To be totally honest, I have yet to be even a little bit upset. I grew up listening to my adult relatives discussing doctrine, and have always loved to hear (or read) logical or well thought out beliefs stated, or debated. To someone meek and mild a roudy Italian discussion might seem like a fight. Perspective makes a difference.
When I was young I never expressed an opinion about anything (I'm sure this is hard to believe for those who know me now
) at this point in my life, I very much appreciate that what I believe is deliberate, and I know the reasons (and scripture) that supports it. If I find info that clashes, I can reevaluate easier then if I had no idea what, or where, the conflict actually is.I have seen others pose a question to the effect of "What other doctrines have you found besides polygyny, that you have found were wrong, or have had to reconsider." (Not exact paraphrase for sure) For me these doctrines (like replacement theology) and terms (like gentiles) really need to be better understood, as the current common understanding is not from scripture.
I have had many over the years insist that the church is made up of grafted in gentiles, and they are not Israel. They want to call it replacement theology, but no one claiming replacement theology has ever addressed the scriptures that support Israel being in the church, and explained them. I really don't believe it is possible. I'm sure everyone agrees we should get doctrine from the scripture, but many still use modern definitions for biblical words like Goy, (often translated gentiles) and end up back at square one calling the church gentiles, and Jews Israel. I'll admit that can be frustrating at times, because no real communication happens without a common definition of terms.
Spiritual Israel is not a biblical concept, or doctrine. You have to redefine the terms, and it causes confusion. The context of Jer. 31:31-34 Does not in any way support a different people then literal descendants of those YHWH led by the hand out of Egypt. I believe this is at least part of why YHWH prophesied that name change for His servants. Did you notice that believers in the New Testament are called the children of Abraham, not Jacob? Because Christ is THE seed, and all who believe on Him are counted as Abraham's seed and are heirs according to the promise.
But YHWH also said that the descendants of Israel will be a nation before Him forever, and that their descendants would inherit the nations. After 2000 years of intermarriage with the Israelites that followed Christ, huge numbers of people in all nations must be literal descendants of Israel now. YHWH also said in Isaiah that He would gather others to Christ, and he called them strangers.
The rest of that passage in Jeremiah that talks of all knowing Him, isnt it common Christian expression to talk of when one "met the Lord?" Forgivness of wickedness, and not remembering sins certainly fits the christian experience, so what part of that really must have a future fulfillment?
I really am not trying to make anyone change. I know that no amount of argument can do that. I only hope that people might study, and look at both sides, as there is definitely another way to understand things, and I believe it does a better job of explaining, and harmonizing the entire scripture, as well as history, current events, and other evidences.
It took me several years to untangle the Mormon doctrines I was raised with, from what the Bible actually says, and figure out how my knowledge and experience of God related to all those doctrines. YHWH was very patient, and the spirit was always there to witness to the truth. Even so it was not an easy thing to be objective about things so ingrained from childhood, or let go of what was wrong for a better understanding. I sure feel freer now, and believe my view of all denominations is less prejudiced, and more objective. (In other words, I didnt lose anything
)If no one really wishes to discuss this, they sure don't have to. But if someone is willing to, I do very much enjoy it, and often gain a better understanding from the study and interaction. I really have no ill will toward any member here, and appreciate others sharing their beliefs, and being HOT rather then wishy washy.
I'm sure my hubby would be more tactful then I, but please believe I do not write out of hostility, and do not intend to cause any harm. To use a musical analogy ....discord adds depth to music, and even harmony. Only unresolved discord is really unpleasant, or ugly.
As far as the profitability of the discussion is concerned, I don't see how any one of us, from our limited mortal perspective, could know the ultimate affect of a discussion thread. We don't know who reads it, only who participates, and even the ultimate effect on myself I wouldn't hazard to guess.
I was writing while waiting for teens to get home from a night game of frisbee. Now that they are home I had better get some sleep. Big day tomorrow turning chickens into freezer pets.
