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Closed vs open system.

steve

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Male
Ali and I were having a discussion this am and some things coalesced for us.
She is used to what I will call a closed system, church or whatever, in which voices which didn’t show the proper respect or that expressed questionable beliefs were confronted. This has bothered her about the forums because at times it just doesn’t seem like there is enough pushback against some of the more sour/negative opinions. That there is less policing than she would prefer.
What I realized is that the online forums are more of an open system, whereas the retreats are conducted differently. They are more of a closed system where people are actually more on their better behavior, less combative and more focused on fellowship.
The forums are more of a freewheeling sharing of ideas and opinions.

Does this make sense to anybody else?
 
Totally. Which is why it's difficult for me to really believe in the concept of a true 'online' fellowship. Even if we use our real faces and names in the forum, we're really only abstractions based on our real selves.
Well said.
Can we accept it for what it is and not expect it to be what it isn’t?
 
Well said.
Can we accept it for what it is and not expect it to be what it isn’t?
Yes, to a point. Even as an open, or 'outreach' system that can be accessed by the world, we still have to maintain a certain level of order and basic parameters of doctrine/acceptable beliefs. So, I would argue that we are not totally 'open' but certainly a broader range of ideas and people are allowed/accepted within the extended boundaries.

That being said, I think we all guard the perimeter to the limits of personal comfort.
 
How so, Steve? What's on your mind?
Simply what you said, basically that the fellowship online will naturally be more limited than the fellowship in person.

Truly deep fellowship at the retreats will not exist without drawing from the baseline fellowship that we build on the forums.
Or to state it differently, the retreats don’t happen without the forum community. And the forum relationships will never replace the retreats.
 
Yes, to a point. Even as an open, or 'outreach' system that can be accessed by the world, we still have to maintain a certain level of order and basic parameters of doctrine/acceptable beliefs. So, I would argue that we are not totally 'open' but certainly a broader range of ideas and people are allowed/accepted within the extended boundaries.

That being said, I think we all guard the perimeter to the limits of personal comfort.
Indubitably!
 
Men doing their iron sharpens iron thing necessitates the character of the open system. This is different from a situation where the body gathers together.

This is also a place of outreach to those who may not agree with poly, may not be very good Christians or are struggling with the ideas. That necessitates more of an open system.

I came here because I wasn't fully settled on polygamy for me today. To get any use of this forum it had to be a place where I'd be challenged on my opinion.
 
Men doing their iron sharpens iron thing necessitates the character of the open system. This is different from a situation where the body gathers together.

This is also a place of outreach to those who may not agree with poly, may not be very good Christians or are struggling with the ideas. That necessitates more of an open system.

I came here because I wasn't fully settled on polygamy for me today. To get any use of this forum it had to be a place where I'd be challenged on my opinion.
Triple Like.
 
Hmm.

I don't want us all to expend a great deal of energy worrying about how we come across to those who don't already have a heart for polygamy, but I also don't know about heading toward what you're distinguishing as a more 'open' platform. If one wants that, might I suggest going to Twitter?

I also believe the forums are far more dependent on the retreats than the retreats are dependent on the forums. Face-to-face (the meetspace of meatspace, to paraphrase a recent discussion involving @andrew), to me, is automatically more valuable than IP-to-IP.

I vote for implementing loving everyone with whom one associates not only at the retreats but online as well. Ali's point is spot on. Being disrespectful, demeaning or diminishing does not stimulate edifying debate; it only inhibits it. My observation is that shutting up others is usually the whole point of making personal attacks.
 
This is my first thought, and it may change over time, but it seems as though the more raucous interaction online is more or less what happens when we get to know people after a while. There is no guard to out up and we let our hair down. It's like being around friends and family in tight quarters. Even the most loving of folks get on each other's nerves after a while (just ask a bunch of Jews wandering around the wilderness for 40 years). Is some of it false bravado? I'm sure it is.

I've only attended one retreat, but even if there were two or three a year, I'm thinking that the true nature of folks wouldn't come out in that abbreviated time. Something about a face to face automatically freezes up part of our person and makes us go into a different mode.

I think a more brusk and confrontational style has its place, but infrequently and only with definite purpose.

I'm open to other thoughts.
 
I've only attended one retreat, but even if there were two or three a year, I'm thinking that the true nature of folks wouldn't come out in that abbreviated time. Something about a face to face automatically freezes up part of our person and makes us go into a different mode.
I’m in it for the fellowship AND for getting that iron sharpened, so I’m happy with both systems.
My purpose with this thread is to point out that both exist so that people can adjust to that reality.
 
Personally, I like to mix it up in iron sharpening sessions, but even then I try to measure my tone so the messenger isn't the offender...

Text simply doesn't convey some emotion very well...
 
Even the most loving of folks get on each other's nerves after a while (just ask a bunch of Jews wandering around the wilderness for 40 years).
Hmm, I only know of one group that wandered for forty years in the wilderness. And if I calculate this right, they’re a little hard to get in touch with. Maybe they just have their phone off the hook. :)
 
just ask a bunch of Jews wandering around the wilderness for 40 years
I have it on authority they weren't all Jews... :D
 
I have it on authority they weren't all Jews... :D
Ahhhhhh. It's so nice when someone else realizes this.
(To explain for others.....Jew is a post Babylon term applied to exiles of the House of Judah that returned....Abraham was never called a Jew in his life....neither were a lot of his posterity)
 
Getting technical, huh?
Israelites?
Hebrews?

and a smattering of Egyptians and other nations?

Did I miss anything?
 
I’m in it for the fellowship AND for getting that iron sharpened, so I’m happy with both systems.

This . . .

Personally, I like to mix it up in iron sharpening sessions, but even then I try to measure my tone so the messenger isn't the offender...

. . . and That!

Amen, brothers!
 
voices which didn’t show the proper respect or that expressed questionable beliefs were confronted. This has bothered her about the forums because at times it just doesn’t seem like there is enough pushback against some of the more sour/negative opinions. That there is less policing than she would prefer
This is interesting to me. I used to be a member of the other poly forum that closed down because they had a "personal adds" section and the laws changed. That place was so relaxed about moderation that some got banned for openly criticizing the owners and making comments about what they "allowed" on their site that was supposed to be Christian. Now I'm sure the moderators here know how fast content can pile up. Even with several mods active on the forum you could miss something. That other site (if I am right) had an owner that was barely involved and a busy plural wife/mom/grandma that tried to help, maybe there were others.
I reported one man once that was very inappropriate and I never even knew if they read my message about that user, so after a few days I posted in his threads warning others that his conduct was inconsistent with his claimed faith.
I appreciate that biblical families wants to keep this site edifying and helpful for those seeking info and needing support.
I appreciate the degree of moderation they provide.
I might LOVE to debate controversial subjects, but I need to remember that this site is not here for that.

Doctrine does matter, and it is a divisive matter at times. That said I think it is WORSE and far more divisive when a group wants to make hard rules where our maker did not, so I appreciate the moderate degree of moderation too. (Try saying that last line three times fast! Lol)

I think the diversity in perspectives here is a huge plus. I LOVE the Apostles Creed, it's simply perfect! I also appreciate the sour and negative being allowed to exist as well, because we are all human, and I would rather see real then whitewashed and artificial.

I've only been to two hotel retreats. I'm really looking forward to the one in a few days!
 
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