Did Jesus have an issue with money?

[Herbie]

While many people different views of the son of God I think a simplistic approach is best. When you go to study his life just remember that what he said during his somesay 3 year mission is actually very limited. You could simply get a words in red bible where what he speaks is outlined in red and just skim through and read what he actually said while periodically checking the surrounding context.

I always advise readers to keep in mind that he was not always the quiet kind pushover presented by modern christiandom. He was not a Christian. He was a Jew. There is no record of him ever handling money that was in the form of a graven image or money period. Even when asking to be shown a coin about tribute it never says he held it. He was not a materialistic person and he did not have a great deal of like of the people who ran the churches/ synagogues of the time. Lastly remember that Paul was not the son of God he may have been a good preacher but he was not The Christ. Only the son of God can save you.

 

[PeteR]

There is no record of him ever handling money that was in the form of a graven image or money period. Even when asking to be shown a coin about tribute it never says he held it.

I think your argument is flawed.... It is an argument from silence. There is no record of him driving a car, or plowing, or swimming, or climbing mountain.... Scripture says the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.. God commands certain specific Temple taxes that were coinage.

Jesus/ Yeshua's point is that we have the image of God on us and therefore should render to Him what is His.

Brachot

 

[Herbie]

you cant serve two masters. Its made very clear that he did not handle money. Had he Peter would of not had to have gotten a coin from a fishes mouth. I dont have an argument I only pointed out what we at able to see from the scripture. If your argument is that the son of God handled and served a graven image that enslaved the rest of society at his time I can only respectfully disagree with you sir.

 

[Herbie]

also it is not a violation of the commandments to: drive a car, to plow, to swim, or to climb a mountain. It is a violation to serve a graven image however. Did people grow crops and sell them at market for God or to recieve graven images that their very survival depended upon. Unless they could trade. The son of God had to be sinless. Perfect. It however does not mention him having homosexual encounters with the disciples under your pretext are we to assume silence says that he may have commited other sins. I can only disagree. He was the sinless Son of the most high neighbor. If not we would be in an awful bad way.

 

[Herbie]

its also ironic that you mention the temple tax as it is the very thing that was attempted to ensnare the son of God by those who served the graven images of the day. The disciple was one of the two that did handle money. Both are recorded as having Satan speak through them, and both betrayed him one denying him three times the other the treasurer actually handing him over to be killed by the very people who served the graven images and made them. Both making great examples of His message. also at the time there were people who paid temple tax in unadulterated Gold and silver. I have also heard that people paid in animals grain and things like that.

 

[Herbie]

He did however tell people to carry purse and script at one time after telling them earlier not to. Idk though as they were not the son of God and were sinners. he also said to buy a sword. then peter cut off that guys ear. so idk about sinners in general but the Son of God would not have been carrying it around.

 

[Herbie]

this post transferred over from an off topic titled "random in my feels" as context is always crucial to any discussion my initial post in this thread was in fact a direct respose to:
"i really do need to buckle down and start on a better relationship with Jesus. But to be honest I don’t understand have the stuff in the Bible so when I read it it confuses me and I stop reading it. Prayer I never know what to say so i basically have a conversation like I would with any one for the most part. Lol"

The discussion now centers around the fact that if jesus had been carrying and using the money of the time. Which did in fact have Graven images on it meaning if he carried, used, and worked for it he would not have been sinless as He would have been in violation of the second commandment. As they had an image of a mans face thereon.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

This is not stating that Jesus has a problem with money, as money is not required to violate the commandments by having a graven image. This is stating that Jesus did not hande, work for, or serve money because it had graven images thereon.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Its made very clear that he did not handle money. Had he Peter would of not had to have gotten a coin from a fishes mouth.

I think what @Ancient Paths is trying to convey is that it’s not clear at all that Christ did not handle money. To my knowledge there’s nowhere in Scripture or later documents that would definitively support that position with a statement to that effect (I.e. Christ never handled money) Rather your position seems to be supported primarily by Scripture never recording that Christ handled money. This is called an argument from silence and is therefor highly subjective and able to be manipulated resulting in very high levels of skepticism by those you are trying to convince of your position.

This is further exacerbated when an example that you cite is of when Christ tells Peter to go catch a fish that He knew would have this particular coin with the accompanying graven image to pay the Temple tax with in His Fathers house. If your position is correct then a proof text that you’ve used puts Christ as someone who tells one of His followers to engage in idolatry and defile His Fathers house.

I’m not saying your position is right or wrong. I’m saying you are utilizing several logical fallacies to try to present or prove your position.

 

[Herbie]

The problem here is that the people running his fathers house were already engaged in idolatry. Peter was a sinner and would not die for the sins of the world in this context. It would not have been sin for him to instruct peter to do so, what I am saying does make people uncomfortable because it means they they are also guilty of sin by serving graven images and don't like it. But we are all sinners. We do our best to not be But we are. His fathers house was already being defiled daily by people serving graven images. Im just very glad He did not serve or work for graven images or we could not be saved by his perfect sacrifice.

