How important is spirituality or faith for a plural marriage to flourish? Surely one can live with other people regardless of ever reading scriptures or regularly attending some type of church service or engage in discussion with other like minded people. But does the lack of faith, the kind that is active and seeks, does that hinder relationships? If you knew someone was interested in plural marriage purely from reading a magazine article about it or watching a tv show and they approached you for information on how to procede...what would your response be? Would you challenge them to seek deeper meaning for what they desired? What if they said they believe polygyny existed in the Bible and this is good enough for them, but didn't want to learn more? And what if someone you cared about was approached by such a person OR was the person seeking (in relation to plural marriage)?
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Does faith matter in plural marriage?
- Thread starter Moxy
- Start date
Eristhophanes
Member
The first olive out of the jar is Christians are forbidden to be unequally yoked (2nd Corinthians 6:14), which is pretty clear in commanding Christians to only marry Christians. For Christians faith is the foundation on which marriage is built. It establishes a common worldview and standard of authority under which the marriage is governed. The various aspects of faith that could or should be part of the lives of the believers is enormous. All this is a structure.
In the long run though, in order for a marriage to flourish something has to be present within that structure that doesn't have anything to do with faith. Meaning, something that is possible regardless of whatever faith a person might ascribe to.
In Genesis 3:16, God said "your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you." What does that mean? [Woman shall desire] the [Man who rules over her]
Ergo, her desire is for a ruler. It's a two-edged sword that says wives will desire their husbands, who shall rule said wives, but implied is the husband must be fit to rule in order to be desirable. That doesn't get taught. If he is not desirable (attractive) to his wife, she will chafe under his rule and there will be problems with rebellion in the kingdom. If he's a Turkey, there could be an attempted coup. (sorry, I had to)
The one common factor I can point to in successful marriages is a husband who is fit to rule, who provides the balance his wife needs. In some areas he is a stern and unmoving oak tree and she can scream, wail and cry with her tears falling like rain, but he is completely unmoved. In other areas he is tender and compassionate. Just like any good ruler who loves his subjects. Likewise, I notice in marriages that are poor or in situations in which the marriage failed, the husband is not or was not a fit ruler. The vast majority of the time, he was all comfort and snuggles but couldn't bring himself to be strong and stern when needed. I get tremendous resistance from men for pointing this out, but it's true.
Athol Kay wrote the book "Married Man Sex Life Primer" and I honestly think if every husband read the book and put what he says in practice, the rate of divorce would plummet. He defines the fitness to rule in terms of alpha and beta with their corresponding hormone responses of dopamine and oxytocin. He does quite a good job of making sense of it and backs up what he says. In addition, all men should read the books by Rollo Tomassi: "The Rational Male" and "The Rational Male: Prescriptive Medicine" before they even consider getting married. Athol is an atheist, formerly a conservative Christian Kiwi. Rollo is a professed Christian although I don't know what that means to him.
One claims to have had faith, one claims to have faith, both of them know what they're talking about. I, of course, have a long history as being a rather disreputable fellow, a known heretic and iconoclast, an admitted adulterer of legendary proportions, a world traveler who has a thick file with multiple intelligence services, an all-round troublemaker and raconteur who was once arrested for the desecration* of a national shrine with a "public display of phallic contempt."
And yet, I am saved by grace, through faith.
So, I am not at all making light of the need for faith or the impact of faith within a relationship, but I do know this: her desire (attraction) is far more important in marital relationships than the vast majority of people of faith are willing to admit. And because of feminism, you will seldom if ever hear a sermon on Genesis 3:16, unless it's to talk about how the curse has been lifted.
As to faith, it is given to man to live, to die and then judgment; and faith will determine whether one stands in the day of judgment before the White Throne, or whether one kneels before the bema seat.
As to marriage, the authority to initiate marriage is the birthright of each individual man. Why a man chooses to marry is up to him and others may think the reason wise or unwise, but it is his to make. Likewise the choice to take more than one wife. There are plenty of people who will say wanting more sex isn't a reason to take another wife or taking another wife should only be done because God called you to do so... and while everyone is free to have an opinion, ultimately it falls to the individual man and what he wants.
A lot of men might want a plural marriage, but the perception of how fit he is to rule will determine how attractive he is, which will determine whether he gets married at all. His actual fitness or lack of fitness will in large part determine the success or failure of any marriage he gets.
*I did apologize and I truly meant no disrespect, it's just that it looked like a canal, Japan doesn't do public toilets and my back teeth were floating. And if there had been even one sign in English saying it was the moat of the Imperial Palace, I wouldn't have pissed in it.
In the long run though, in order for a marriage to flourish something has to be present within that structure that doesn't have anything to do with faith. Meaning, something that is possible regardless of whatever faith a person might ascribe to.
