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City vs Homestead

Communication

Communication

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Male
This observation may not actually be correct, but many of you seem to be skewing much more rural. Is this a conscious choice? It seems like it might be a little more safe to not be a city slicker if society collapses, but I'm not sure that is a reason for the salt of the world to not be present in the belly of the beast.
Of course it comes down to following our own individual conscience, probably, so I'm not asking anyone to judge me, per se, just curious what thoughts are out there.
I will admit there is a spiritual toll in being surrounded (I am in a large city) by so many people who live in such godless fear. Actually been turned away from some church services for not having PoV.
Disconcerting to see Tim Keller and Francis head-of-NIH talking about Jesus and coronavirus. Oh, and that Piper guy. And Golihger at Tenth Philly coined the phrase "wearing a mask for Jesus" from the pulpit.
 
Good question.

My preference tends towards the rural and homesteading side, though I actually live in a large town which has a more suburban feel. On our (wife and I) third of an acre house lot, we grow a huge vegetable garden, raise chickens, and grow our own fruit.

I'm pretty familiar with Keller and Piper, having listened to probably a couple dozen sermons by Keller, and well over a hundred by Piper. I've benefitted greatly from Piper's ministry in particular (though I also have significant disagreements with both Piper and Keller).

I'm pretty familiar with their thoughts on urban Christianity. I've also listened to other prominent urban Christian leaders such as Mark Dever, Mark Driscoll (pre-collapse), and Aaron Ren.

Here are some of my thoughts.

Many (probably most) urban Christians are in the big city because it is fun, hip, and potentially offers the opportunity for upward professional/financial mobility. They are also perhaps a bit embarrassed by the "backward and uneducated believers" in flyover country.

They may enjoy the anonymity of the city. The foodies love the authentic sushi, taquerias, Korean BBQ, hot pot restaurants etc (I know I do).

God really does call some people to be salt and light in the city, but others simply crave the city life for their own reasons, and try to justify it with "seek the prosperity of the city" talk.

I think it is more difficult to live a godly life in the city, and most Christians find themselves compromising with the values of the city rather than truly shining as lights. Compare Abraham and Lot. The city influences most believers more than they influence the city.

That said, the truly God fearing man in the city may have a greater impact. Look at Daniel, and Mordecai.

God created man in a garden, but our final goal is the new Jerusalem (a city).

One of my main concerns about city life is the fact that it usually separates people from the land (the biological world), family and community connections.

People need to be around green plants, and people should also be around livestock. I know I want that. Even as an apartment dwelling graduate student twenty years ago, I still ALWAYS had a vegetable garden (at our apartment and the University community garden). It helped satisfy a deep longing in my spirit, and it provided us with high quality and economical food.

If you have to live in a city, at least grows some herbs and vegetables.

One very good documentary on urban gardening is entitled "Can you dig this?", I strongly recommend it (warning, it does contain cussing).

For what it is worth polygyny also seems more feasible in the country.
 
You might have want to ruminate for a bit on the story of Lot.

Then consider how much time Yeshua spent in Jerusalem.
 
Bartato said:
Here is the trailer for "Can you dig this?".

Click to expand...
On my watch list.
Your other post was very generous, I just didn't reply so the quote wouldn't be so long.
Your saying that urban Christians can characterize their non-urban brothers as:
"backward and uneducated believers" in flyover country
is sad but I admit that characterization exists. And it exists much more in pride than in truth. To the extent that it exists in truth, ie demographics on education or income, it still has no basis in the sense that God chooses the foolish things of this world to shame the learned/educated/sophisticated.
The point you made that hit home the most is basically the idea that there is this tension between the environment changing me, vs. me changing the environment. My hope is that my family can enjoy the city, but as God wants us to. I feel I need to prepare for a scenario where I will readily obey God if I come to understand that he is calling me away from the pleasures/benefits of the city to submit to a quieter life that probably involves many more sore muscles.
 
Communication said:
It seems like it might be a little more safe to not be a city slicker if society collapses, but I'm not sure that is a reason for the salt of the world to not be present in the belly of the beast.
Click to expand...

I currently live a quarter mile outside the currently-fastest-growing city in America and within the 3rd largest metropolitan area in the country by population, but I would prefer to live rural, and our current pathway is saving money for land in the outskirts of the Texas Hill Country.

