After eight plus pages of discussing Could the USA be Mystery Babylon the Great, Should Christians leave?
I thought it might be of interest to some to look at another possibility relating to the scriptural prophetic identity of the USA.
I say possibility, but I have been reading articles arguing both sides of this "possibility" for almost 30 years, and feel this is the
only position that uses the whole of scripture, and does not do damage to any part.
Once you are willing to consider this information, you find conformation for it's truth everywhere you look. It's kind of like
Polygyny in that regard.
(examples provided upon request)
To begin with, it is helpful to have some understanding of biblical terms relating to the people discussed in scripture.
For starters, the Hebrew word goy has changed as much from the original usage, as the English word gay has in recent years,
actually more so. "Gay" men can still be happy, but Goy, translated Gentile, has changed from being often applied to Abraham, Isaac,
Jacob, and his descendants, to supposedly excluding the one it is applied to from "chosen people" status.
Look up the modern definition of gentile and it will say "Not Jewish, a person who is NOT A JEW, and people think this means NON Israelite.
But that was NEVER the Biblical use of Goy (the root word gentile is translated from). Strong's is misleading in it's definition of goy. It says,
1471 "A foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (fig.) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts. Gentile, heathen, nation, people."
Strong's concordance is a useful tool, but in the case of the word gentile translated from ethnos, it is again, somewhat correct, but misleading.
1484 "A race or tribe, spec a foreign (non Jewish) one (usually by impl. pagan) Gentile, heathen, nation, people."
Gen 48:19 alone proves Goy DOES apply to Israelites, as Ephraim, being a descendant of Jacob, could ONLY father more Israelites.
(The term Israelite means a descendant of Jacob/Israel) But, all one has to do is look at how it was used in the scriptures to confirm this
as a fact many times over! Get a concordance and look up the words nation, and nations, as many times goy was translated into one of
those two words (along with the confusing occasional use of Gentile, which has been perverted over the years to the totally new meaning).
It is an interesting fact, that in biblical times, this word never referred to an individual, but rather to large groups of people.
Some specific verses to look up are, Gen 12:2 Gen 21:13 Gen 35:11 Ex 19:6 That should be enough to prove the positive usage
of this word, FOR ISRAELITES, and should also familiarize you with a couple verses relevant to this study.
So lets look at another word relevant to all of this. How did the scriptures use the term Jew?
It was a term used post Babylonian exile, for the remnant that returned.
One must keep in mind that the only people who could have returned from Babylon (to then be called Jews) would be the people who
had gone into that captivity. All of the house of Israel, and a large part of the house of Judah had already gone into Assyrian captivity
hundreds of years before, and historians recorded that they never returned. So while it is correct to say that a gentile is from a non Jewish
tribe, it is misleading, since most people now equate Jew with Israelite, and fail to realize most Israelites were NEVER called Jews.
Again, Jew is a post Babylonian exile term for Israelites, but was ONLY applied to those Israelites who returned from Babylon.
Gentile is from the Latin gentilis, and used to mean of the same gens, clan or tribe. So rendering goy (which most accurately means nation(s) )
gentile was a way of recognizing the familial connection that existed within the group discussed.
Isaiah 54 begins with a prophesy about the restoration of the one called desolate, and is well worth reading. Verse 3 says "...and
your descendants will inherit the nations, and make the desolate cities inhabited." But it is interesting that the King James version has that translated "Inherit the gentiles" is it not?
Why does any of this matter? Well, Jesus and His apostles often quoted the scripture, as they knew prophesies would some day be fulfilled.
Paul referenced many in his writings, and related them to a group of people called gentiles. This is hugely significant, because prophesy that
was written to and about the house of Israel, could NOT be fulfilled by any other group. Here are a few of them.
Paul in Romans 2:14-15 mentions gentiles without law, showing law written on their hearts. See Jer 31:31 for who (including the cast off house
of Israel) was to have The Law written on their hearts.
Romans 9:4 he talks about his kinsman according to the flesh to whom pertains....then later in verse 24 and 25 he references Hosea and applies
that prophesy to the gentiles. Hosea 1:11 (This connects with that passage in Isaiah 54)
Look at the beginning of the epistles to see how they were addressed.