In Genesis 3:16, God said "your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you." What does that mean? [Woman shall desire] the [Man who rules over her]
Ergo, her desire is for a ruler. It's a two-edged sword that says wives will desire their husbands, who shall rule said wives, but implied is the husband must be fit to rule in order to be desirable. That doesn't get taught. If he is not desirable (attractive) to his wife, she will chafe under his rule and there will be problems with rebellion in the kingdom. If he's a Turkey, there could be an attempted coup. (sorry, I had to)
The one common factor I can point to in successful marriages is a husband who is fit to rule, who provides the balance his wife needs. In some areas he is a stern and unmoving oak tree and she can scream, wail and cry with her tears falling like rain, but he is completely unmoved. In other areas he is tender and compassionate. Just like any good ruler who loves his subjects. Likewise, I notice in marriages that are poor or in situations in which the marriage failed, the husband is not or was not a fit ruler. The vast majority of the time, he was all comfort and snuggles but couldn't bring himself to be strong and stern when needed. I get tremendous resistance from men for pointing this out, but it's true.
Athol Kay wrote the book "Married Man Sex Life Primer" and I honestly think if every husband read the book and put what he says in practice, the rate of divorce would plummet. He defines the fitness to rule in terms of alpha and beta with their corresponding hormone responses of dopamine and oxytocin. He does quite a good job of making sense of it and backs up what he says. In addition, all men should read the books by Rollo Tomassi: "The Rational Male" and "The Rational Male: Prescriptive Medicine" before they even consider getting married. Athol is an atheist, formerly a conservative Christian Kiwi. Rollo is a professed Christian although I don't know what that means to him.
One claims to have had faith, one claims to have faith, both of them know what they're talking about. I, of course, have a long history as being a rather disreputable fellow, a known heretic and iconoclast, an admitted adulterer of legendary proportions, a world traveler who has a thick file with multiple intelligence services, an all-round troublemaker and raconteur who was once arrested for the desecration* of a national shrine with a "public display of phallic contempt."
And yet, I am saved by grace, through faith.
So, I am not at all making light of the need for faith or the impact of faith within a relationship, but I do know this: her desire (attraction) is far more important in marital relationships than the vast majority of people of faith are willing to admit. And because of feminism, you will seldom if ever hear a sermon on Genesis 3:16, unless it's to talk about how the curse has been lifted.
As to faith, it is given to man to live, to die and then judgment; and faith will determine whether one stands in the day of judgment before the White Throne, or whether one kneels before the bema seat.
As to marriage, the authority to initiate marriage is the birthright of each individual man. Why a man chooses to marry is up to him and others may think the reason wise or unwise, but it is his to make. Likewise the choice to take more than one wife. There are plenty of people who will say wanting more sex isn't a reason to take another wife or taking another wife should only be done because God called you to do so... and while everyone is free to have an opinion, ultimately it falls to the individual man and what he wants.
A lot of men might want a plural marriage, but the perception of how fit he is to rule will determine how attractive he is, which will determine whether he gets married at all. His actual fitness or lack of fitness will in large part determine the success or failure of any marriage he gets.
*I did apologize and I truly meant no disrespect, it's just that it looked like a canal, Japan doesn't do public toilets and my back teeth were floating. And if there had been even one sign in English saying it was the moat of the Imperial Palace, I wouldn't have pissed in it.
I think it matters in the same way that faith matters in any situation a Christian finds themselves in. So yes, it matters. There is a second question that arises, can non-believers successfully practice plural marriage? I think the answer would be a resounding yes. God designed mankind, and in that design are biological prerogatives, and those tend to apply to all people at all times (we share a genome don't we?).
Sometimes secular insight can be some of the best insight, and really often confirms the veracity of God's word. I think this is why Eristhophanes encourages that book so much, because indeed the biological insight in that book is legitimate and it can help point you in the direction of applying the alpha traits your wife would be attracted to. With that said, ultimately its about hierarchy and application. I subject every new thing I learn to God's word, as it is my lamp and light. Don't read that book without truly knowing and believing the word first, because it is a mixed bag.
Finally, for me, I will say this. If the truth hadn't been clearly laid out in his word, I would not be in the precarious situation with my wife. As tough as it has been (and it has been tough, even tonight we had a spat because she "can't stand" my beliefs. Truth is, I would choose God's word over and over again over any woman. So for me, faith is a cornerstone in this, because faith brought me my dilemma with my wife (or maybe my ignorance upon initial marriage?). Also, without faith, I would cave to my wifes desire to "fix" me, but as it is, I can't be fixed by anything but what proceeds from the mouth of God.
Sometimes secular insight can be some of the best insight, and really often confirms the veracity of God's word. I think this is why Eristhophanes encourages that book so much, because indeed the biological insight in that book is legitimate and it can help point you in the direction of applying the alpha traits your wife would be attracted to. With that said, ultimately its about hierarchy and application. I subject every new thing I learn to God's word, as it is my lamp and light. Don't read that book without truly knowing and believing the word first, because it is a mixed bag.
