Hi Guys,
This new thread is to open for discussion the subject that Paul not the apostle brought up in the prayers section, which is about bringing the truth of God, as He has revealed it to this generation, (including but not excusive to polygyny) into the Christian church establishment at large.
Please let us bring our personal experience and what God has revealed to us in the Word to the discussion here. Let’s help each other become more prepared for the battles to come. I know this may get long, but I ask that people will try to stay on topic, so that anyone coming behind can easily follow this thread and find it practically useful in these matters.
I read with great empathy the testimony of Paul not the apostle, in the prayers section of how he and his wife are going through trying to bring the light of God’s Word into their church regarding polygyny and the rejection that they experienced from their brothers and sisters. This is but one of many examples of how the enemy is currently working to divide the Church of God. God has enlightened Paul and his wife with His glorious revelatory knowledge regarding the concept of Biblical polygyny. The enemy has come hard against it through the members and leaders of the church to which they belong. This is so typical of how these things go. I am certain that many of those on this site will echo these experiences. What I want to do with this thread is to obtain Godly guidelines for those who find themselves in similar situations, so that they will go into these future ‘battles’ more fully prepared. Not that this will necessarily change the outcome, but it should help those members of the true body of Christ to feel more confident that they have ‘done their homework’. Then they can, with Holy Spirit inspired confidence, face off with the enemy and feel victorious no matter what the consequences or outcome. God will reward us accordingly.
If I may, I will open the discussion by posting some of my own understanding on the topic, as God has revealed it to me and how I teach the subject in my home church. Understand that I do not any longer belong to the church establishment at large that I am referring to. I know that we are all part of the Body of Christ, but I believe that God has a different view as to what that means than we often do. Let me also preface my comments here by saying that I now understand that the people on this site, by and large, are very mature in the Word and have been given great grace and glory, (i.e., revelatory knowledge) from God in order to understand and operate in the Word as they do. Therefore, much of what may come forth in this discussion may not be new to most, but may be particularly helpful for some people here now and those to come who do not know these things or how to approach them according to the Word. Having said that, let me begin...
God took me out of the church establishment along about 1999. Since that time, He has been preparing us for the times in which we now live. ‘By the skin of our teeth’, in 2006 God got us out of debt and set us up financially in a fashion that so far we have escaped the current financial turmoil that many people around the world find themselves in, though that is the subject of another thread. God did all this because we were willing to listen to Him and BELIEVE what He told us about these things. We proved that belief by acting on His commands and are now very grateful. I retrospectively view these things with great amazement. I have preached and continue to preach these end-time issues to anyone who will give ear, including leaders and members of the Christian church establishment. However, the vast majority of people to whom I preach these things DO NOT listen or believe and therefore do not act on them. In accordance, they will likely suffer more than they need to over the next several months to years, as the current economic turmoil leads us into greater tribulation. Bringing the ‘light’ of the true Word of God into the church establishment in this day and age is not going to be any easier than it was for the prophets of old, or for Jesus and the apostles.
I now understand as God has recently revealed to me, that polygyny as described in Isaiah chapter 4 is one of the most important concepts that the people of God will partake in during our generation in preparation for the return of Christ. Until the body of Christ at large begins to understand and operate in the principles laid out in those verses and others related to them, we will NOT be ready for Jesus to come back. That is the reason the enemy will come so hard against bringing this and other truths of God’s Word into the church establishment, because it means his certain demise.
Pride is the root of every evil on the planet, (Sirach 10:12-13). Humility is the opposite of pride and is power under God’s control. If we come to the table with the church establishment in humility, totally submitted to God and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, then we will give God glory in what we show them according to the Word, (James 4:7-10). Whether or not they choose to believe the truth is up to them, (Deuteronomy chapter 30). If however, people trying to bring the light of God’s Word into the church at large come with an arrogant attitude of having greater knowledge, then God will NOT be glorified and He will hold those people accountable for such things, (I Corinthians chapter 3). This Word about polygyny, especially as it pertains to preparation for end-time events and the return of Christ, is a warning for the church. We MUST bring this message to the church as God gives us opportunity so that God’s people will have been warned. God will hold us accountable if we fail to do so, (Ezekiel chapter 33). However, He is also going to hold the church leaders accountable for denying these truths, (Ezekiel chapter 34). Therefore when we are told to go to the church with these issues, we must go with a humble attitude and in an effort to bring peace and not division. We must not let our greater knowledge become a stumbling block for weaker brethren. We are called to walk in Christ’s love, (Romans 12:9-21, 14:14-23, I Corinthians 7:15, chapter 8, 13:2, v. 8, II Corinthians 13:11 and I Peter 3:8-22). This I believe is first and foremost in our approach to this issue.
