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Dancing like David danced
- Thread starter Shadowjak's Dancer
- Start date
Haha, good questions. You may be surprised to know that ultra-orthodox Jewish sects require the lights to be off during lovemaking, and some even have a special sheet to separate the man from the woman so that she may remain modest even during procreation. So I know you are asking in jest (and it was fun to read) but yes, some do view it this way as modesty (in the dress code sense) has long been the tradition in Israel (people not country). In a shower with a window precautions are to be taken since the spirits can see (and some are perverted).
Before we laugh too hardily about this, let's consider
1 Corinthians 11:10 For this reason a woman should have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.
-NET bible
Paul seems concerned that those rascally angels may see the hot lady and take action
so better cover that head up!In our culture, if a woman will be seen naked we only allow it to be a female physician seeing her.
Doctors are people too and they can get aroused by patients. I've got a pal who has told me such...
nice euphemism ...
The issue with Noah is likely not that he was literally "seen naked" by Ham (not kosher), but that Ham did something sexual to Noah or Noah's wife.
"to see the nakedness of so-and-so" means "have sex with so-and-so" or "have sex with so-and-so's wife".
Some Jewish traditions says Ham castrated Noah while he was asleep (others say he raped his father), yikes! Yeah, that deserves a curse but why curse Canaan instead of Ham for this?
Also, who would sleep through being castrated or raped?
Sleeping with Noah's wife, however, is an attack on the patriarchy in that the next child could actually be Ham's. It messes with the line of decent and so for that reason Noah cursed Canaan (Ham's son). It's also something you could imagine he might sleep through. Ham tried to usurp his father's line, so Ham's line was then cursed by Noah.
Just to make sure we are all on the same page here, everyone realizes that David was wearing clothes when he danced before the ark of the Covenant right?
He was not naked. Nakedness was just the accusation Mikhal hurled at him since she despised him. Taking her accusation and running with it is akin to taking Esau's accusations of Jacob as some way legitimate (or Laban's for that matter).
He was not naked. Nakedness was just the accusation Mikhal hurled at him since she despised him. Taking her accusation and running with it is akin to taking Esau's accusations of Jacob as some way legitimate (or Laban's for that matter).
I have read that explanation more often, but how to explain then the other two walking backwards into the tent? If he would sleep with his father's wife, then why weren't they shouting to stop it immediately? Any thoughts on that?
There likely was real nakedness involved; They covered Noah's wife i.e. "Noah's nakedness"
Shouting, who knows. I can think of many scenarios where there would be no shouting. Wife is drunk too, wife's mouth is covered with Ham's hand so she can't shout for help, other sons are out and about and only show up later, etc.
Wasn't it something more akin to dancing in his underwear?
1 Corinthians 11:10 For this reason a woman should have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.
-NET bible
Paul seems concerned that those rascally angels may see the hot lady and take action
This passage is a mystery to most commentators, though I have some good theories. But without going into digression I'd say it is most likely the issue at hand is the presence/absence of the symbol of authority, not modesty which really isn't an issue brought up in the passage.
Though often in Christian history the covering was also used for modesty purposes; that wasn't the reason Paul gave for it. Now days few even think of the modesty issue.
That's quite the vid...
He would have been wearing the Levite pants and the ephod. though even if he was just wearing a kind of shorts of sorts, its a far cry from nude...
I'm sold on one Dr. Michael Heiser shares; Paul has in mind the Genesis 6:4 tragedy where the "sons of G-d" married" daughters of men"...
Also hair was believed to play a role in fecundity; the Greek medical texts from the day explain the belief that hair was hollow and made a vacuum bring "seed" into the womb.
This is why Paul says "it's a shame for a man to have long hair" and also why women's hair in that culture should be covered. The word used for the women's hear in Greek is the same word used for Testes in Greek medical texts. Hypocrites also shared this medical belief concerning the hair.
So the argument goes like this "female hair is a genital, you dont want to show your genitals at the congregation...cover up... oh and let's not tempt the angels again..."
So I think it's definitely about modesty, at least in part. ***btw not my idea, I'm just parroting what Heiser teaches on this, I just happen to think it works, combined with several other passages concerning divine counsel/watchers theology ***
Now regarding it being about authority (husbandry etc), among some Jewish groups, a woman covers her head after she's married to both express modesty and to show that she's married.