Back in Genesis when Jacob blessed Joseph's two sons, he said of Ephraim "His seed shall become a multitude of nations." a friend of ours uses
a different bible translation that rendered that "His seed shall become the fullness of the gentiles. Then you have Paul in Romans 11:25 saying
"Partial blindness has happened to Israel (then the only ones called "Israel" were the remnant of Judah) until the fullness of the gentiles has come in v26 and so (foot note says in this manner) all Israel will be saved."
Consider, if you will, the prophesy in Ezekiel about the two sticks representing the two houses of Israel, and see if what Paul is talking about isn't a
grand fulfillment of that. The cast of "gentiles" of Ephraim/Samaria/house of Israel coming together with the house of Judah and appointing themselves one head CHRIST JESUS.
You also have Ezekiel's dry bones, and while most probably missed the significance of the interpretation, "These bones are the whole house of Israel," it was the barren woman (House of Israel. Remember Isaiah 54?) who included the tribe with the birthright, who was prophesied to become a multitude of nations. It was this group saying in Eze 37:11 "Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off."
Paul in Romans 10:19 references an OT passage "I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a people." Deut 32:21 Then look at what was said about Ephraim in Isaiah 7:8 or what God said to them in Hosea 1.
Peter in 1 Pet 1:10 said that the prophets prophesied of grace that was to come to you. Who was he speaking to there? And could he be referencing
the prophesies above about Israel?
Please understand, this in no way excludes non Israelites, because the strangers were always welcome to join themselves to YHWH. (Isaiah 56:6-8)
The great commission too, tells believers to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Israel is the bride who, along with the bridegroom, is bidding all to come to the marriage in Revelation.
Isaiah twice prophesied of a new name for Israel. Once in 62:2 and I'll let you look for the other.This means that we should be looking for end time Israel to have a different name. Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."
Believers were first called Christians at Antioch.
Jesus also said to judge by fruits. He got into it on numerous occasions with people who He said were NOT His sheep. John 8:37 and John 10:26-27
If you want to understand on a deeper level why He said to judge by fruits, read the Jewish encyclopedia's content about Edom/Edomite. Could these be the wolves in sheep's clothing Jesus referred to? Descendants of the "cunning hunter" Esau?
These people repeatedly told Jesus they had Abraham to their father, But also said they were "never in bondage to any man." All of Jacob/Israel's household went down to Egypt, AND were in numerous other captivities. Paul in Galatians refused them even that title, when he wrote "If ye be Christ's, THEN are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Those who did NOT follow Christ, stayed in the synagogues. So where, in light of these words of Jesus and Paul, is the scriptural foundation/authority for calling people who deny Him, His chosen? To be clear, Messianic Jews are clearly in Christ, and some called Jews, that do not know Him yet, may be His people.
There is archeological evidence that Israel migrated up into Europe, including tombstones written in ancient Hebrew, and dated from the date of their exile. You can look at the video I've mentioned before, about the ten tribes done by Joseph Dumond of Sighted Moon Ministries, for fascinating info on the seals of those European nations, and their scriptural, tribal, Israelitish significance. A few short years after the death of Christ there were armies in Europe marching under the cross, and Rome was unable to stop the growth of Christianity.
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."
You can also look at how many times YHWH said through the prophets He was going to take them to their OWN land, and contrast that to what he said He was going to do to Jerusalem and the land He gave their Fathers in Jer 7:14.
Then you can look at any prophesy used to validate the old land over there, now called Israel, and see if there isn't a much grander fulfillment right here in the USA.
Where else is the nation and company of nations that was prophesied to come from Jacob? (Gen 35:11)
We became a nation in a day too, when we declared our independence from England July 4th 1776.
Then look at the description of the land invaded by Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38 there are many markers there that can NEVER apply to that nation over there, that fit us to a tee!
Finally, even if you want to believe that all of those biblical "gentiles" were NOT Israelites, what do you think happened to the descendants of all those Israelite followers of Jesus, who have been called Christians since Antioch?????
I realize this is a lot for a first post, and this is only the tip of the iceberg, as this is a large subject, with many facets of miss-information to address.
Please do consider this information before replying, as it is nice for others reading if the posts are relevant without unneeded repetition.
Oh and by the way, this position also explains our present connection to Mystery Babylon the Great, as it is prophesied that ISRAEL was to go into Babylonian captivity in end times, Micah 4:10. We are there now, and the good news is deliverance is prophesied too!
Disclaimer. The faithfulness of God is a big reason for the hope that I have for the future. This to me is evidence of His faithfulness. This post is intended only to share that hope, and vision.
