• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Did Jesus have an issue with money?

In vertas defense. He most likely started this thread, because he may have felt my response to my neighbor ancientpaths was disrespectful in some way. And with his legalistic understanding knew that moving it here under the terms of preventing a topic derailment in another thread would allow others to make sport of me to "teach me a lesson" in his want to defend others which is a quality of his. Not knowing that I was simply defending my beliefs. Or perhaps he just saw the start of a new and interesting thread. Either way I only feel he had the best of intentions. And I am so extremely happy to have been able to share my beliefs here even if I never intended to. And asformeandmyhouse he has a great sense of humor and I appreciate it very much his joke about sacrificing a goat in a church would be more acceptable still makes me smile every time I read it on another thread.
 
It is common for the rabbit trail threads on an original post to get moved to a new thread under the topic being discussed. This topic has gained 80 posts that had nothing to do with the original post it was on. 5 pages..

The more you are a part of BF, you will see it as a courtesy to the original poster, not as a malicious way to teach you a lesson. There have been a few times my original post had turned into a back and forth debate that had nothing to do with the topic I originally posted about. I appreciate when the banter is moved elsewhere and I know others appreciate it as well.
 
I knew they got moved I also knew a person had to decide to move them as the system itself. Is not self aware, Veritas was the only mod I saw at the time so It probably was him as far as his motives I'm certain they were innocent just as mine and everyone else's have been. There is a reason for everything that happens and we learn nothing if we dont try to understand the deeper reasons things take place around us.
 
one thing is certain if you refuse to serve the graven images, and idols forced upon you by society, you become seperated from that society.
the reason people cant accept that money now has graven images on them and they sin by serving it is because they want to do right. They want to obey the ten commandments. Its hard to handle knowing your violating a commandment daily and are trapped doing so.
so people have to try to disprove it. When the fact is there is nothing we can do about it but let go of our pride admit we are sinners and repent of our nature.

all your rightousness is as filthy rags and so is mine. I cant change that but maybe one day together Christians can work together make a new currency free of graven images and take back our kingdom through it and live by Gods law in this fallen world.

I have my eye on the long game here.
 
crosses and crucifixes don't violate the second commandment unless they are made after a star pattern, a statue of jesus would though especially if it were worshiped. As he intended us to worship the father. thats my personal view though.
digital currencies on the other hand are a whole new creature. within them we may find a means of escape from the oppression of the many at the hands of the few unless they are also just abused and controlled by those who do not have the human races best interests in mind. A digital currency could be served as a God or it could be the very liberation that we need to escape the current system. It could be even worse though, as cutting of your ablity to use it would be much faster than just freezing your bank account. Honestly with the personal identity rating type systems that are developing in China and that social networks are experimenting with. A person could very quickly find themselves unable to pay thier bills or buy food simply because they were a christian, Jew, or any other group. So like all things it would have a possibility for good or evil.

I personally would want to be able to feed myself independent of society and their monetary systems, but doing so is difficult. as their systems expand they remove your ability to do so. scripturally I personally dont think digital currency can be condemed. Is it potentially very dangerous. yes I feel it is dangerous.
it will most likely amplify the wickedness that came from the use of money already as it moves much quiker and will give government potential full control of your life. but that just my personal opinion.
 
So with the context of crosses and crucifixes its not that it is an engraved image that makes it sinful it is the worship of the image and not God that sin enters in?

With the digital currency, even though it's not an engraved image, it's how people turn money into an idol that makes it sinful?
 
it is against scripture to make a graven image that is made after anything in the heavens above or earth below essentially things that are part of Gods creation. A cross is a tool to kill or torture with its not a thing that is worshiped. people do worship them though and are wrong in doing so that would violate it. but if it was made after a constelation it would. it depends on what the image is of. or if it is something that is an idol already like a false god
 
a cross is not something God created so it does not apply. and apple may, the sun, an eagle, the head of a president, all those would apply. a false god of a pagan religion would also apply.
 
yes money seperate from a graven image like digital currency would potentially depend upon its use. If you have faith in its value, plan your entire life upon having it, spend years of your life just so you can attain it, raise your children planning their entire hopes of their futures to simply attain it, abort children to prevent from spending it, protect it with your very life.
If this is what people do to obtain it, keep it and be able to use it if its not an idol then what would it be?
 
Agree.

I think currency in and of itself isn't sinful but a tool that people so very easily turn into an idol.

I'm curious about you thoughts on a crucifix instead of just a cross.
 
honestly im not into crosses or crucifixes as to me they represent a reminded of the suffering that christ went through. only for most of his teachings to just be ignored.
 
Posts are moved for the benefit of everybody involved, to keep discussions focussed. If you start presuming negative intentions everywhere, you'll just think the world is against you.

