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Dancing like David danced

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Shadowjak's Dancer

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I have always thought the song "Dance like David danced" to be a little strange to hear being sung in a worship service by fully clothed and rather staid people.

On the other hand, our Christian brothers are often arguing the so-called "Edenic Ideal". One of the counter-arguments sometimes put forward is about being nudist vegetarians. Like that terrifying video posted on another thread recently regarding those so-called Christian Swingers, there are Churches and groups which advocate for "Christian Naturist/Nudism/whatever else they want to call being in the Edenic outfit."

Now, I think there are some major theological questions about a fully nude church service, etc.

However, if one were out in nature by themselves or accompanied by their wives only in a place where they were certain no one else would see, or in the dead of night, etc., how about that?

Can they spend some time Garden-of-Eden-like with nature and each other with a clear Christian/Messianic conscience?

What are your thoughts, all?
 
I grew up nudist. Get over the "certain no one else would see" bit. Life's too damned short.

I'm not going to argue it. Y'all weren't there. We hung out on summer weekends at the campground with my family and my parents' friends, experienced life, and went to the pool without stressing about getting our suits on first, and it was good no matter what anyone wants to point to in a book.

Most of you will squirm and some will offer what they think are explanations of how it is. That's fine, it's a forum, there's no such thing as the last word here. You've heard from someone who's actually been there and what you do with it is your business.

And of course if it isn't your thing, don't do it.

PS: No offense intended toward OP. My point in the "get over it" remark is that you can hypothesize and get nowhere or just try it and find out. I appreciate OP's broaching of the topic.
 
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mystic said:
it was good no matter what anyone wants to point to in a book
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That statement can be used to self justify pretty much anything someones flesh tells them is good. Fill in the blank
__________ is good no matter what anyone wants to point to in a book.

I personally do not care about what someone else does in the privacy of there own home/church, private campground or on a private beach, if it doesn't affect me and mine. It's between them and G-d. Key word private. If it's done where my kids can see or somehow it effects my family.......... well no matter what anyone wants to point to in The Book I'm going to react in a way I feel is a good way to react. I can promise nobody else is going to think it's good. But that'll be between me and
G-d.

@mystic remind me never to invite you camping

BTW I don't see The Bible as just a book.
 
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mystic said:
I grew up nudist. Get over the "certain no one else would see" bit. Life's too damned short.

I'm not going to argue it. Y'all weren't there. We hung out on summer weekends at the campground with my family and my parents' friends, experienced life, and went to the pool without stressing about getting our suits on first, and it was good no matter what anyone wants to point to in a book.

Most of you will squirm and some will offer what they think are explanations of how it is. That's fine, it's a forum, there's no such thing as the last word here. You've heard from someone who's actually been there and what you do with it is your business.

And of course if it isn't your thing, don't do it.

PS: No offense intended toward OP. My point in the "get over it" remark is that you can hypothesize and get nowhere or just try it and find out. I appreciate OP's broaching of the topic.
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Well this gets my vote for the most fun comment in a long time. I'm constantly amazed by the power of you people to amaze me. I personally couldn't do it without sinning but if someone can then power to the people!

On a not completely unrelated note, I have a new retreat idea. We may have to let Ron take the lead on it though...
 
jacobhaivri said:
Can they spend some time Garden-of-Eden-like with nature and each other with a clear Christian/Messianic conscience?
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The problem to Edenic life, I think, is we lack the capacity for Edenic thought. The fruit is eaten. We know good and evil, and whether we cover ourselves by our own fig-leaves or God clothes us with animal skins, we should be clothed.

We can cavort with our wives in the nude all we please, but we will not be doing anything more profound than attempting to pour new wine into an antediluvian skin. And different attempts to recapture it in various capacities will not "recapture innocence" but train you to forget to blush when you should blush.

As far as with a clear conscience, I couldn't. Nudity is a private thing, and even the remotest wilderness is public. If I put up a tent, I have an expectation of privacy. But If I can hike to a spot, so can another man, and his kids, and his grandmother probably. I'm not much of a hiker.
 
Is there really much difference between a nude beach and just going to a beach these days? Lol
 
@WifeOfHisYouth, I've never seen anything indicating that nakedness is a sin.

## The following is directed at everyone, not specifically at WifeOfHisYouth. ##

I know that the priests had certain vestments they were to wear when ministering, but the rest of the time, and anyone else; I know of no commandment for anyone to wear anything, at all, ever. If one's garment/s are stolen... is one a sinner outside of one's control?

