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Evangelical Lutheran Church

F

Faithful Servant

Member
Greetings Brothers & Sisters in Christ,

Please forgive me ahead of time, if any families on here are practicing Lutherans. Our family attends a Lutheran church under the M Synod. However our church services and mission/vision is not that of the old Liturgical Lutheran practices or beliefs. Our pastor is pulling away from that denomination, as we are living biblically based, believing in every tounge, tribe & nation of God's children being united. Sad to say however, no our church does not teach on pm, nor is it ever brought up. I did tell our pastor of this website and he did check into this site once while we were at church. He thought it was funny that we had found another "Pastor Randy on the web." However, we've never discussed the subject again. We may sometime in the future though, as he has a huge transparent, loving & humble heart for all of God's people both lost & found.

So with that being said, there has been an important & sad issue that has arisen in the Evangelical Lutheran Church, which ours is not a part of. My pastor & I have discussed this issue as well. It was just announced yesterday from their church headquarters that their church no longer condemns Homosexuality. Nor do they condemn it for their clergy or others in the church in leadership positions, as long as they're in "committed mono relationships!" Our pastor still loves and cares for his brothers & sisters in Christ, but also is saddened and prays for them to see the light of the gospel as God's word and not to add or take anything away from it. Funny though, if he could just extend that thought process to the truths of Biblical Plural Marriages! Not that our pastors heart will never be open to that though. He is a good, kind & loving man of God. I do pray for him and all the pastors of the world for their eyes & hearts to be open to the truths of Biblical Plural Marriages. However it won't happen over night, as it's been ingrained in them for many generations! This will be a long learning journey that needs to be covered in prayer, seeking God's will to be done in this and in going through this process, we should be keeping it covered in Love & Grace, as Yeshua always extends to us.

This whole issue with the ELC and their new statements of belief and practice is sad. It just amazes me how some who confess to be in the family of God, feel so free to take liberties that are not of God's will or plan for our lives and rewrite His Holy words and commands for us. Now many are taking their freedoms in Christ and twisting and perverting Gods words by now no longer calling sin - sin! We are Free in Christ, but we are not Free to Sin in Christ! And yes sin is sin, and we still love the sinner and do our best to encourage, support, pray for and set Godly examples for them. However as with the person addicted to drinking, we don't say oh yes come to church and btw, it's a byob service so bring plenty to share either! Because we are to love our neighbors as ourselves, we should love them enough to Speak the Truth in LOVE, and not allow them to blindly go down paths of destruction. Being a friend and Christlike with people doesn't mean just telling them what they want to hear all the time. We love them enough to tell them the Truth of God's Love, Power, Grace and His will for our lives. What kind of friend would we be,if we knowingly kept the truth from them and allowed them to go down a path that leads to eternal Hell & torture?! Anywho, enough of my soap box speech here! These issues grieve God's heart and should grieve our hearts as well. Lots to keep lifted in serious prayer to say the least! God be with thee, as we all set out to be a blessing to others and in doing so, being blessed along the way.

FOR HIS GLORY ALONE!
Faithful Servant
 
Hello Again!

Just thought that I should make it clear, that I in no way am passing any harsh judgements on our brothers & sisters in Christ in the ELC. I'm sure not all ELC members agree with this false teaching nor will they support it. Again, this matter is something to keep lifted in serious heart felt prayer, covering our mis-guided brothers & sisters in Christ, that are members of the ELC and are supporting this new false teaching covered in Yeshua's Grace & Love, by sharing added Godly wisdom & His Truths to them along the way. :)

Faithful Servant
 
Another one bites the dust eh? I had the luxary of talking to a pastor that was a member of the United Church before it fell he was among the first churches to break away back in the 80's. At least it makes it more clear cut concerning who is serious about Scripture.
 
It is, however, always instructive to take a good look at what our Savior called hypocrisy at times like this.

Note that we have a situation where something that God called "abomination" is now said to be acceptable by this group. That can only be done, obviously, if they are willing to blatantly deny the Truth of what He Wrote, and His Authority to Write it!

