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Can childbirth and childrearing improve charecter?

D

DiscussingTheTopic

Member
Male
So I was in the park and people were walking with a dog so I stood still. And it ran up to me might have smelled me (or might not have it was so quick) and immediately went past me and waited at the other end of the bridge for it's owner instead of running off.

So I felt the dog was one of the best behaved dogs I have ever seen, it did not hover around someone, bark, put it's paws on someone, run past the wrong place, etc.

So I said something like "The dog is really well behaved how did you train it?"

They demonstrated that it would obey their verbal commands and

they said they did not train it they were given it after it gave birth to 40 dogs throughout it's lifetime the owner kept one puppy for breeding and gave the dog away after they made money selling puppies. All the dog ever did was nurse babies and it could never go around the park like this before and we spayed it. (they thought the dog was better off now that it was spayed.)

But.... how come the dog was so much better behaved since it took care of puppies than all the spayed dogs? It obviously did the dog a lot of good to be a _____ and produce more dogs as can be seen by it's well behavior. (I did not tell them that because I knew they might get really angry.)

Do you think that the allegory of this (literal event) that human society could become a better place through the learning process of learning to love through motherhood is effectively true in general?
 
Should it...yes...does it...not always. I have personally known women who should have never given birth. They toss their children away like yesterday's newspaper:( Has it made ME a better person...yes it has:) Without my children I would NOT be the person I am today...I am a better person because of them!


Shannon mom to 5:)
 
I'm not sure that the dog was a better dog due to birthing so many puppies (that's a whole other topic that I shouldn't even start since I'm fully against breeding), but rather that it's quality of life wasn't so great. These people took the spiritually wounded dog, gave it love, attention, exercise, and guidance, and voila, she was a good dog that appreciated her new life. My dogs had the (sorta) same thing happen. One came from the pound and was an awful dog and I really disliked her while her leg was broken and she could not have a good quality of life. She healed, got to run and plan, and is now the best dog I've ever had. My other dog came from a house of 7 dogs and was neglected. She was terrified of people and a psycho really. I gave her all of the above needs, and she is now the sweetest dog that loves all. My point is, do this to a person, a dog, a horse, and you get results. If the quality of life changes, so does the person. I think motherhood can make or break a person depending on how they were raised as children. Some women come from a bad background and swear to themselves and God that they will be different and be the best mothers they can be (like myself). Others come from the same background and end up abusing (or neglecting, etc.) their children because they did break that cycle. If you change the quality of life for someone or something to make it better, chances are, the person will become better as well.

Dogs appreciate life far more than a lot of people do when they come from bad situations, however, dogs are a lot more content with less. :)
 
livenotyesterday said:
I'm not sure that the dog was a better dog due to birthing so many puppies (that's a whole other topic that I shouldn't even start since I'm fully against breeding),
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By breeding do you mean breeding non-human animals or that you think humans should not have children either?
 
I am FOR humans have babies! haha! I want babies. But I don't think all people should have babies, but I'm not trying to regulate them. Dogs, cats, etc. are over populated and live in over-crowded shelters and a lot of them don't have a good life to say the least. My dogs have a grand life, but I would never breed them.

I would go against my entire life if I said humans should breed!
 
Breeding animals is a huge topic. There are people who breed animals just to make money. There are puppy mills which promote low-quality pups from parents that are too closely related, just to turn a profit. There are people who allow their animals to breed irresponsibly. I believe that is what miss Tara is against. Go to any local animal shelter and see the poor animals that have been abandoned or treated badly. There are so many of them in shelters, that some people (myself included) feel that it is wrong to purchase a dog. I rescued my dogs from a family who had left them in the backyard and couldn't care for them.

I doubt that anyone is against animals having babies. If no animals had babies, then in a few short years there would be no more pets. But since animals have many litters throughout their lives, overpopulation happens very quickly. I have a friend in Reno who actively works with the feral cat population, catching them, taking them to a spay/neuter clinic and then re-releasing them. I have known her for 6 years and she has been doing this weekly for all the time I have known her. The cats keep coming, but she has managed to keep many unwanted cats from being born. And she has adopted many of the cats into her home.

SweetLissa
 
Humans should have babies (responsibly) and animals shouldn't be able to breed irresponsibly. Lissa explained my opinion perfectly. I think I did a typo when I said I didn't believe humans should have babies. Oops! Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
sweetlissa said:
There are people who breed animals just to make money.
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Maybe you didn't mean this as a bad thing even though that is how I read it.
It'd sure be tough to make a living selling beef / hogs if we didn't breed them just to make money. For that matter, it'd be tough to find my favorite foods if someone wasn't breeding them just to sell for money!

That probably isn't what you meant anyway, it just struck me as silly when I read it.

-rubicon
 
rubicon said:
sweetlissa said:
There are people who breed animals just to make money.
Click to expand...

Maybe you didn't mean this as a bad thing even though that is how I read it.
It'd sure be tough to make a living selling beef / hogs if we didn't breed them just to make money. For that matter, it'd be tough to find my favorite foods if someone wasn't breeding them just to sell for money!

That probably isn't what you meant anyway, it just struck me as silly when I read it.

