of the Greek terms used, we can get a better understanding of what Paul is saying.

The two most important words in Galatians 5:4 are καταργέω (severed) and ἐκπίπτω (fallen). The word καταργέω does not require the “harsh” implications that come with “sever” in the English language, though it should not be taken lightly. In light of Paul’s words in Galatians 5:2 and how Paul uses the term in verses such as Romans 3:3, 4:14, and 1 Corinthians 1:28, a good way of understanding the term καταργέω is “nullify” or “done away with.” While the word ἐκπίπτω can undoubtedly mean to fall away from a previously held position, as those who deny the eternal security of true believers assert, in the context of this verse and how it is used in passages such as Acts 27, a good understanding of the phrase in Galatians 5:4 is that of “estranged” or “separated from.”

Paul warns against setting aside the grace that comes from Christ. Those who do have nullified, or run away from, the grace that comes through His blood and attempted instead to justify themselves by the works of the Law. The purpose of Paul’s letter to the Galatians was to warn against the Judaizers because they attempted to lure born-again Christians back to justification through the Law, which is impossible (Galatians 2:16). He reminds them of the freedom they have in Christ: “It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery” (Galatians 5:1).


..."I have a great need for Christ; I have a great Christ for my need!"
~ Doc Burkhart, Missionary to South Korea
 
"But because of the biblical doctrine of the perseverance of the saints, we know the warnings cannot be directed at true believers in Christ because once grace has been obtained, believers cannot fall from it."

John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

We will not come to Jesus unless the Father has drawn us, when we are drawn we WILL come to him, those who come to Him will never be cast out.

I am aware of a number of individuals that know of Jesus, yet do not know Jesus. Many of these people call themselves "Christians".
 
I have never really understood the belief that a Christian could lose their salvation. It seems illogical to me when people say that salvation is a free gift from God and there is nothing one can do to earn it.....but turn around and reject eternal security.

If salvation can't be earned, then it is illogical to say that it can be dis-earned....

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
:shock: Uh oh, I'll add a point here on this for food for thought.

Our good and faithful friend Dr. Martin Luther, a reformed theologian of course, held to radical depravity,unconditional election, efficacious grace, and yet he affirmed the possibility of someone falling away from the faith.

The distinction has not been very well defined over the years and the Synod of Dortian Calvinists and the more Wesleyan/Arminian advocates have fought over this issue for years.

Luther has over 50 volumes of works and I have not read everything by him to date though I'm trying.

It appears to me though after wrestling with this over the course of the last 12 years that even while I am usually classified by others as from the Reformed tradition, or least closer to them then not, I find that Luther's position and the exposition of the parable of the seed and sower is not so easily answered by the standard cookie cutter Calvinist answer that is often given.

Will one of the elect ever fall away? God forbid! Numerous texts make that clear and especially the full discourse of Romans 8. The entire chapter points to a different direction.

But, there is more to the story and one that I think Luther likely saw and yet so many others glossed over in subsequent church history. It appears that God's grace can actually move someone to a type of faith and yet they still, because they are non-elect, later fall away from that degree of faith. A literal and grammatical method of interpretation of the seed parable (Matt. 13) implies that someone can be non-elect and experience some type of temporal grace and yet later die out and lose some type of grace.

Theologians in various academic circles are now divided over what to call that type of grace one can receive and yet lose. Is it a regenerative type of grace and thus meaning someone can be born again and not elect and then fall away? Or is it a strong and powerful common grace that for awhile produces the fruit of the Spirit in a person and then it fades as they die out and fall away?

We certainly have one statement of Scripture that implies something of a general and common grace that pervades all in one sense: "that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe" (1 Tim. 4:10). Most Calvinist scholars rightly recognize this to be some form of common grace salvation. But then they are divided over the nature of that grace and to what extent it goes and from where it comes from. Some root it only in or from the universal common grace of God. Others however see it as rooted in all three members of the Godhead: the Father decrees it, the Son provided it through his cross, and the Holy Spirit applies it to all though in various degrees (some with eternal grace and some with common temporal grace). Others too among these camps define it still even differently. The common thread among most all branches of thought is that there is some type of grace that God can give and yet the person lose it and fall away. The more Calvinistic branches say it is common grace. The less Calvinistic will normally allow for it to be even a new birth or new life given in grace. Sometimes when comparing the practicals of the two the practical element is basically the same though they argue with great vigor over the best terms to use. But even so in practical terms both sides to a degree affirm that someone can receive some type of powerful grace and influence of God in their heart and life and yet in the future turn from it and fall away. Some will say they were never really true full blown believers. Others will say they were believers but lost what they had. The truth might be a bit of both. If we define grace in degree form then we might see that the parable of Christ teaches us many will receive grace but not all will be of the good soil type and of the ones who receive grace only the good soil people (elect?) will remain in the grace given to them.

