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Another presentation on modesty

Joleneakamama

Joleneakamama

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Female
This was quite well done. Aside from basically (like most Christians do) redefining adultery to include looking at any woman with desire (like how did you see or even decide you wanted your wife before she was yours??) this presentation is good at bringing together relevant scripture, and encourages people toward a right standard.


I remember the way a brother in law looked at me once....and the comment he made. It was complimentary but in effect caused me to dress differently after that in public, or even around extended family. I like the comment in the video from president Woodrow Wilson about the well dressed woman's clothes not being noticed. Good stuff!!
:)
 
I'm 9 minutes into the video and he is yet to use a passage in context or apply it correctly. So far he is dead wrong with virtually everything he said. I will finish the video and give a full review when I'm done.
 
At about 14:45 he commits a sin in this video. Adding to Torah is sin and nowhere in Torah (or all of scripture) is it prohibited for a man to go without a shirt. He does a great job of explaining the churchianity definition of modest but gives zero in context scriptural support for this man made doctrine.

The truth is that nowhere in scripture is it prohibited to be naked. No where in scripture is it prohibited for a man to recognize the attractiveness of a woman. If she is married don't desire to take her. That's the standard. Adding to that is sin.

This video is an example of the "Christian" version of the "toxic masculinity" culture which at its root is feminism and completely unbiblical.
 
Towards the end He gives multiple examples of questions that intentionally "lead the witness" into giving answers that are considered to be negative because of our modern society and centuries of wrong church doctrine. When in reality they are simply explaining the nature that God created men with.

STOP SHAMING MEN AND TEENAGE BOYS FOR ENJOYING THE SIGHT OF THE FEMALE BODY!!! it's not wrong it should not be discouraged it is detrimental to them when you do that. It's emasculating. It's against nature and against the God given design.
 
I appreciate your review and perspective @Pacman

I should probably edit my post to say that in my female perspective the video encourages women toward not dressing like whores and married women to be more aware that men are different and the flaunting of their bodies has potential to both reflect poorly on their raising, and poorly on the body of believers.

I agree completely that adultery did not get redefined, and that adding to the word is sin.
It is one of those areas where personal standards or comfort levels can easily be mistaken for the standard and then taught as such.

Proverbs says to guard your heart, because out if it come the issues of life.

A man that walks right and does guard his heart can probably look at a married women even dressed provocatively and not think about her innapropriately, but any man who has stumbled or been through multiple partners, especially if he does not have one at the time, might have a harder time controlling his thoughts.
There is a difference too in admiring beauty or human form and mentally crossing the line into sexual desire or fantasy.

I guess the bigger problem is unisex doctrine, (not recognizing the commandments are written to men) and of course the adding that you so rightly condemn that sets men up to either fail as "godly" men, or succeed at making eunuchs of themselves. :(o_O:confused:

Here is another interesting contradiction.
I am not really bothered at all by seeing strangers bodies on tv or competing in sports, but think that among other believers known to us I'd greatly prefer a greater degree of being dressed. My sisters competed in gymnastics growing up. I don't think they intended to be inappropriate at all in their dress, yet I see the next generation is even less modest and choosing clothes and swimwear that is impractical even and just going with the modern trend toward sexualized fashion.
My mormon sisters let their girls n boys shake their booties to modern music at the family reunion and call it tallent.

I remember @The Revolting Man stating in times past that Christianity just wasn't cutting it for him as far as holiness and being set apart was concerned. I understand.

The cross denominational aspect of the membership here is a HUGE asset imo.

If there is wisdom in a multitude of counsellors it's probably even better if they didn't all come from the same semetary....er seminary. :D
As long as they are all in pursuit of the truth.
 
Probably my only 2 cents on this issue right now is to assert that it is valuable to assert the distinction between desire and coveting. I find insufficient evidence that Scripture makes any effort to enact thought control. It is God's design that we should desire other human beings, and a lot of mental wheels are spent spinning attempting to deny the existence of desire. What is prohibited is coveting, which involves making plans to behave sexually with someone one desires who is not one's partner but another's partner. The commandment is not Thou shalt not desire one's neighbor's wife; it is Thou shalt not covet one's neighbor's wife, which would involve making plans to have sex with her or manipulating circumstances for the purposes of stealing one's neighbor's wife from him.

