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Aren't We On The Same Team?

Maddog

Maddog

Member
Male
Hello All in Biblical Families. Let me just put this out there, and like my mother used to say, "If the shoe fits, wear it!" I find that many have very strong views on just about everything under the sun. That doesn't bother me because I think that as iron sharpens iron, sometimes a few sparks fly, however, Don't take a Hammer to a grinding stone! In other words, I have witnessed many attacks on various people not just positions in my 11 years here. This bothers me that some would be so insecure as to skip the absurdity of a particular position and go for the jugular and act like the couch warriors of the political left and try to vilify a person for their "obviously stooopid" ideas and "nefarious intent." It is good that people have strong opinions but that is different from "quarrels". James says, "From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?" God's children ought to be a bit different in that we are buillders and encouragers. There IS a time of correction but that is not what I have been witness to recently. Just about every person is out at the tip of the spear on the positions of marriage and family. Let's face it, it's not a very popular position in the general public and each of us deals with it differently in our daily walk but pioneers we are.
It better that we agree on SOME things and work for the furtherance of our ideas and ideals. Gentlemen, we best hang together for most assuredly we will hang separately! (Thanx Ben!)
 
I found some encouragement here for times when I get personally attacked.
 
Sometimes a strong response is warranted.

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."

~ Marcus Tullius Cicero
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Traitors and infiltrators (and catfish!) abound. They will come among us and sow discord and they will come among us and say things that our enemies will use against us.

Wisdom is to know when the strong response is warranted and to reserve such a thing only for the interests of our fellowship.

Differences of opinion over Scripture should not be a reason for division when we are united in our Salvation through Christ our Lord.
 
MeganC said:
Sometimes a strong response is warranted.
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I agree. We see that exemplified by our Lord in His dealings with the religious leaders and with the Twelve at times.
MeganC said:
Wisdom is to know when the strong response is warranted and to reserve such a thing only for the interests of our fellowship.
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The fact that Jesus could maintain His relationship with the likes of Peter, and even endure Judas knowing he would betray Him, is a truly amazing example and challenge for us.
 
frederick said:
The fact that Jesus could maintain His relationship with the likes of Peter, and even endure Judas knowing he would betray Him, is a truly amazing example and challenge for us.
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Amen. It is also a standard that I all too often fall short of.
 
I'd imagine it looks so much like two teams, because there are. Most of the discussions happening are about team "Jesus abolished the Law" vs. team "R. Yeshua ben Yoseph taught Torah." And since that difference is fundamental to one's concept of who our Master is and His commands to us, then yeah, it'll be a bit of a fight. Because the "Jesus fullfilled the Law so we don't have to" crowd sees the "Torah-keepers" as Judaizers and legalists heaping "manmade traditions" on the free grace of God, while the reverse sees the others as lazy and rebellious servants who are willfully abandoning the commands of the Master.

Since wrestling in the dirt like boys and men isn't available, this is our current compromise. It sucks to be online. I'd rather be brawling intellectually in person.
 
DawoodSaar said:
I'd imagine it looks so much like two teams, because there are.
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Pretty close. Face it, the Real Messiah, whatever His Name might be, said He came to bring a sword. More than once. He also said (in the context of casting out demons, ironically) that, "He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad."

Paul later warned, just a few decades after the Torah Made Flesh walked among men, that he knew some would come preaching "another jesus whom we have NOT preached," and that people would put up with it. He also said things like, "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness," and a bit more.

There's a reason He says, "come out of her, My people," don't participate in their sins, and 'touch not the unclean thing.'

Like it or not, this is the real issue, and He knew it. Do we serve Him - alone - or 'another master'?

This is why the Bereans "searched out the Scripture" - and guess what that meant? - for themselves. And it's why we were given SO many tests, including, but not limited to, Deuteronomy chapters 7, 12, 13, His Own introduction in Matthew 5, and all His 'words in red'. This is why Torah-observant 'jews' laugh at xtian idolatry, and, sadly, miss the Real One.

If He is not consistent, He is NOT any kind of 'messiah'. And if someone tries to make Him a "liar, and the Truth not in Him," I recognize Deception.
 
Maddog said:
and why should I not forgive where God has forgiven? Most of the time I was never wronged.
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My uncle likes to say God forgives everyone who forgives everyone. I know thatvis imperfect and there are exceptions....but it's good to remember that 70 times 7 probably hasn't happened yet for any of us.
 
DawoodSaar said:
I'd imagine it looks so much like two teams, because there are. Most of the discussions happening are about team "Jesus abolished the Law" vs. team "R. Yeshua ben Yoseph taught Torah." And since that difference is fundamental to one's concept of who our Master is and His commands to us, then yeah, it'll be a bit of a fight. Because the "Jesus fullfilled the Law so we don't have to" crowd sees the "Torah-keepers" as Judaizers and legalists heaping "manmade traditions" on the free grace of God, while the reverse sees the others as lazy and rebellious servants who are willfully abandoning the commands of the Master.