I agree with the comments of Mark, Doc Burkhart and others from the thread that Paul not the apostle started in the prayers section concerning this issue. We must be prepared for rejection, (Isaiah 53:1, John 12:37-50 and Romans 10:16). However, planting the seed of God’s true word will do its job in the hearts of those who are willing to obey God and they will be rewarded accordingly, but those who refuse to receive will suffer accordingly, (Isaiah 1:19-20 and 55:11). Mark spoke about not touching God’s anointed, (I Chronicles 16:22) and this is good advice. Though David had opportunity, he did not touch Saul even though God had already rejected Saul as king and determined David would replace him. David waited for God to take Saul out. We must follow this example and simply present God’s case to the church members and leaders, as He gives us opportunity and leave the rest up to God. He will confirm the true Word with power and other witnesses.
I never recommend that someone whom I teach leave their church. They will be the light in that darkness. The only reason that I ever advise someone to leave their church when God begins working in their lives by revealing deeper truths, is either they are asked to leave, (paraphrasing Doc Burkhart- they get the ‘left foot of rejection’ rather than the ‘right hand of acceptance’) or God tells them to leave. Rarely will He do that through me. Persecution from other members of the Christian church is going to happen. It usually comes when the truth of God’s Word is revealed and the light is shined into the darkness of the church establishment. Just as the prophets of old, Jesus and the apostles suffered rejection in these cases, so will we and we must rejoice when it happens. We must not get angry, sad or frustrated and act on such feelings. We are celled to be PEACEMEKERS and to REJOICE in these situations, as we move toward perfection in Christ. There will come a day when God will reveal all these things to his people and we will shine for having received the truth early on, (Matthew 5:9-12, Vv. 43-48, Luke 16:22-23, Vv. 27-36, John 16:33, Philippians 1:15-18, 4:4-7, Colossians 1:24-2:10, I Thessalonians 5:16-18, II Timothy 4:1-5, I Peter 1:6-9, 4:12-14 and Revelation 3:9).
I call on all the Godly men and women of this site and those to come to add to these words as God leads, so that we can get ready to stand on the true Word of God in unity for Christ during the upcoming turbulent times. Amen!
Be blessed,
Dr. Ray
This new thread is to open for discussion the subject that Paul not the apostle brought up in the prayers section, which is about bringing the truth of God, as He has revealed it to this generation, (including but not excusive to polygyny) into the Christian church establishment at large.
Please let us bring our personal experience and what God has revealed to us in the Word to the discussion here. Let’s help each other become more prepared for the battles to come. I know this may get long, but I ask that people will try to stay on topic, so that anyone coming behind can easily follow this thread and find it practically useful in these matters.
I read with great empathy the testimony of Paul not the apostle, in the prayers section of how he and his wife are going through trying to bring the light of God’s Word into their church regarding polygyny and the rejection that they experienced from their brothers and sisters. This is but one of many examples of how the enemy is currently working to divide the Church of God. God has enlightened Paul and his wife with His glorious revelatory knowledge regarding the concept of Biblical polygyny. The enemy has come hard against it through the members and leaders of the church to which they belong. This is so typical of how these things go. I am certain that many of those on this site will echo these experiences. What I want to do with this thread is to obtain Godly guidelines for those who find themselves in similar situations, so that they will go into these future ‘battles’ more fully prepared. Not that this will necessarily change the outcome, but it should help those members of the true body of Christ to feel more confident that they have ‘done their homework’. Then they can, with Holy Spirit inspired confidence, face off with the enemy and feel victorious no matter what the consequences or outcome. God will reward us accordingly.
If I may, I will open the discussion by posting some of my own understanding on the topic, as God has revealed it to me and how I teach the subject in my home church. Understand that I do not any longer belong to the church establishment at large that I am referring to. I know that we are all part of the Body of Christ, but I believe that God has a different view as to what that means than we often do. Let me also preface my comments here by saying that I now understand that the people on this site, by and large, are very mature in the Word and have been given great grace and glory, (i.e., revelatory knowledge) from God in order to understand and operate in the Word as they do. Therefore, much of what may come forth in this discussion may not be new to most, but may be particularly helpful for some people here now and those to come who do not know these things or how to approach them according to the Word. Having said that, let me begin...