Does anyone have any verse citations indicating that anyone is obliged to wear anything at all, ever? I know one's gut can say that covering up is necessary, but did God ever say that; clearly, and unmistakably? If there is a commandment, I would expect to see it in the Torah, since this matter isn't exactly a new thing.

I suppose the coats of skin were for physical protection outside of the garden (Gen 3:18, Exo 22:27, Jas 2:16) where thorns were going to spring up (Gen 3:18). I don't see a bare action of God to equate to a commandment, else God giving one wife to Adam might constitute a command for monogyny only.

There are primitive cultures today where the women go around topless or nude. Check out this comment http://mychainsaregone.org/the-biblical-shame-of-nakedness/#comment-3371 and then read Pastor David's reply just below it. Oh, and this comment has a VERY interesting observation http://mychainsaregone.org/the-biblical-shame-of-nakedness/#comment-3326 which seems very congruent with Jhn 21:7, and Act 16:3.
 
In the Old Testament G-d told a couple of different guys to prophesy naked, was G-d commanding them to sin?

What are we to make of this verse?
Isaiah 32:11
Tremble, you women who are at ease;
Be troubled, you complacent ones;
Strip yourselves, make yourselves bare,
And gird sackcloth on your waists.
 
ZecAustin said:
Women are commanded to dress modestly which implies some level of dress although I know of nothing specific other than the controversial admonishment for women to cover their heads while praying or prophesying.
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I think the modesty you are referring to, has more to do with not dressing too fancy, fancy hair, fancy clothes, fancy jewelry, etc. I think it has little to do with how much skin is covered.
 
I hold "You shall not uncover the nakedness of..." to be literal as well as a euphemism for sex.

To be naked in public is to be shamed, which scripture relies on a lot. When God told Isaiah to go three years naked, it was not so he could get back to his roots, but to humiliate him to mirror the humiliation that would happen to Egypt.

Is making yourself naked in public a sin? My answer is like, "no but yes."


"The nakedness of your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, their nakedness you shall not uncover; for their nakedness is yours"

There are certain things in the bible that aren't spelled out as a sin but you know it's wrong. Suicide isn't specifically forbidden, but you can infer it pretty easily with no help from anybody. Nature itself teaches you not to self terminate. Exposing yourself isn't spelled out, but if the primary reason for not exposing the nakedness of your grand-daughters is that their nakedness is your own nakedness, then you are to regard exposing your own nakedness as a bad thing. A sin? Not in the sense of "Trespass against the Law", but in the same vein as "Dishonoring your head".

So unless you are engaging in extreme self humiliation because you are in deep mourning or in desperate need of humility or something, exposing yourself publicly is inappropriate. Which, self humiliation is very much the opposite of anything that Edenic Nudity encompasses. Going nude in public proudly or without shame is going against the biblical narrative of what nudity is supposed to signify.

And that, I would argue, is when it becomes sinful.
 
Slumberfreeze said:
I hold "You shall not uncover the nakedness of..." to be literal as well as a euphemism for sex.

To be naked in public is to be shamed, which scripture relies on a lot. When God told Isaiah to go three years naked, it was not so he could get back to his roots, but to humiliate him to mirror the humiliation that would happen to Egypt.

Is making yourself naked in public a sin? My answer is like, "no but yes."


"The nakedness of your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, their nakedness you shall not uncover; for their nakedness is yours"

There are certain things in the bible that aren't spelled out as a sin but you know it's wrong. Suicide isn't specifically forbidden, but you can infer it pretty easily with no help from anybody. Nature itself teaches you not to self terminate. Exposing yourself isn't spelled out, but if the primary reason for not exposing the nakedness of your grand-daughters is that their nakedness is your own nakedness, then you are to regard exposing your own nakedness as a bad thing. A sin? Not in the sense of "Trespass against the Law", but in the same vein as "Dishonoring your head".

So unless you are engaging in extreme self humiliation because you are in deep mourning or in desperate need of humility or something, exposing yourself publicly is inappropriate. Which, self humiliation is very much the opposite of anything that Edenic Nudity encompasses. Going nude in public proudly or without shame is going against the biblical narrative of what nudity is supposed to signify.

And that, I would argue, is when it becomes sinful.
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That kinda brings us back to David dancing.

Also, what about this verse? Jhn 21:7 - Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt hisfisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
That kinda brings us back to David dancing.

Also, what about this verse? Jhn 21:7 - Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt hisfisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
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You mean Peter felt awkward about his private nakedness being made public? Seems reasonable.
 
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