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"the uploader has made this video unavailable in your country" aaaaawwwwPlease don't throw rotten vegetables at me.I just remembered this old skit and had to put it in. I will crawl back into my cave now.
(don't feel like VPN now)
Same. Apparently we're out of the club
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That is a practice that dates back to at least 2000 B.C. give or take.
The Greeks were right, they were just making up stuff to try and fill in the details why. Sleek shiny hair is an excellent demonstrator of healthy vitamin and mineral levels in the body (and diet). Most notably, the shine is from vitamin A; a lack of which causes sterility.
That is why long sleek hair ranks right up there with waist ratio, breast size, and muscle tone in the factors that are attractive to men. And why women spend so much on hair products to get that shine (along with numerous other cosmetics to fake inborn indicators of good health and genetic fitness).
It's probably a both and situation. But the motivating consideration throughout the whole of the 1 Cor 11 passage on headcovering is authority. The angels are a bit sensitive on the issue of authority due to the watcher's incident. The books of Enoch go into that, not just the watchers but also on angels refusal to subject themselves to authority and what that caused. So I can well see why they'd have issues serving so-called churches or individual's where the women stands in rebellion against God by not covering.
Its just a silly skit about two guys selling Bibles while shirtless. One guy offers to take off his pants and even underwear if it will net sales.Same. Apparently we're out of the club
The Bible mentions naked people over and over and over. Just do a word search for "naked". For instance, when the Holy Spirit fell upon Saul, he stripped off all his clothes and prophecied before Samuel naked (1 Samuel 19:24). Poor people, such as captives in war, are often described as "naked". And we are also told that we are to clothe the naked (Is 58:7) - can't do that if there aren't any naked people to begin with. The assumption seems to be that there WILL be naked people (e.g. Matthew 25:36, James 2:15).
The common theme is that nakedness is shameful and associated with poverty. But NOT that it is sinful - just shameful.
If you see a naked guy, you shouldn't scream "you evil exhibitionist" and try to get him put in jail. You should rather go over and say "sorry to see you're so poor you can't afford clothes, here, have my coat". If you're naked yourself, you should feel embarrassed - NOT because you're doing something sinful and everyone can see how evil you are, but rather because you're telling the world "I'm so poor I can't afford clothes, I'm the lowest person in society, pity me" - which is embarrassing.
I don't agree with deliberate nudism, because that is deliberately choosing something that is shameful and denotes poverty. But I don't see anything sinful about it either - because there's nothing sinful about dressing like a poor guy. It's just not something to seek.
Just read every mention of "naked" in the Bible and look for the general emotions and context for the word.
The common theme is that nakedness is shameful and associated with poverty. But NOT that it is sinful - just shameful.
If you see a naked guy, you shouldn't scream "you evil exhibitionist" and try to get him put in jail. You should rather go over and say "sorry to see you're so poor you can't afford clothes, here, have my coat". If you're naked yourself, you should feel embarrassed - NOT because you're doing something sinful and everyone can see how evil you are, but rather because you're telling the world "I'm so poor I can't afford clothes, I'm the lowest person in society, pity me" - which is embarrassing.
I don't agree with deliberate nudism, because that is deliberately choosing something that is shameful and denotes poverty. But I don't see anything sinful about it either - because there's nothing sinful about dressing like a poor guy. It's just not something to seek.
Just read every mention of "naked" in the Bible and look for the general emotions and context for the word.
That last comment reminded me of A knight's Tale. It is a modern movie with some nudity. One guy had a gambling problem, and lost all his clothes when he chose to wager stuff he didn't even have. I saw this element in the movie as depicting a real world problem, in a realistic way, and saw it as a good story element for future reference in teaching our kids.
All you see is the guys bare rear, and you see those on kids in Disney's Polyanna.
(edited to add that you see his bare everything but man parts, including bare feet that he has to pull thorns out of )
I can usually find a fault in every movie, and nudity can be innapropriate, but in that one I felt the nudity was just part of telling the story.
All you see is the guys bare rear, and you see those on kids in Disney's Polyanna.
(edited to add that you see his bare everything but man parts, including bare feet that he has to pull thorns out of )
I can usually find a fault in every movie, and nudity can be innapropriate, but in that one I felt the nudity was just part of telling the story.
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That was a great movie.
It has survived many a movie purge at our house. Lol I found plenty to like about it.