 

[Herbie]

But to quote you a verse that he did not handle or serve the graven images of that day
2 corinthians 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[aineo]

Herbie, I appreciate the vigor you present in your argument, but I have to agree that I think it is flawed. The word “graven image” comes from Deuteronomy 20:4, and it seems to me it is clearly talking about an idol. Of course, the next question for me is whether money was an idol or whether the image of an idol was engraved on the money. I don’t think a Roman Emporer would be considered an idol, but certainly money could. However, money is an idol in the eye of the beholder. It isn’t directly made as an object of worship.

I interpret Jesus’ command to Peter to find the coin in the mouth of the fish differently. Jesus stated they didn’t owe the tax, so, rather than pay it from their funds (which they presumably had), he created another opportunity so as not to pay it with their money, but to provide a way for it to be paid.

 

[aineo]

But to quote you a verse that he did not handle or serve the graven images of that day
2 corinthians 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

This presumes money is considered a “graven image”. Can you evidence that?

 

[Herbie]

Judas had the funds as treasurer. Roman emperors decalred themselves to be gods. Shadrak meshak and abendigo i admit i spelled those name so wrong just now all refused to worship a graven image made by a king size of a graven image or mode of worship of a graven image is irrelevent what is is that it is a violation of gods law.

 

[Herbie]

https://www.moneyfactory.gov/ bureau of engraving and printing all modern money is engraven from the plates that make it to the details in correction. ancient money was also engraved or minted by engraving

 

[Herbie]

as far as it being wrong for jesus to tell peter to pay the taxes. elisha told a man to lie surely upon Gods request 2 kings 8 10 And Elisha said unto him, Go, say unto him, Thou mayest certainly recover: howbeit the Lord hath shewed me that he shall surely die.
Now elisha did not die for our sins but i, do think it is a simmilar reference.

 

[aineo]

I don’t think I’m going to continue debating this, as I’m not sure we’re going to influence each other one way or the other. I simply disagree that money is a graven image. I do not think a coin was made to be worshipped. To be certain, I am not debating whether people worship money or not. That’s a different story.

 

[Herbie]

This presumes money is considered a “graven image”. Can you evidence that?

how else could it be made? even miniting must be engraven to be minted.

 

[Herbie]

I can admit that I am a sinner and commit sin by using graven images to survive. But Jesus died so I can be forgiven. Its not my fault I am forced to live in sin.

 

[aineo]

As I said earlier, I think the Hebrew word is simply talking about idols.

פֶּסֶל‎: פסל‎, Bauer-L. Heb. 566e; MHeb. CTA (Kuhn Konkordanz 179) pl. !, cstr. פסלי‎: פָּֽסֶל‎, sf. הָסאלסדוט֫‎/פִּסְלִי‎, פִּסְלָם‎, pl. → *פָּסִיל‎(Bernhardt Gott und Bild 1136; Preuss CTA 92 (1971) 196f; Zimmerli ThB 19 (1963) 242f and Grundriss 104; CTA2 100 and in general Reicke-R. Hw. 249f): originally a divine image carved from wood or sculpted from stone, but later cast in metal.
1. a. from wood or stone Ex 204 (parallel with תְּמוּנָה‎), Lv 261 (parallel with מַצֵּבָה‎), פֶּסֶל תְּמוּנַת־‎ Dt 416.23.25, כָּל־תְּמוּנָה פֶּסֶל‎ Dt 58, Ju 1817f.20.30f, 173f 1814, see b; Hab 218, Ps 977 (or as d ?); b. from wood Is 4217 4415.17 4520 485; probably also thus in וֹמַסֵּכָה פֶּסֶל‎ Dt 2715 Ju 173f 1814 Nah 114, if it may be treated as CTA for a wooden image with an overlay of metal (Elliger BK 11:74; cf. C.R. North CTA 77 (1958) 154); c. made from metal: with נָסַךְ‎ Is 4019 4410, with צָרַף‎ Jr 1014 5117; d. made from metal or wood Is 4020 449; probably the same also in פֶּסֶל הָאֲשֵׁרָה‎ 2K 217 = פֶּ׳ הַסֶּמֶל‎ 2C 337.
2. expressions: with יָצַר‎ Is 449 Hab 218; with פָּסַל‎ Hab 218; with עָשָׂה‎ Ex 204 Dt 416.23.25 58 2715 Ju 173f 1831; with נָסַךְ‎ Is 4019 4410; with צָרַף‎ Is 1014 5117; with הֵקִים‎ Lv 261; with שִׂים‎ Ju 1831 2K 217 2C 337; with נָשָׂא‎ Is 4520; with סָגַד לְ‎ Is 4415; with עָבַד‎ Ps 977; with בָּטַח לְ‎ Is 4217; with בּוֹשׁ‎ or הוֹבִישׁ מִן‎ Ps 977 Jr 1014 5117. †

 

[steve]

You are flying Assumption Airlines.
Yeshua’s little troop had s common purse that was carried by Judas. You demean him if you are going to claim that he had his disciples do what was wrong so that he could remain pure.