-rubicon
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Pets, not livestock. In the purebred pet industry lots of animals are mated to close relatives thereby increasing the risk of genetic problems that certain breeds have, for example, Dalmatians are often deaf and King Charles Spaniels have Mitral valve disease and syringomyelia. The more 'pure' the dog is, the more likely the dog is to be bred from and the more likely they are to have diseases and be a weaker species in general.

B
 
Isabella said:
rubicon said:
sweetlissa said:
There are people who breed animals just to make money.
Click to expand...

Maybe you didn't mean this as a bad thing even though that is how I read it.
It'd sure be tough to make a living selling beef / hogs if we didn't breed them just to make money. For that matter, it'd be tough to find my favorite foods if someone wasn't breeding them just to sell for money!

That probably isn't what you meant anyway, it just struck me as silly when I read it.

-rubicon
Click to expand...

Pets, not livestock. In the purebred pet industry lots of animals are mated to close relatives thereby increasing the risk of genetic problems that certain breeds have, for example, Dalmatians are often deaf and King Charles Spaniels have Mitral valve disease and syringomyelia. The more 'pure' the dog is, the more likely the dog is to be bred from and the more likely they are to have diseases and be a weaker species in general.

B
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That is why it is really awesome to marry someone from another nationality. Some people's parents are really strict and only want them to marry from their own nationality, but as we can see...
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
That is why it is really awesome to marry someone from another nationality. Some people's parents are really strict and only want them to marry from their own nationality, but as we can see...
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It is better genetically yes, but one doesn't need to go as far as another nation just any group which has been separated from your group for any significant length of time. Just avoid marrying anyone with to close a commonly shared ancestor and it will be fine.

B
 
Isabella said:
DiscussingTheTopic said:
That is why it is really awesome to marry someone from another nationality. Some people's parents are really strict and only want them to marry from their own nationality, but as we can see...
Click to expand...

It is better genetically yes, but one doesn't need to go as far as another nation just any group which has been separated from your group for any significant length of time. Just avoid marrying anyone with to close a commonly shared ancestor and it will be fine.

B
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It also helps avoid thinking errors that copy when people......

That is why it is really good to marry someone from a different culture so your children do not copy the thinking errors that are wrong in either of your cultures, but can choose the best way of thinking among the two different cultures available, that is among both the father's and mother's culture again that makes it good to marry someone from another nationality.
 
I am sorry, I do not know what you mean by thinking errors?

B
 
I tend to disagree with having to marry outside of your culture/nationality/race so your kids can be healthier or think healthier (?). I understand that people can learn alot from different cultures but there are also lots of difficulties and conflicts that have to be worked through when you marry someone of a very different culture with lots of different customs. Some sensitive children who are born to you may feel torn as to which parent's culture to be loyal to. The parents may have vastly different expectations as to child rearing. If you marry someone from your culture who shares your values (not only those of chrsitianity but also your social habits/values) then many of the questions about how you will conduct your lives are not really a question. I know the verse about being "unequally yoked" deos not refer to nation/culture/race but believer/non-believer associations yet I can't help thinking that it applies also as good advice in this area.
Also the health benefits for human children who are of parents of vastly different races has not been proven scientifically yet. There is evidence that these kids have a harder time finding bone marrow and organ donor matches when they need them because their genetics are so different from so many other people who are donors.
Also, if people always chose people of a different culture with different customs, of a different race, nation etc. to marry (which most people do not do by the way-people overwelmingly choose to marry people who are like them in many ways) then the beauty, uniqueness etc. of each race, country, culture wold be lost eventually! We want to protect endangered subspecies of animals like the polar and panda bears for example. We should do the same with people's unique customs they pass on to their kids with pride.
So yes certain cultures have something of a problem due to perhaps local interbreeding and adaptations to environments like mostly black people having sickle cell anemia trait in their genes and mostly jewish people having Tay Sachs and some european peoples having cyctic fibrosis but encouraging mixing won't neccesarily fix these problems for the majority and can lead to new problems.
As for dogs-I really like some breeds of dog and they were all bred for a specific purpose that way. People abuse kids and don't take care of them-same as with dogs. Encouraging good stewardship in this area is what is needed not banning all bredding. Don't want to be controversial-some breeding controls may be neccesary.
 
Human beings are not polar bears! And there are enough people around to negate any great cultural loss with mixed cultural marriages. And actually, recessive traits can be bred out eventually (for example, there is no more haemophilia in the main royal families of Europe now because it was bred out, it arose through inbreeding and it was bred out through out breeding. I may not agree with the why's of DTT's insistence on marrying outside his culture but I certainly do not see a (good) reason to not do so based upon your arguments either.

Bels
 
Isabella said:
Human beings are not polar bears! And there are enough people around to negate any great cultural loss with mixed cultural marriages. And actually, recessive traits can be bred out eventually (for example, there is no more haemophilia in the main royal families of Europe now because it was bred out, it arose through inbreeding and it was bred out through out breeding. I may not agree with the why's of DTT's insistence on marrying outside his culture but I certainly do not see a (good) reason to not do so based upon your arguments either.

Bels
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You must mean cultural mixing on a small scale then-if done in big enough numbers then cultural/racial genocide is what results.
 
You act as if cultural imperialism hasn't been in effect since 1492!

I won't even dignify the use of genocide in this conversation.

B
 
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