Since wrestling in the dirt like boys and men isn't available, this is our current compromise. It sucks to be online. I'd rather be brawling intellectually in person.
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We do argue quite a bit about this topic. Legalism and antinomianism (in various forms) are two of the classic heresies. Both are real dangers. Both always seem to exist in the visible church. As Revoltingman mentioned both wheat and tares grow together. We pray that the Son of God will deliver us from both, and that we will abide in Him.

"For certain people have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into indecent behavior and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." (Jude 4)

And

"And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage)," (Galatians 2:4)

In the wisdom of God, both Jude and Galatians (and many other books) are in The Book

We also argue quite heatedly about the war in Ukraine. 😁
 
DawoodSaar said:
I'd imagine it looks so much like two teams, because there are. Most of the discussions happening are about team "Jesus abolished the Law" vs. team "R. Yeshua ben Yoseph taught Torah." And since that difference is fundamental to one's concept of who our Master is and His commands to us, then yeah, it'll be a bit of a fight. Because the "Jesus fullfilled the Law so we don't have to" crowd sees the "Torah-keepers" as Judaizers and legalists heaping "manmade traditions" on the free grace of God, while the reverse sees the others as lazy and rebellious servants who are willfully abandoning the commands of the Master.

Since wrestling in the dirt like boys and men isn't available, this is our current compromise. It sucks to be online. I'd rather be brawling intellectually in person.
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The perspective to keep in mind is that we are two parts of the same team. It may be of intellectual interest to wrestle in the dirt with each other, but that should be a sport in the same way that two groups of soldiers from the same army may have a fiercely fought sports competition - it might help to increase everyone's fitness, but it should not ultimately be antagonistic.

The moment the enemy come over the hill the army still has to be united - and the internal competition should have made them more united, not less.

If we direct too much of our energy into fighting each other, and detract from the energy we should be putting into winning the greater battle, then we are no longer serving our King but are only inciting disorder in the ranks.
 
The purpose of my question was to find SOMETHING to agree on and WHY. If we can agree that eating pork is not healthy then the practice is curbed a bit and the libertarians are free NOT to but based on knowledge and Torah keepers are free to follow faith. Faith supports science and science supports faith.
 
All the 'warm fuzzies' in here overlook the key point:

(which actually is only superficially related to 'food' - but very much related to "abomination")

Was Paul right - or not - when he warned that people would come "preaching another jesus, whom we have NOT preached" - and that he was [rightly] concerned they'd fall for? (II Corinthians 11:4)

Eating - or injecting - something which destroys your immune system (regardless of which Great God Science others worship) - is arguably a "life or death" issue.

But following the wrong 'messiah' is almost certainly 'salvific'. (If not - why worry about the 'antichrist' so many think is near at hand? And how will you KNOW, anyway?)

There's a reason, I contend, why that same fellow warned people to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

After all, the Real One did certainly say that His path was not only "narrow," not broad, or warm and fuzzy," but "few there be that find it." (Matthew 7:14)
 
Food for thought (if not perhaps for much else...):

www.lewrockwell.com

Lab-Grown Meat Is Made of Cancer Cells - LewRockwell

USDA does not allow animal tumors to enter food chain. But lab-grown meat is made of tumor cells. According to Bill Gates and the World Economic Forum, ongoing global warming threatens to destroy humanity. Methane, coming from the belches and farts of cows, is a greenhouse gas (GHG). So, cows...
www.lewrockwell.com www.lewrockwell.com

Key point is in the headline. It's 'protein' - by the same arguments we've seen, it's 'not prohibited' say some, so what's not to like? Besides, Bill Gates wants you to eat it, too.

Yeah - maybe it's made from human 'immortal' cancer cell lines, but it's "meat" - and isn't that "all good?"
 
I am not endorsing peace at any cost. I am however pointing out that we have MORE in common than in division. There is room to have disagreement in sooo many things and yet be on the same team working toward the same goal. I simply referred to the fact that there WAS division but it was petty enough that Dr Luke didnt even define it. We know that type of behaviors when a few Type A get together and are driven internally to be right and to affirm to others that they are. I am pretty sure that most of us agree in the substitutionary atonement of Jesus the Christ and our single trust in such, i.e. soteriology(I am reaching back to systematic theology classes way back when). Old Testament rules are not unnecessary(double negative there) but are rather healthy and we would do well to find out WHY they are the better choice in diet, relationships, behavior, worship, etc. Will eating clams send us to Hell? Certainly not but if we catch that red tide bacteria we might be thinking that. Pork that is raised in relatively waste free(hygienically clean in the western world) environment might not be as unhealthy as might be found in tribal lands in other environments. (now we are mixing two seperate threads).
It is a CHOICE to not eat unclean foods and the typical human body reacts better to clean foods. Generations to come will appreciate the non-mixing of too close relatives and incestuous living. Our spiritual well being will grow healthy as we keep God and His Word in the forefront of our minds (tassles and headcoverings being reminders).
 
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