But, as noted above, the Reformers who admit this, and who seem to be in line with Luther, will only agree to the idea that a non-elect person can have that happen as those who are sealed and who are the elect (the good soil) of the seed parable will never fall away but will indeed produce fruit and go on to maturity. But the seed that sprouts up and dies on the rock is a person with some type of grace but dies out. The seed that sprouts up and is then choked out by thorns and thistles is a person who is likely to have received some time of degree of grace that extends further but yet is still not eternal grace (Matt. 13:1-9; 18-23) .If this perspective holds full harmonization with all other texts it would alleviate a severe tension among the body of Christ that has existed for years and might even harmonize some of the early statements we have from some early church fathers who seemed to speak both ways on this subject.

It could also answer our issue of how to handle the warning texts of Hebrews 6 as well as 10. If this perspective is the right one it would mean that none of the elect who are born again will ever fall away. But there could then also be a group who receives some form of internal grace that for awhile produces a form of godliness but later they reject Christ or fall away from the grace of Christ for their own efforts. In that case the warning passages would make sense not just as a hypothetical warning but a as real warning that we need to make sure that even though we are in grace today that we remain in grace always. It would lend weight more to the need to check up on our calling and election as Peter warned us to do (2 Peter 1:10).

If the above position has merit then the only seed that lasts in that parable is the seed that is sown in the good soil, or what Luther and other Reformers call the elect soil as it has eternal roots in eternal election (Eph. 1:3-5). The other soil with the other types of seed is apparently some type of grace given (though debated as to why degree and what to term it; some say there are believers and then true believers, others say there are sealed believers and non-elect temporal believers, some say some receive common grace whereas others receive regenerative grace, etc. etc.).

But too in this there seems to be an alignment with what you have said about a return to the law. Those who seek to either be saved or sanctified by the law it is a sign that they have fallen from the sphere of eternal grace for a sphere of human effort religion and are thus in serious trouble. As Doc rightly said:

In Galatians 5:4, the context is Paul’s warning against mixing law and the Gospel to attain justification. He says to those who let themselves be circumcised (Galatians 5:2) that they are “trying to be justified by law” and have therefore “been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.” It should be noted that there is no mention of salvation or the security of the believer. He is telling those who receive circumcision—in other words attempt to justify themselves through the rites and rules of the Law—that Christ will be of “no benefit” to them.Paul expounds further in verse 3 when he says that “every man who receives circumcision” is “under obligation to keep the whole Law.” Why is such a statement important in regards to Christ being “no benefit to you”? Note what Paul says in Galatians 3:13 concerning Christ’s sacrifice: “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us.” Taken in this light, along with a brief understanding of the Greek terms used, we can get a better understanding of what Paul is saying.

Those who are of the wrong type of soil, or those who do not remain in the grace of God, will often run to any form of works of the law as they seek to justify themselves or sanctify themselves before the holy God. It was also one of the reasons why Luther was so emphatic about keeping law and grace in their proper sphere.
 
Doctors, Please allow a student response: I have learned in previous settings that the metaphor is not the message. Thus armed it seems that it would be improper to develop a philosophy or even a theology based on a simple teaching whose original audience was a group of farmers. This is not meant to demean an entire group as being unlearned but rather they knew a different discipline- farming. Scholars by trade exact every nuance from writings to develop a system of thought. I sometimes read a passage like Luke 8 and wonder if the farmers response to the parable was something like, "Duh Jesus, EVERYBODY knows that you don't sow in the rocks!" My sometimes gardening is often interrupted with long periods of thought about the seed and sower and weeds and watering and.... how my life represents a garden- you get the idea. Interject a new thought into this agrarian parable- Grace. I am not convinced that it belongs completely. It's like (here we go...) finding a puzzle piece that fits but it's not from the right puzzle cuz the picture and colors don't match. I believe verse 12 is key though: "...lest they should believe and be saved." The rest of the passage is somehow a contrast to that condition called "saved". To try and answer the question if a person can become unsaved once saved may be germane but not applicable.
Humbly,
Jack
 
Dr. K.R. Allen said:
Our good and faithful friend Dr. Martin Luther, a reformed theologian of course, held to radical depravity,unconditional election, efficacious grace, and yet he affirmed the possibility of someone falling away from the faith.

The distinction has not been very well defined over the years and the Synod of Dortian Calvinists and the more Wesleyan/Arminian advocates have fought over this issue for years.