You have claimed in various places that it would be acceptable for God to tell somebody to violate His commandments (ie to sin). These are the examples you gave:
Herbie said:
He also had elisha to tell a messenger to lie to a person that they would be healed when God had shown elisha that the person would certainly die.
...
consider the donkey they took for him to ride into jeruseam so he could over throw the tables. he said go and loose the donkey and if any one asks say the Lord has need of it. Thou shalt not steal.
Click to expand...
Lying is not sinful. It is never forbidden. However, people often simplify the 9th commandment by teaching children that it means "don't lie", so many people remain under the impression that lying is sinful. It is not. It is only sinful to bear false witness - to lie in order to get someone falsely convicted of a crime, or falsely found innocent. Lying in general is never forbidden, and there are plenty of examples of it throughout scripture, especially to protect people's lives (e.g. Rahab's lie in Joshua 2:4-5). Even Jesus himself lied in John 7:8-10.

Furthermore we are never told they were "stealing" the donkey. He used it for one trip, he never had it after that. They were borrowing the donkey. And they were specifically allowed to do so by the people who noticed they were borrowing it (Mark 11:6).

Nowhere does God command anybody to sin. If it is sinful to use money, yet God tells people to use money, then God is instructing people to sin. That is one of the most fundamental problems with your logic.

I agree money is problematic. Digital money has even MORE problems than physical money, as it is so much easier to control people using it, and it is likely that some form of digital currency will be related to the mark of the beast (given the buying & selling control). Nevertheless, I cannot agree with the arguments you are making regarding physical money.

What do you think the word "engraved" means? Do you take it to mean "carved into metal"? Given you don't see an image of a face as engraving (e.g. your profile picture on this website), is it ok to use paper money (which just has printed faces, not engraved), cheques (which have no images), and electronic money cards?
 
if a crucifix has jesus on the cross which i believe is what you mean then yes it would be a graven image if it was engraven.
 
FollowingHim said:
Posts are moved for the benefit of everybody involved, to keep discussions focussed. If you start presuming negative intentions everywhere, you'll just think the world is against you.

You have claimed in various places that it would be acceptable for God to tell somebody to violate His commandments (ie to sin). These are the examples you gave:

Lying is not sinful. It is never forbidden. However, people often simplify the 9th commandment by teaching children that it means "don't lie", so many people remain under the impression that lying is sinful. It is not. It is only sinful to bear false witness - to lie in order to get someone falsely convicted of a crime, or falsely found innocent. Lying in general is never forbidden, and there are plenty of examples of it throughout scripture, especially to protect people's lives (e.g. Rahab's lie in Joshua 2:4-5). Even Jesus himself lied in John 7:8-10.

Furthermore we are never told they were "stealing" the donkey. He used it for one trip, he never had it after that. They were borrowing the donkey. And they were specifically allowed to do so by the people who noticed they were borrowing it (Mark 11:6).

Nowhere does God command anybody to sin. If it is sinful to use money, yet God tells people to use money, then God is instructing people to sin. That is one of the most fundamental problems with your logic.

I agree money is problematic. Digital money has even MORE problems than physical money, as it is so much easier to control people using it, and it is likely that some form of digital currency will be related to the mark of the beast (given the buying & selling control). Nevertheless, I cannot agree with the arguments you are making regarding physical money.

What do you think the word "engraved" means? Do you take it to mean "carved into metal"? Given you don't see an image of a face as engraving (e.g. your profile picture on this website), is it ok to use paper money (which just has printed faces, not engraved), cheques (which have no images), and electronic money cards?
Click to expand...
well paper money is a replica of a graven image the plates it is made from are engraven so to me it would apply. your very correct about lying not beeing a sin it is however an abomination to the Lord.
Proverbs 6:16-19 King James Version (KJV)
16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

the donkey was Gods property as all things on the face of the earth so His son said to go get it. and the people did get permission for him to use it I can agree with you on this. as you are correct I used a bad example. But God can insrtruct people to do anything he chooses where is he limited in such a fashion? Is this some rule that God is required to obey?
 
Interesting so a crucifix is sinful?

What about a Yin Yang symbol? It doesn't occur in nature and is a creation of man. Would it not be sinful to have a coin with a Yin Yang symbol?

Also what about letters in the English language? They too don't occur in nature so even though the letters are engraved and then pressed to the page a book wouldn't be sinful? Unless the book had a picture of something natural in it then the book is now sinful?
 
i agree with you that digital currency will most likely lead to the mark of the beast as well.
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
who had wisdom solomon in 1 kings 3 God grants solomon wisdom.

12 I will do what you have asked. I will give you a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like you, nor will there ever be.

is it coincidence that it is also the weight of Gold that came to solomon in one year 1 kings 10 14
14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold.
i agree with you on that. the only difference is i think regualar money could also in some way already be the mark of the beast. but if its not the digial currency sure will lead to it. either way its tied to money.
 
Mage said:
Interesting so a crucifix is sinful?

What about a Yin Yang symbol? It doesn't occur in nature and is a creation of man. Would it not be sinful to have a coin with a Yin Yang symbol?

Also what about letters in the English language? They too don't occur in nature so even though the letters are engraved and then pressed to the page a book wouldn't be sinful? Unless the book had a picture of something natural in it then the book is now sinful?
Click to expand...
no the act of making the crucifix is a sin so would be worshiping it. Just like money an inanimate object can not be sinful. as only people can sin. a picture is not a graven image as it is not carved if it was printed from a plate perhaps. i don't know anything about yin yang or letters in nature. random things can appear anywhere. i would advise reading exodus 20 and seeing if it applies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top