God took me out of the church establishment along about 1999. Since that time, He has been preparing us for the times in which we now live. ‘By the skin of our teeth’, in 2006 God got us out of debt and set us up financially in a fashion that so far we have escaped the current financial turmoil that many people around the world find themselves in, though that is the subject of another thread. God did all this because we were willing to listen to Him and BELIEVE what He told us about these things. We proved that belief by acting on His commands and are now very grateful. I retrospectively view these things with great amazement. I have preached and continue to preach these end-time issues to anyone who will give ear, including leaders and members of the Christian church establishment. However, the vast majority of people to whom I preach these things DO NOT listen or believe and therefore do not act on them. In accordance, they will likely suffer more than they need to over the next several months to years, as the current economic turmoil leads us into greater tribulation. Bringing the ‘light’ of the true Word of God into the church establishment in this day and age is not going to be any easier than it was for the prophets of old, or for Jesus and the apostles.
I now understand as God has recently revealed to me, that polygyny as described in Isaiah chapter 4 is one of the most important concepts that the people of God will partake in during our generation in preparation for the return of Christ. Until the body of Christ at large begins to understand and operate in the principles laid out in those verses and others related to them, we will NOT be ready for Jesus to come back. That is the reason the enemy will come so hard against bringing this and other truths of God’s Word into the church establishment, because it means his certain demise.
Pride is the root of every evil on the planet, (Sirach 10:12-13). Humility is the opposite of pride and is power under God’s control. If we come to the table with the church establishment in humility, totally submitted to God and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, then we will give God glory in what we show them according to the Word, (James 4:7-10). Whether or not they choose to believe the truth is up to them, (Deuteronomy chapter 30). If however, people trying to bring the light of God’s Word into the church at large come with an arrogant attitude of having greater knowledge, then God will NOT be glorified and He will hold those people accountable for such things, (I Corinthians chapter 3). This Word about polygyny, especially as it pertains to preparation for end-time events and the return of Christ, is a warning for the church. We MUST bring this message to the church as God gives us opportunity so that God’s people will have been warned. God will hold us accountable if we fail to do so, (Ezekiel chapter 33). However, He is also going to hold the church leaders accountable for denying these truths, (Ezekiel chapter 34). Therefore when we are told to go to the church with these issues, we must go with a humble attitude and in an effort to bring peace and not division. We must not let our greater knowledge become a stumbling block for weaker brethren. We are called to walk in Christ’s love, (Romans 12:9-21, 14:14-23, I Corinthians 7:15, chapter 8, 13:2, v. 8, II Corinthians 13:11 and I Peter 3:8-22). This I believe is first and foremost in our approach to this issue.
I agree with the comments of Mark, Doc Burkhart and others from the thread that Paul not the apostle started in the prayers section concerning this issue. We must be prepared for rejection, (Isaiah 53:1, John 12:37-50 and Romans 10:16). However, planting the seed of God’s true word will do its job in the hearts of those who are willing to obey God and they will be rewarded accordingly, but those who refuse to receive will suffer accordingly, (Isaiah 1:19-20 and 55:11). Mark spoke about not touching God’s anointed, (I Chronicles 16:22) and this is good advice. Though David had opportunity, he did not touch Saul even though God had already rejected Saul as king and determined David would replace him. David waited for God to take Saul out. We must follow this example and simply present God’s case to the church members and leaders, as He gives us opportunity and leave the rest up to God. He will confirm the true Word with power and other witnesses.
I never recommend that someone whom I teach leave their church. They will be the light in that darkness. The only reason that I ever advise someone to leave their church when God begins working in their lives by revealing deeper truths, is either they are asked to leave, (paraphrasing Doc Burkhart- they get the ‘left foot of rejection’ rather than the ‘right hand of acceptance’) or God tells them to leave. Rarely will He do that through me. Persecution from other members of the Christian church is going to happen. It usually comes when the truth of God’s Word is revealed and the light is shined into the darkness of the church establishment. Just as the prophets of old, Jesus and the apostles suffered rejection in these cases, so will we and we must rejoice when it happens. We must not get angry, sad or frustrated and act on such feelings. We are celled to be PEACEMEKERS and to REJOICE in these situations, as we move toward perfection in Christ. There will come a day when God will reveal all these things to his people and we will shine for having received the truth early on, (Matthew 5:9-12, Vv. 43-48, Luke 16:22-23, Vv. 27-36, John 16:33, Philippians 1:15-18, 4:4-7, Colossians 1:24-2:10, I Thessalonians 5:16-18, II Timothy 4:1-5, I Peter 1:6-9, 4:12-14 and Revelation 3:9).
I call on all the Godly men and women of this site and those to come to add to these words as God leads, so that we can get ready to stand on the true Word of God in unity for Christ during the upcoming turbulent times. Amen!
Be blessed,
Dr. Ray