The real irony of this heresy is that it so clearly outlines the idolatry of their position:

Homosexual abominations are ACCEPTABLE if they are Monogamous!

Can you spot the Idol here that has replaced the Word of God ?
 
I glad that FS brought this issue up regarding the ELCA Synod. I, like FS, belong to the LCMS, Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, in which doesn't not believe in this new ruling of allowing homosexuality among the clergy. Many people don't know the differences between the ELCA, LCMS, or the WELS Synods and will assume that being Lutherans we all follow the same doctrines. I want to educate everyone reading that the LCMS or WELS DO NOT believe in the homosexual ruling that was just passed in the ELCA.

I'm grieving much today for my friends who belong to the ELCA that didn't approve of this ruling. I'm sure many of them will leave their home churches. This decision could even break down the rest of the synods. I'm very much in mourning over this situation and the minority of people whom didn't want this to happen.

In Christ's Love,
Michelle
 
The sadness and disappointment in one's denomination is something we have all felt in the past. I hope as God leads us out of these false organizations that we do not look back. And pastors are always friendly when one of their "flock' seems to find new truth and the pastor seems to have little or no reaction and hopes you abandon your new truth. Rest assured, most all the time your denominational pastor will turn you out to dry if you keep following God when it doesn't fit with the local bylaws.
It is remarkable that plural which is scriptural and Godly is actually viewed by many Christians as a worse or on an even par sin with homosexuality.
 
I have to second welltan's motion. I see some double standard in all of this, which is still hypocrisy no matter which way you turn it. No offense please FS, but if your pastor were truly wanting to follow God and His truth in Christ, he would be actively participating on this site like you are. He would not have looked at and dropped the subject like the hot potato that he sees it as. He fears man more than God because he essentially rejected the truth that you presented to him. Pray for him if you like, but rejecting the truth is rejecting the truth, no matter how you slice it. Like Joyce Meyer’s story about the ‘special’ brownies, I ask people just how much dog poop would you like in your brownie? None for me, thanks! How much leaven does it take? My advice is that you stay in that church and be a light shining in their darkness until God tells you to leave or they finally ask you to leave, but that church is no different for rejecting homosexuality, (mono or not) but not accepting Biblical polygyny than is any other man-made denomination that does so. I would recommend you to pray for them once and leave the rest in God’s hands but I would suggest that you continue to follow the light that God is shining on your path and if they want to follow fine, if not leave them. God will sort them out, but no need of you suffering their fate as well. Getting off my soap box now. :D

Be blessed,

Dr. Ray
 
sadly,
all too believable and it wiil not stop with this group :cry:
 
The Seventh-daqy Adventist's Religious Liberty organization sent out a notice of this yesterday.

In it they observe that Luther initiated the Reformation by taking a stand that has come to be known as Sola Scriptura. Sadly, this move constitutes a clear repudiation of that foundational principle.

Their notice carried another interesting piece of news not commonly reported by the various media. I quote:

News reports largely ignored an unusual occurrence: during the vote on gay clergy. During the actual vote, a tornado struck the area surrounding the convention center and knocked the cross off the steeple of the Central Lutheran Church across the street. Inside the convention, the president read Psalm 121, attempting to comfort people. The author of the Lutheran statement on sexuality, Rev. Steven Loy, was quoted as saying: “We trust the weather is not a commentary on our work.”
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Of further interest,

The Seventh-day Adventist Church is attempting to address issues of homosexuality and the church at an historic conference at Andrews University, October 15 – 17. “Marriage, Homosexuality and the Church” involves an interdisciplinary look at theology, pastoral practice, medical issues, and religious freedom. Can our church proclaim a gospel that offers salvation to all, including gays, while also remaining faithful to biblical teachings regarding marriage and human sexuality? I see church leaders striving for just such a balance. The Church State Council is proud to be included among sponsors of this important conference. These issues broadly impact the life of the church, including our religious freedom. Hope to see you there. Register now at http://plusline.org/eventdetail.php?id=10180
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Andrews University is the denomination's premier theological seminary, located in Berrien Springs in SW Michigan. Would be great to be there and divert some attention to PM.