Finally, for me, I will say this. If the truth hadn't been clearly laid out in his word, I would not be in the precarious situation with my wife. As tough as it has been (and it has been tough, even tonight we had a spat because she "can't stand" my beliefs. Truth is, I would choose God's word over and over again over any woman. So for me, faith is a cornerstone in this, because faith brought me my dilemma with my wife (or maybe my ignorance upon initial marriage?). Also, without faith, I would cave to my wifes desire to "fix" me, but as it is, I can't be fixed by anything but what proceeds from the mouth of God.
Moxy - I'm proceeding on the assumption that everybody involved in this situation is a committed Christian, and that the seeker just doesn't want to do a really in depth study of the bible to know all the mysteries contained. I don't think I would impress upon them the necessity to learn on the basis of "It's the only way it will work out".
If they weren't in fellowship, that's its own problem that needs to be dealt with whether or not a marriage takes place. Likewise with reading the scripture.
I see eligibility for marriage (plural or otherwise) as having little to do with "maturity in faith". Paul insists upon marriage for men and women who have enough sexual appetite to warrant it. The depth of their faith isn't called into question, on this point the issue is more along the lines of temptation avoidance.
My advise to a friend would differ depending on if it was a man or woman. If a woman friend was going to get all poly'd up, I wouldn't even try to impress upon her any teachings. Her learning is... optional... in some cases; also her instruction is not my business. That will fall on her new husband's shoulders anyways.
If my friend was a man considering shepherding more than one girl at a time, it would be a bit different. He needs to be ready to answer the spiritual needs and questions of two (or more, possibly) women. If He thinks he can slide on that, I think he's a nutbar. I would highly encourage him to be very spiritual, and very diligent in study. Wimmins are not easy folk to handle, not by default.
Even having said that, I don't think its an absolute necessity to make a relationship work. I know a number of committed marriages where one or both partners are just sort of nominal, not terribly involved christians. Their laid back attitude makes my teeth itch, but my opinions don't seem to impede the strength of their marriages, which just keep chugging along year after year.
If they weren't in fellowship, that's its own problem that needs to be dealt with whether or not a marriage takes place. Likewise with reading the scripture.
I see eligibility for marriage (plural or otherwise) as having little to do with "maturity in faith". Paul insists upon marriage for men and women who have enough sexual appetite to warrant it. The depth of their faith isn't called into question, on this point the issue is more along the lines of temptation avoidance.
My advise to a friend would differ depending on if it was a man or woman. If a woman friend was going to get all poly'd up, I wouldn't even try to impress upon her any teachings. Her learning is... optional... in some cases; also her instruction is not my business. That will fall on her new husband's shoulders anyways.
If my friend was a man considering shepherding more than one girl at a time, it would be a bit different. He needs to be ready to answer the spiritual needs and questions of two (or more, possibly) women. If He thinks he can slide on that, I think he's a nutbar. I would highly encourage him to be very spiritual, and very diligent in study. Wimmins are not easy folk to handle, not by default.
Even having said that, I don't think its an absolute necessity to make a relationship work. I know a number of committed marriages where one or both partners are just sort of nominal, not terribly involved christians. Their laid back attitude makes my teeth itch, but my opinions don't seem to impede the strength of their marriages, which just keep chugging along year after year.
I appreciate the thoughtful responses and have been mulling them over lately. I asked because i (a single lady) had been in fact approached by a couple who had basically no interest in religion in any shape or form whatsoever. To quote Slumberfreeze...it did make my teeth itch (i like the vision of that too). Faith is something i have been deeply interested in since i was a little girl, but i grew up in a non practicing Catholic home. I have made a few stumbles along the way in my faith journey over the past decade, but have had some incredible experiences (albeit negative) with several polygamous families. My uneasiness was validated when the husband recently pressed the topic of sex and admitted he was only wanting another sexual partner since his wife wasn't interested in that area anymore. Problem solved.
Ack. Kill all humans. Start over.
Well, you dodged a bullet then.
Well, you dodged a bullet then.
Very boo. Sorry Moxy. People do have a disturbing tendency to be horrible.
I think it is possible to make a marriage work were one individual is a believer and the other isn't... depending on the people in the marriage. Otherwise, Paul would not have told the believing spouse to stay with an unbelieving spouse if the unbeliever was pleased to stay with them. However, that yoke can dig sooo deep and be sooo MISERABLE, if you know what i mean. I know from experience.
I agree with you. I have learned over the years and my many interactions with others/families that faith is something that is important to me and should be considered a major factor. I'm glad the Spirit spoke to me and prepared me for that reveal..and that i took the time to ponder it and not act rashly. I guess good things do come with age