I thought it might be of interest to some to look at another possibility relating to the scriptural prophetic identity of the USA.
I say possibility, but I have been reading articles arguing both sides of this "possibility" for almost 30 years, and feel this is the
only position that uses the whole of scripture, and does not do damage to any part.
Once you are willing to consider this information, you find conformation for it's truth everywhere you look. It's kind of like
Polygyny in that regard.
(examples provided upon request) To begin with, it is helpful to have some understanding of biblical terms relating to the people discussed in scripture.
For starters, the Hebrew word goy has changed as much from the original usage, as the English word gay has in recent years,
actually more so. "Gay" men can still be happy, but Goy, translated Gentile, has changed from being often applied to Abraham, Isaac,
Jacob, and his descendants, to supposedly excluding the one it is applied to from "chosen people" status.
Look up the modern definition of gentile and it will say "Not Jewish, a person who is NOT A JEW, and people think this means NON Israelite.
But that was NEVER the Biblical use of Goy (the root word gentile is translated from). Strong's is misleading in it's definition of goy. It says,
1471 "A foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (fig.) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts. Gentile, heathen, nation, people."
Strong's concordance is a useful tool, but in the case of the word gentile translated from ethnos, it is again, somewhat correct, but misleading.
1484 "A race or tribe, spec a foreign (non Jewish) one (usually by impl. pagan) Gentile, heathen, nation, people."
Gen 48:19 alone proves Goy DOES apply to Israelites, as Ephraim, being a descendant of Jacob, could ONLY father more Israelites.
(The term Israelite means a descendant of Jacob/Israel) But, all one has to do is look at how it was used in the scriptures to confirm this
as a fact many times over! Get a concordance and look up the words nation, and nations, as many times goy was translated into one of
those two words (along with the confusing occasional use of Gentile, which has been perverted over the years to the totally new meaning).
It is an interesting fact, that in biblical times, this word never referred to an individual, but rather to large groups of people.
Some specific verses to look up are, Gen 12:2 Gen 21:13 Gen 35:11 Ex 19:6 That should be enough to prove the positive usage
of this word, FOR ISRAELITES, and should also familiarize you with a couple verses relevant to this study.
So lets look at another word relevant to all of this. How did the scriptures use the term Jew?
It was a term used post Babylonian exile, for the remnant that returned.
One must keep in mind that the only people who could have returned from Babylon (to then be called Jews) would be the people who
had gone into that captivity. All of the house of Israel, and a large part of the house of Judah had already gone into Assyrian captivity
hundreds of years before, and historians recorded that they never returned. So while it is correct to say that a gentile is from a non Jewish
tribe, it is misleading, since most people now equate Jew with Israelite, and fail to realize most Israelites were NEVER called Jews.
Again, Jew is a post Babylonian exile term for Israelites, but was ONLY applied to those Israelites who returned from Babylon.
Gentile is from the Latin gentilis, and used to mean of the same gens, clan or tribe. So rendering goy (which most accurately means nation(s) )
gentile was a way of recognizing the familial connection that existed within the group discussed.
Isaiah 54 begins with a prophesy about the restoration of the one called desolate, and is well worth reading. Verse 3 says "...and
your descendants will inherit the nations, and make the desolate cities inhabited." But it is interesting that the King James version has that translated "Inherit the gentiles" is it not?
Why does any of this matter? Well, Jesus and His apostles often quoted the scripture, as they knew prophesies would some day be fulfilled.
Paul referenced many in his writings, and related them to a group of people called gentiles. This is hugely significant, because prophesy that
was written to and about the house of Israel, could NOT be fulfilled by any other group. Here are a few of them.
Paul in Romans 2:14-15 mentions gentiles without law, showing law written on their hearts. See Jer 31:31 for who (including the cast off house
of Israel) was to have The Law written on their hearts.
Romans 9:4 he talks about his kinsman according to the flesh to whom pertains....then later in verse 24 and 25 he references Hosea and applies
that prophesy to the gentiles. Hosea 1:11 (This connects with that passage in Isaiah 54)
Look at the beginning of the epistles to see how they were addressed.