Though, in some ways, I'm primarily concerned about providing many, many tubes of a nice soothing ointment as a humanitarian gesture to the conference presenting participants. There's just something about spending extended periods trying to balance sitting atop fences that seriously promotes a certain ... soreness. *sigh*

Would the Sun of Righteousness please arise with healing in His wings (Mal 4:2), and teach us specifically how to bring effective HEALING, rather than mere impotent tolerence, to homosexuality's distorted minds? Please? Soon?
 
Would the Sun of Righteousness please arise with healing in His wings (Mal 4:2), and teach us specifically how to bring effective HEALING, rather than mere impotent tolerence, to homosexuality's distorted minds?
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Based on that same Scripture, it seems that His bringing the sword of His Word is more likely -- along with a reminder of His clear warning from Matthew 7:23!
 
May be, Mark. But I'm still going to pray for healing first, that some may be saved as brands plucked from the "burning" (pun intended, though dead seriously).
 
Very good, Cecil.

But I remember hearing a good preacher that I much respect commenting on such "priests of Baal" and the warnings of everyone from Isaiah to Ezekiel to Yeshua by saying essentially --
"I just don't intend to stand too close to ANY of 'em from here on out..." :shock:
 
There are answers for any issue in life and Jesus set those forth. And there is a practical approach that will work every time. I cover the principles in some of my writings, most notably recently the teaching entitled, 'The Rules to the Game of Life'.

Homosexuality, (like any problem we face in life really) is just like any issue and reminds me of the old joke about how many psychiatrists it takes to change a light bulb. The answer is only one, but the light bulb really has to want to change. Through the grace that God has given me and the Word He has released into my life, I can (in Christ) deliver ANY homosexual from his bondage. However, they have to want to be healed. It is just like the story of the man by the pool of Bethesda, (John 5:1-15) Jesus asked him if he wanted to be made well. I cannot help heal or deliver anyone who is satisfied living a second rate lifestyle, whether it is related to finances, illness or demonic oppression, (as is homosexuality). I also pray for the lost, but they too have a free will choice to live the lifestyle or to change it through the power of Jesus Christ. Tolerance and acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle is no more acceptable than tolerating the lifestyle of a serial killer, thief, liar or any other sin, small or great, that unbelievers walk in. Our God is a holy God and He requires a holy people, ( I Peter 1:14 and others). He has provided the way to deliverance and healing of any issue in our lives that we want changed, through the acceptance of Christ and walking in the power of the Holy Spirit, so there is no excuse for sickness, depravity, financial lack or any other bondage in the lives of Christians. The shortfall is in the lack of knowing how to walk in the Spirit that the leaders of the modern church exhibit and the fact that people CHOOSE to ignore the principles when preached and exhibited by those who Do know how to operate in them.

Paul was not just giving a suggestion when he wrote the following statements...

I Corinthians 6:9-11 - (NKJV)

9Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

John was not ‘just kidding’ when he wrote the following scripture...

Revelation 21:8 -

8“But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

The fact that the Lutherans did not get the message that God sent through the weather only shows how spiritually blind the modern day church guides, (‘Pharisees’) are and the wide path to the destructive ditch that they and their followers are on. Even the devil can quote scripture, but it will not help him when God finally tosses him into the lake of fire. It does not take a rocket scientist to see the error of the ways of the leaders of the modern Christian church. God will deal with them soon, (Ezekiel chapter 34 and other). Those who do not want to share in that judgment should heed Mark’s warning and not stand too close to them. I would however state categorically that no one will follow someone who claims to have the answer, but remains in bondage in their own lives. We have to walk in the power of the Spirit of God and be free from sin or we will not be a light to those in bondage. Prayer is good, but example is better. If we walk in the perfection of Christ, then those who are willing will see Christ in us and perhaps are willing to choose to be delivered, we will be well able to help them.

Be blessed,

Ray
 
The thing I want to know is why, prithee, is a church interested in promoting religious freedom? Perhaps promoting some theological liberty is in order but a Church should be promoting Christ alone, and be uninterested in promoting people of other religious bents.
 
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