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An Odd Coupling: Abraham & Keturah

Crossgeared Viking

Crossgeared Viking

New Member
I was casually strolling through Gensis some days ago and as I was passing chapter twenty-five it suddenly hit me. At this point in his life "Abraham was very old and advanced in age" right?, and for most of his life he seems to have had trouble fathering children. I mean, he only had Ishmael & Isaac before Keturah as far as we know. Given that both he & Sarah thought the proposition of having a child at the age they were when Isaac was born as impossible in a million years, one has to wonder why he married Keturah at an even older age and how he was able to father six children by her. I realize a man can be quite "capable" well into his latter half-century, but even the most physically fit men must eventually reach a point where it's a pain to even stand up, let alone father six kids. I could be I'm missing something in plain sight (which is not uncommon for me [especially when it comes to calculus]) but does anyone else find this marriage odd?
 
faithunseen said:
Dont really seem odd considering life expectancy was far longer than it is now..
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Before the Noahic Deluge yeah, but after that happened, lifespans quickly dropped off. Plus, as I pointed out, the text in Chapter 24 seems to imply by the tone that Abraham was on par with the average great-grandpa of today. Personal interpretation on my part of course. I could be wrong.
 
Crossgeared Viking said:
does anyone else find this marriage odd?
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Not at all! It is my own aim to die at the age of 140, leaving 2 mid-20s wives pregnant and very well off! :lol: :lol: (Now, can I interest you in some beachfront property in Montana?)

Another way to look at it might be that when God, um, revved Abraham's body back up, it stayed revved. For God does things well! :roll: Un-hunh! Kumbayah, Lord! :D
 
CecilW said:
Crossgeared Viking said:
does anyone else find this marriage odd?
Click to expand...
Not at all! It is my own aim to die at the age of 140, leaving 2 mid-20s wives pregnant and very well off! :lol: :lol: (Now, can I interest you in some beachfront property in Montana?)

Another way to look at it might be that when God, um, revved Abraham's body back up, it stayed revved. For God does things well! :roll: Un-hunh! Kumbayah, Lord! :D
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Very well might have. YHWH does indeed work in mysterious ways. I hadn't considered this before and I'll need to check, but it's also possible that Abraham took Keturah before Sarah's deah. I should know better by know that the Bible is not too concerned with recording events in the order that they literally occurred.

P.s. There are beaches in Montana? :? ;)
 
Sarah had Isaac at the age of 91, one year after he was promised (Genesis 17:17). She died at 127 (Genesis 23:1).
Abraham was 100 when Isaac was born (Genesis 21:5), and died at the age of 175 (Genesis 25:7). Ishmael was 13 when Abraham was 99 (Genesis 17:24-25).
Also note that Abraham's father Terah was about 70 when Abram was born, and lived to 205 years old (Genesis 11:24,32).

So:
When Abram took Hagar to wife and had Ishmael, he was 86, Sarai was 77, and Terah was still alive at the age of 156.
When Abraham was promised that Sarah would bear a child, and both were said to be old (with Sarah being past menopause), Abraham was 99, Sarah was 90, and Terah was still alive aged 169.
Terah didn't die until Isaac was 35 years old, and Abraham was 135.

Would Abraham really have considered himself that old, when he knew his father was still alive and probably hearty (given he survived much longer) at the age of 169, when the angel promised Sarah would have a child?

The Bible does say Abraham was old then. However the emphasis is on Sarah's age and the fact that she was past menopause (Genesis 18:11). There was probably actually nothing wrong with Abraham in that department.

Abraham probably didn't marry Keturah before the birth of Isaac, or that would have complicated the inheritance issues further. So, he had 75 years following the birth of Isaac, or 49 years following the death of Sarah, to marry Keturah and have children by her. Even if he waited until Sarah's death he had enough time to see Keturah's grandchildren.

Cecil's speculation that God fixed Abraham and he stayed fixed is possible, however I doubt there was anything wrong with Abraham. The issue was Sarah's barrenness, and this issue didn't apply with his other wives. Remember we aren't told how many daughters he had, Hagar could have had a few for all we know even before the birth of Isaac.
 