Thank you, Dr. Allen but People can be wrong in their various interpretations. What does the Bible say?

Dr. K.R. Allen said:
But, there is more to the story and one that I think Luther likely saw and yet so many others glossed over in subsequent church history. It appears that God's grace can actually move someone to a type of faith and yet they still, because they are non-elect, later fall away from that degree of faith. A literal and grammatical method of interpretation of the seed parable (Matt. 13) implies that someone can be non-elect and experience some type of temporal grace and yet later die out and lose some type of grace.

Non-elect ?
Why would God create people that He knew He was not going to choose and therefore; they live their lives with no chance of salvation? This doesn't sound like the loving God I know.

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
"It appears that God's grace can actually move someone to a type of faith and yet they still, because they are non-elect, later fall away from that degree of faith."

I was puzzled for many years about this. How could someone possibly actually understand and believe in the saving grace of God, and then later reject it? It is not that they necessarily reject God's calling, but rather that they were never called by God. This still puzzled me until I heard a teaching by RC Sproul that made it very simple to understand.

To summarize RC Sproul stated that we are all sinners deserving of death. Then he made an analogy. Most people have heard about presidents of our country pardoning a number of people from prison at the end of their term as president. Do these individuals deserve this unmerited grace? No. Is the president obligated to pardon everyone? No. Is the president unjust because he chose to pardon some but not others? No.

So too God has chosen to pardon some of us by the blood of His Son Jesus. Is He obligated to save any of us? No. Is He unjust for saving some of us and not others? No.

"Why would God create people that He knew He was not going to choose and therefore; they live their lives with no chance of salvation? This doesn't sound like the loving God I know."

Isa 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Isa 45:9 "Woe to him who strives with him who formed him, a pot among earthen pots! Does the clay say to him who forms it, 'What are you making?' or 'Your work has no handles'?

Gal 1:15-16 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles...

Just because at times we may not understand God's plans and purposes does not mean that God is unjust in His works.
 
:shock: Uh oh
is right. :lol:
The distinction has not been very well defined over the years and the Synod of Dortian Calvinists and the more Wesleyan/Arminian advocates have fought over this issue for years.
This is an issue that was heavily argued back when I was in college and is still going on in many circles today. Since I have been nick-named, John "Can-o-Worms" Whitten, I think I will try to lay low on this one. We do manage to ferret out some of the more controversial topics for this forum. ;) I will leave this one alone with this parting thought, grace, election and security of the believer are not the topics of the original post (excellent job Doc), nor are they the topic of Galatians 5. In my sincere opinion, Doc hit the nail on the head and drove it flush in one sharp blow of the Pauline hammer.
 
Scarecrow said:
"It appears that God's grace can actually move someone to a type of faith and yet they still, because they are non-elect, later fall away from that degree of faith."

I was puzzled for many years about this. How could someone possibly actually understand and believe in the saving grace of God, and then later reject it? It is not that they necessarily reject God's calling, but rather that they were never called by God. This still puzzled me until I heard a teaching by RC Sproul that made it very simple to understand.

To summarize RC Sproul stated that we are all sinners deserving of death. Then he made an analogy. Most people have heard about presidents of our country pardoning a number of people from prison at the end of their term as president. Do these individuals deserve this unmerited grace? No. Is the president obligated to pardon everyone? No. Is the president unjust because he chose to pardon some but not others? No.

So too God has chosen to pardon some of us by the blood of His Son Jesus. Is He obligated to save any of us? No. Is He unjust for saving some of us and not others? No.

"Why would God create people that He knew He was not going to choose and therefore; they live their lives with no chance of salvation? This doesn't sound like the loving God I know."

Isa 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Isa 45:9 "Woe to him who strives with him who formed him, a pot among earthen pots! Does the clay say to him who forms it, 'What are you making?' or 'Your work has no handles'?

Gal 1:15-16 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles...

Just because at times we may not understand God's plans and purposes does not mean that God is unjust in His works.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

"Whosoever" is the archaic form for "whoever".

who·ev·er (h-vr)
pronoun
1. Whatever person or persons: Whoever comes will be welcomed.
2. Who: Whoever could have dreamed of such a thing?
3. any person who; anyone that whoever wants it can have it
4. no matter who I'll come round tomorrow, whoever may be here
5. an intensive form of who, used in questions whoever could have thought that?
6. Informal an unknown or unspecified person give those to John, or Cathy, or whoever

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

We cannot choose to be saved.

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

1. Whatever person or persons: Whoever comes will be welcomed.
(No, whoever is called WILL come)
3. any person who; anyone that whoever wants it can have it
(No. Nobody can come unless the Father draws him)
 
Scarecrow said:
John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

We cannot choose to be saved.