We're also not supposed to covet our neighbor's belongings, but that should not stop us from fantasizing about getting a nice tractor ourselves. We're just not supposed to plot to put our neighbor's tractor in our barn.
 
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Keith Martin said:
What is prohibited is coveting,
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Coveting certain things even. What is the neighbor's is his, and things that would take away from his household like servants and obviously his wife are listed. His daughter is not on the do not covet list as it is right for her to marry and build another man's house.
Being inspired by what your neighbor has is good, taking away from him and his household in an effort to build your own, is not good. We should all be actively building, not trying to benefit from the labor of others.
 
I didn't realize this was a WVBS video. They are a classic church of Christ organization. Watching this video is almost verbatim to every modesty sermon I heard growing up. Even the example of men serving communion being uncomfortable with what women wear is the same.
Joleneakamama said:
If there is wisdom in a multitude of counsellors it's probably even better if they didn't all come from the same semetary....er seminary.
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The truth of this statement is probably why it all sounds the same and makes the same mistakes in interpretation.
 
Also, the video claims in the Old Testament someone was naked when his thigh was uncovered. But the men girded up their loins when they went to battle or were doing heavy work. According to this diagram and descriptions elsewhere, men were apparently going to war and work "naked."

Alternatively, I have seen some evidence that "thigh" sometimes is a euphemism for genitals.
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Joleneakamama said:
Coveting certain things even. What is the neighbor's is his, and things that would take away from his household like servants and obviously his wife are listed. His daughter is not on the do not covet list as it is right for her to marry and build another man's house.
Being inspired by what your neighbor has is good, taking away from him and his household in an effort to build your own, is not good. We should all be actively building, not trying to benefit from the labor of others.
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Well said!
 
Joleneakamama said:
This was quite well done. Aside from basically (like most Christians do) redefining adultery to include looking at any woman with desire (like how did you see or even decide you wanted your wife before she was yours??) this presentation is good at bringing together relevant scripture, and encourages people toward a right standard.


I remember the way a brother in law looked at me once....and the comment he made. It was complimentary but in effect caused me to dress differently after that in public, or even around extended family. I like the comment in the video from president Woodrow Wilson about the well dressed woman's clothes not being noticed. Good stuff!!
:)
Click to expand...
I like Woodrow Wilson's comment about the well dressed woman's clothes too, it will hopefully stay with me for life, infact I think I will share it with my 31 year old daughter.
 
Pacman said:
STOP SHAMING MEN AND TEENAGE BOYS FOR ENJOYING THE SIGHT OF THE FEMALE BODY!!! it's not wrong it should not be discouraged it is detrimental to them when you do that. It's emasculating. It's against nature and against the God given design.
Click to expand...
There is a way to do that without being obnoxious. I do not mind- in fact I might appreciate - if someone looks at me, when it becomes more extended, when they practically start salivating it becomes more of a bother.

There is certainly a cultural aspect involved as well. In parts of Europe it is the norm that woman are often topless in a beach like setting. Everything from children ( who are often completely naked) to seniors. I am as well when I am with my cousins, and there was never a situation where I felt harrased. People glance yes, but they glance when they just see my face as well. If that bothers me I should stay out of public.
 
Maia said:
There is a way to do that without being obnoxious. I do not mind- in fact I might appreciate - if someone looks at me, when it becomes more extended, when they practically start salivating it becomes more of a bother.

There is certainly a cultural aspect involved as well. In parts of Europe it is the norm that woman are often topless in a beach like setting. Everything from children ( who are often completely naked) to seniors. I am as well when I am with my cousins, and there was never a situation where I felt harrased. People glance yes, but they glance when they just see my face as well. If that bothers me I should stay out of public.
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Little column A little column B

In large part I agree that nudity is not in of itself an issue. More of a personal comfort level thing.

The biggest issue is having a culture in which one can be high trust. That equation is breaking down all across the west unfortunately.

Been to loads of beaches as you describe while in Europe during my misspent youth...doing the scruffy backpacker staying in youth hostels and camping etc. Couple of hostels with co-ed facilities. Didn't do me any harm and about ten minutes into it, even the teenage country bumpkin kid got used to it and it faded into the background.

Without the high trust and at minimum similar notions of manners and propriety it can not work however.
 
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