Re: An Odd Coupling: Abraham & Keturah

Crossgeared Viking said:
faithunseen said:
Dont really seem odd considering life expectancy was far longer than it is now..
Click to expand...

Before the Noahic Deluge yeah, but after that happened, lifespans quickly dropped off. Plus, as I pointed out, the text in Chapter 24 seems to imply by the tone that Abraham was on par with the average great-grandpa of today. Personal interpretation on my part of course. I could be wrong.
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I always found it interesting God said he would limit man to 120 years, at this time. But it took awhile to accomplish. Probably had to do with re populating the earth quickly.
Then Moses died at 120, in good health. Like a "fullfillment". Of sorts.
 
I don't post much anymore, but I like threads like these.....

Gen 25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.
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Father Abraham had many sons....he had concubines....as in "more than one". Interesting.
 
Paul not the apostle said:
Father Abraham had many sons....he had concubines....as in "more than one". Interesting.
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Which, to my mind, simply means that he did NOT divorce Hagar, as some claim, but merely separated her and Sarah, as they hadn't made peace with each other in 14 years.

Could, of course, mean that he had other concubines as well besides Hagar and Keturah.
 
jwh said:
Crossgeared Viking said:
I always found it interesting God said he would limit man to 120 years, at this time. But it took awhile to accomplish. Probably had to do with re populating the earth quickly.
Then Moses died at 120, in good health. Like a "fullfillment". Of sorts.
Click to expand...
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Average human lifespan has up until recently been around 80yrs, so I doubt that's what God was referring to. I believe God was revealing how long man had to repent before HE decided to rain cataclysm down upon them.
 
CecilW said:
Paul not the apostle said:
Father Abraham had many sons....he had concubines....as in "more than one". Interesting.
Click to expand...

Which, to my mind, simply means that he did NOT divorce Hagar, as some claim, but merely separated her and Sarah, as they hadn't made peace with each other in 14 years.

Could, of course, mean that he had other concubines as well besides Hagar and Keturah.
Click to expand...

Appealing theory, but it kind of flies in the face of Hagar and Ishmael almost dying out in the wilderness. That can hardly happen if your husband is around. Mind you, they obviously still had contact with each other, being that Ishmael returned to help Isaac bury Abraham. (One wonders what the reunion was like? I'm imagining the sort of greeting Jacob would fear from Esau some decades later.)
 
Whether or not Abraham divorced Hagar has nothing to do with the fact that Ishmael was the son of Abraham's concubine Hagar. Divorce doesn't alter parentage. So Ishmael, and Keturah's sons, are "the sons of Abraham's concubines", regardless. Now it is theoretically possible that there could have been other sons also, but then why would the Bible discuss Keturah's sons but not these others?
 
Crossgeared Viking said:
CecilW said:
Paul not the apostle said:
Father Abraham had many sons....he had concubines....as in "more than one". Interesting.
Click to expand...

Which, to my mind, simply means that he did NOT divorce Hagar, as some claim, but merely separated her and Sarah, as they hadn't made peace with each other in 14 years.

Could, of course, mean that he had other concubines as well besides Hagar and Keturah.
Click to expand...

Appealing theory, but it kind of flies in the face of Hagar and Ishmael almost dying out in the wilderness. That can hardly happen if your husband is around. Mind you, they obviously still had contact with each other, being that Ishmael returned to help Isaac bury Abraham. (One wonders what the reunion was like? I'm imagining the sort of greeting Jacob would fear from Esau some decades later.)
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Hagar and Ishmael did not almost die in the wilderness. The water ran out and she threw him under a bush and sat down and said she couldn't watch him die. Sounds a little exaggerated and dramatic to me, but maybe your experience with the female sex has never included any exaggeration in emotional settings like mine has.... :roll:

When the angel appears, he encourages her and points out the water hole that can be seen from where she is sitting.
 
Paul, your explanation of this is brilliant and entirely reasonable! As a woman, I am tempted to take offense, but if the high heeled shoe fits...
 
In Hebrew the word for year is also the word for cycle or revolution. Shanah H8141
So this could be interpreted as 120 cycles....then one is left to ponder what cycles. :)
Interesting topic. Thanks for starting it.
 
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