Something to remember, though: some years back I did research by buying multiple books on advice about what to do in the event of a SHTF event, written mostly by former special services officers who had gone on to work as the equivalent of mercenary soldiers all across the globe, and every one had been present for SHTF events related to countries imploding. Their message was clear: there is no place where one can live that will be safe in the long run. Out in the rural areas, the danger isn't immediate, but once the cities are plundered, the survivors fan out in all directions to continue their rape and plunder. Specifically, almost all of them warned against amassing large quantities of food stores, because wandering groups of marauders won't hesitate to execute and kill you and everyone in your family for that food after first raping any female over the age of 6 or 7. One suggested that the only successful strategy is to build an actual stone fort around your community and amass even more ammunition than food, but the United States has a history of destroying or dismantling any effort to construct such a fortress unless it's for someone in the protected ruling classes.
 
Keith Martin said:
Specifically, almost all of them warned against amassing large quantities of food stores, because wandering groups of marauders won't hesitate to execute and kill you and everyone in your family for that food after first raping any female over the age of 6 or 7.
Click to expand...
One solution to that one - plant tonnes (and I mean tonnes) of Jerusalem artichokes (not globe artichokes, very different, look them up). They're a root crop (actually a tuber). Almost nobody recognises the above-ground plant as food, but they're even higher yielding than potatoes. What's even better, they outgrow grass, once planted they're an invasive weed that's almost impossible to eradicate. And they can be eaten raw or cooked, unlike potatoes - more like carrots. The only disadvantage is that many people dislike the taste - but they're not repulsive, just bland, not people's preference.

Then when the marauding mobs come, you can give them everything in your larder to appease them, and show them it's bare. When they leave, get out a spade and dig up your real food stores.

Plant them once and forget them for years. They'll just keep growing there as weeds until you need them. Great idea for roadsides too...
 
FollowingHim2 said:
The only disadvantage?!
Go on, tell the truth...
Click to expand...
Can't wait to hear the rest of this, @FollowingHim, but I'll start with one other disadvantage: life is not sustainable when one makes as one primary food source something that only provides a small range of what is necessary to sustain one's immune system, much less provide balanced fuel.

And I didn't want to do a whole set of book reports on what I learned, but if you're hoping to survive just by giving up your pantry food, guess again. You better be prepared to either shoot them all dead or give up every piece of ammunition and artillery you have and then watch as your wife and daughter are raped -- and then they'll possibly let you live. You'd be better off hiding in the woods with your guns from a protected vantage point while you watched them ransack your house.

But I forgot: you live in New Zealand; are you permitted to own firearms or possess life-protecting quantities of ammunition?
 
FollowingHim said:
One solution to that one - plant tonnes (and I mean tonnes) of Jerusalem artichokes (not globe artichokes, very different, look them up). They're a root crop (actually a tuber). Almost nobody recognises the above-ground plant as food, but they're even higher yielding than potatoes. What's even better, they outgrow grass, once planted they're an invasive weed that's almost impossible to eradicate. And they can be eaten raw or cooked, unlike potatoes - more like carrots. The only disadvantage is that many people dislike the taste - but they're not repulsive, just bland, not people's preference.

Then when the marauding mobs come, you can give them everything in your larder to appease them, and show them it's bare. When they leave, get out a spade and dig up your real food stores.

Plant them once and forget them for years. They'll just keep growing there as weeds until you need them. Great idea for roadsides too...
Click to expand...
I've not eaten Jerusalem artichokes, but I did make the terrible mistake of growing them once about eight years ago. I'm still working at eradicating those monsters (and so is my neighbor, thanks to me).
 
Keith Martin said:
I currently live a quarter mile outside the currently-fastest-growing city in America and within the 3rd largest metropolitan area in the country by population, but I would prefer to live rural, and our current pathway is saving money for land in the outskirts of the Texas Hill Country.

Something to remember, though: some years back I did research by buying multiple books on advice about what to do in the event of a SHTF event, written mostly by former special services officers who had gone on to work as the equivalent of mercenary soldiers all across the globe, and every one had been present for SHTF events related to countries imploding. Their message was clear: there is no place where one can live that will be safe in the long run. Out in the rural areas, the danger isn't immediate, but once the cities are plundered, the survivors fan out in all directions to continue their rape and plunder. Specifically, almost all of them warned against amassing large quantities of food stores, because wandering groups of marauders won't hesitate to execute and kill you and everyone in your family for that food after first raping any female over the age of 6 or 7. One suggested that the only successful strategy is to build an actual stone fort around your community and amass even more ammunition than food, but the United States has a history of destroying or dismantling any effort to construct such a fortress unless it's for someone in the protected ruling classes.
Click to expand...
We don't want to live our lives in fear of "Mad Max" scenarios. On the other hand, I do have a lot of guns, ammo, and food storage, and certainly would not want to be in a big city when times get really difficult.