Back in Genesis when Jacob blessed Joseph's two sons, he said of Ephraim "His seed shall become a multitude of nations." a friend of ours uses
a different bible translation that rendered that "His seed shall become the fullness of the gentiles. Then you have Paul in Romans 11:25 saying
"Partial blindness has happened to Israel (then the only ones called "Israel" were the remnant of Judah) until the fullness of the gentiles has come in v26 and so (foot note says in this manner) all Israel will be saved."
Consider, if you will, the prophesy in Ezekiel about the two sticks representing the two houses of Israel, and see if what Paul is talking about isn't a
grand fulfillment of that. The cast of "gentiles" of Ephraim/Samaria/house of Israel coming together with the house of Judah and appointing themselves one head CHRIST JESUS.
You also have Ezekiel's dry bones, and while most probably missed the significance of the interpretation, "These bones are the whole house of Israel," it was the barren woman (House of Israel. Remember Isaiah 54?) who included the tribe with the birthright, who was prophesied to become a multitude of nations. It was this group saying in Eze 37:11 "Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off."
Paul in Romans 10:19 references an OT passage "I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a people." Deut 32:21 Then look at what was said about Ephraim in Isaiah 7:8 or what God said to them in Hosea 1.
Peter in 1 Pet 1:10 said that the prophets prophesied of grace that was to come to you. Who was he speaking to there? And could he be referencing
the prophesies above about Israel?
Please understand, this in no way excludes non Israelites, because the strangers were always welcome to join themselves to YHWH. (Isaiah 56:6-8)
The great commission too, tells believers to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Israel is the bride who, along with the bridegroom, is bidding all to come to the marriage in Revelation.
Isaiah twice prophesied of a new name for Israel. Once in 62:2 and I'll let you look for the other.
This means that we should be looking for end time Israel to have a different name. Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." Believers were first called Christians at Antioch.
Jesus also said to judge by fruits. He got into it on numerous occasions with people who He said were NOT His sheep. John 8:37 and John 10:26-27
If you want to understand on a deeper level why He said to judge by fruits, read the Jewish encyclopedia's content about Edom/Edomite. Could these be the wolves in sheep's clothing Jesus referred to? Descendants of the "cunning hunter" Esau?
These people repeatedly told Jesus they had Abraham to their father, But also said they were "never in bondage to any man." All of Jacob/Israel's household went down to Egypt, AND were in numerous other captivities. Paul in Galatians refused them even that title, when he wrote "If ye be Christ's, THEN are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Those who did NOT follow Christ, stayed in the synagogues. So where, in light of these words of Jesus and Paul, is the scriptural foundation/authority for calling people who deny Him, His chosen? To be clear, Messianic Jews are clearly in Christ, and some called Jews, that do not know Him yet, may be His people.
There is archeological evidence that Israel migrated up into Europe, including tombstones written in ancient Hebrew, and dated from the date of their exile. You can look at the video I've mentioned before, about the ten tribes done by Joseph Dumond of Sighted Moon Ministries, for fascinating info on the seals of those European nations, and their scriptural, tribal, Israelitish significance. A few short years after the death of Christ there were armies in Europe marching under the cross, and Rome was unable to stop the growth of Christianity.
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."
You can also look at how many times YHWH said through the prophets He was going to take them to their OWN land, and contrast that to what he said He was going to do to Jerusalem and the land He gave their Fathers in Jer 7:14.
Then you can look at any prophesy used to validate the old land over there, now called Israel, and see if there isn't a much grander fulfillment right here in the USA.
Where else is the nation and company of nations that was prophesied to come from Jacob? (Gen 35:11)
We became a nation in a day too, when we declared our independence from England July 4th 1776.
Then look at the description of the land invaded by Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38 there are many markers there that can NEVER apply to that nation over there, that fit us to a tee!
Finally, even if you want to believe that all of those biblical "gentiles" were NOT Israelites, what do you think happened to the descendants of all those Israelite followers of Jesus, who have been called Christians since Antioch?????
I realize this is a lot for a first post, and this is only the tip of the iceberg, as this is a large subject, with many facets of miss-information to address.
Please do consider this information before replying, as it is nice for others reading if the posts are relevant without unneeded repetition.
Oh and by the way, this position also explains our present connection to Mystery Babylon the Great, as it is prophesied that ISRAEL was to go into Babylonian captivity in end times, Micah 4:10. We are there now, and the good news is deliverance is prophesied too!
Disclaimer. The faithfulness of God is a big reason for the hope that I have for the future. This to me is evidence of His faithfulness. This post is intended only to share that hope, and vision.