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

1. Whatever person or persons: Whoever comes will be welcomed.
(No, whoever is called WILL come)
3. any person who; anyone that whoever wants it can have it
(No. Nobody can come unless the Father draws him)

2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.
(this suggests that he, at some point, draws everyone...but only some accept Him.)

Okay...we could go on like this for the next few hundred years :lol: let's just agree to disagree? :)

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
I don't mind discussing this...it is how we learn...iron sharpens iron.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen."

Rev 17:14 They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful."

Many are called...in other words, many will hear the gospel - being called to repentance. That does not mean that they will repent or that they have been chosen by God.

Php 4:3 Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

(Those called and chosen by the Lord have their names written in the Book of Life)

Rev 3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

(Repeating the message of John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.)

Rev 13:8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

(Obviously there are those whose names are not written in the Book of Life - also note that the names written in the Book of Life were written in the book before the foundations of the Earth)

Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.

(Same as above for the purposes of this discussion)

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.

(Just as those headed to the Lake of Fire will face judgment based upon their works, so too will those destined for heaven be judged and rewarded based upon their works.)

Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

(This statement is not needed if everyone is called and chosen)

Rev 21:27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.

(Salvation is for those that God calls and chooses, these had their names written in the Book of Life before the foundations of the World were set in place. Predestination is not a Calvinistic invention, it is a biblical principle.)

Eph 1:11-12 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.

If it was God's will that none perish, then none would perish. We don't understand why some perish and others don't, we only know that they do. His ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts. I am certain that He knows what He is doing, and that the reasons for these things are just and righteous.
 
Threads like this is where we have decided as staff that we want to set up another forum for us to move over into to discuss various subjects like this by invitation. These are good discussions to have in friendly dialogue but better to be had in that type of place. I'll see if we can get that done soon as indeed when mature people can discuss these types of things with one another growth takes place.
 
Thanks Doc, that was a great message! But in response to the other posts, my understanding of the doctrines of John Calvin basically conclude man doesn’t have freewill to choose. The five points aka TULIP came down through Augustine a Catholic. 1) Total depravity or aka original sin- that man suffered total depravity after Adam fell, and as a result his will stop functioning, stuck on disobedience, and all of mankind became captive of sin like some inherited disease. Because of total depravity they taught infant baptism, because if an infant died it could not return to the Lord. If this is correct, then why did the Lord say, “For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.” Rom.9:11. If man was totally deprived, why would God hold each one accountable for there own sin. Ez.18. 2) Unconditional election or aka predestination- that God predestinated whom he would save because of mans total inability or depravity. It appears that the sovereign god of Calvinism has a will in contradiction to God’s. No time in scripture does the word “predestinate” ever refer to the act of receiving Christ, but applies to a man who has already received him. The Lord determined before the foundation of the world (Eph.1:4-5) to adopt every person who got into Jesus Christ. We are chosen: “in Christ” not “outside Christ”. Every man who was ever chosen (Rom.9:11, Eph.1:5) was in Christ. After we are saved, we are placed in Christ, and from that moment our destination was fixed. God had predestined us to the adoption as sons in Christ. How do we get in Christ? We do not get in until we receive Jesus Christ as our personal Saviour. Our adoption is the gracious act on the part of God entirely of mercy for the believer in Christ, and it occurs the moment that one believes in Jesus Christ. John said, “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that when he shall appear, we shall be like him.” 1John 3:2. Why? Because we were predestinated to be conformed to the image of His son (Rom.8:29), and our adoption will be complete at the resurrection. Rom.8:23. The scripture says that he wants all men to repent, be saved, and come to the knowledge of truth. 1Tim.2:4, Titus 2:11, Rom.3:22, 10:11, 10:13, 2Pet.3:9, Ez. 18:23, 18:30, 33:11. 3) Limited atonement- That Christ died for a limited number of sinners, not for all. The scripture says Jesus Christ died for the sins of all. 1John 2:2, Heb. 2:9, 2Cor.5:14-15, 1Tim.2:4-6. 4) Irresistible grace- God even saves the unwilling. In scripture the Lord expects and requires man to make a freewill choice. Josh.24:15, Deut.30:19, 12:6, Ps.119:108. Furthermore, God grace is resistible; quench not the Holy Spirit 1Thes.5:19 do not harden your hearts Ps.95:8, Heb.3:8, 15:4-7, and grieve not the Holy Spirit Eph.4:30. 5) Perseverance of the saints- If this means eternal security, once saved always saved, then it is correct.
 
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