Also what does "life saving quantities of ammo"mean? Is it the five rounds of .38sp in the revolver in my pocket? Is it also the thousands of rounds of 5.56, and 7.62*39 which may be in someone's basement?
 
Bartato said:
We don't want to live our lives in fear of "Mad Max" scenarios. On the other hand, I do have a lot of guns, ammo, and food storage, and certainly would not want to be in a big city when times get really difficult.

Also what does "life saving quantities of ammo"mean? Is it the five rounds of .38sp in the revolver in my pocket? Is it also the thousands of rounds of 5.56, and 7.62*39 which may be in someone's basement?
Click to expand...
Amen
Psalm 127:1 (KJV)
[[A Song of degrees for Solomon.]] Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh [but] in vain.
I believe in storing up food and being able to defend it, but the ultimate defense is provided by Yah. Marauding rioters can be blinded by Him and pass you by, if He so chooses.
It’s not an all-or-nothing deal.
 
My preparation only extends to the point at which it risks overwhelming being able to appreciate my life in the present. In other words, keeping it in perspective, but part of how I do that is to keep my eyes wide open to possibilities both negative and positive. I wholeheartedly agree, @steve, that the ultimate defense is provided by Yah, but failing to observe the admonition that the LORD helps those who help themselves could leave me guilty of the hubris of assuming that Yah intends to rescue me and my loved ones from calamities I refused to prepare for or even imagine. Solomon wasn't admonishing us to refrain from building a house but instead to ensure that Yah lives within it.
 
Bartato said:
We don't want to live our lives in fear of "Mad Max" scenarios. On the other hand, I do have a lot of guns, ammo, and food storage, and certainly would not want to be in a big city when times get really difficult.

Also what does "life saving quantities of ammo"mean? Is it the five rounds of .38sp in the revolver in my pocket? Is it also the thousands of rounds of 5.56, and 7.62*39 which may be in someone's basement?
Click to expand...
I agree. This thinking mirrors my struggle with, and consolation from, Psalm 131 which says something like "I do not let myself become overly concerned with things to great or too difficult for me. Instead I have quieted and calmed myself like a little weaned child with its mother."
I could always imagine some additional way to prepare for some hypothetical scenario. In my current situation, there are a few which I can prepare for, and so I have tried to address those. But then I have to find the discipline to submit to the wisdom of knowing where I really need to just stop and leave the rest to the Lord (until he calls me back to action). If I focus too much on my families hypothetical needs by addressing too many possible futures, I can sometimes neglect the daily duties of husband and father.
 
FollowingHim2 said:
The only disadvantage?!
Go on, tell the truth...
Click to expand...
Oh, they also make you fart a lot - when you're not used to them. They have inulin instead of starch, so when your guts are used to processing starch they have the wrong bacterial population to efficiently process inulin, so gas is produced. However, that is a temporary problem - when consumed long-term the bacterial population changes to process it properly, and the flatulence ceases (in theory, we have not personally tested long-term consumption, but that is very sound biology).

So yes, when you're just trying them out, this is a disadvantage. But it shouldn't be an issue in a survival situation where you're using them as a staple food source, which is why I didn't bother mentioning it.

Of course, Sarah finds my short-term-artichoke-consumption-flatulence traumatic enough that it was the first thing she thought of... :)
 
Keith Martin said:
the LORD helps those who help themselves
Click to expand...
That is not a scriptural quote, it comes from ancient Greek paganism, the correct quote being "the gods help those who help themselves".

It can be a motivational principle, but it is not Christian. Biblically, everything we have belongs to God, and we only have it because He has already helped us, by giving it to us. So when we "help ourselves", we are actually only using the things God has already given to us (e.g. our mind and resources) - so even that is simply accepting His help. Think about the parable of the talents. If we prove ourselves worthy stewards of the help and resources he has already given us, He may give us more. So we are not helping ourselves anyway, just working alongside Him.

The aim should be to work with Him effectively, not think we have to do it ourselves.
Keith Martin said:
if you're hoping to survive just by giving up your pantry food, guess again
Click to expand...
There are many, many aspects to survival. I would equally say "if you're hoping to survive just by shooting all the looters, guess again". For instance, the best way to stop your neighbour feeling a need to steal your food is not to shoot him, but to help feed him so he's not hungry in the first place. You can't solve everything with a few plants - but I thought that idea might be useful for some people. Making your food disguised is a very good way to prevent it being stolen. Doesn't necessarily stop your daughter being raped of course, that's what your well-fed and friendly neighbour and you standing together with those guns you mentioned are for...
 
Now if the gas could be captured to be used in the cooking process…….
 
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