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Abandoning single women to their fate

S

Shadowjak's Dancer

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Male
So, assuming the first wife hates the idea of p.m., but there are women in your faith community who are just having no success finding eligible men...
is there/at what point does it actually become wrong/sinful to simply abandon the single women to their fate, instead of providing godly families for them to be welcomed into?

If wife #1 still digs heels in at this point, what are your opinions on the best way forward?
 
I would think it a VERY bad idea to pursue poly if your wife is not ready to move forward. I don't believe it is ever "sinful" or "wrong" to not provide yourself as a husband to single ladies, heck, some are called to be celibate after all. I mean, your first responsibility (in terms of marriage) is to your wife. So, IMO, the best way forward would be to love the wife you have well. And realistically, would the abandoned single women you're mentioning really be welcomed into the family if your wife was against it? Hopefully, if poly is something you feel called to, pouring love into your wife will help her see that you have a lot of love to give and help her come around. My wife and I started talking about poly quite a long while ago, but it's just now that we're ready, as a team, to move forward.
 
I think that it is sinful for us as women to stand in the way of a calling that our husband has, and to be so selfish that we won't share. It might be wise to try to get the wife to see the need for a new wife to be added to the family but it sin't mandated in scripture that I can see. I don't see David sending word to his other wife before asking Avigayil to be his new wife. I know I sound almost heartless, but really I do know how hard this is. I am thankful that my husband helped me to pray it through and gave me time to adjust before he took my sw.... but, had I not chosen to submit my will and let my husband lead I still think he would have been righteous to take another wife.

Intellectually, I really did see the positives of polygany, but getting my emotions in line took a lot more. We are raised in a culture that encourages selfishness in love, but hard as it is, I still think it is OK to take another wife even if the first wife doesn't approve. We are to respect our husbands and be a help fit for them, not dictators to them.

Wow, reading my own words makes me want to take a deep breath! Whew! Yah make us all so humble that we do not have to learn lessons in that kind of tough way!
 
I hope I didn't imply that it would necessarily be sinful to take another wife without the cooperation of the first (though I suppose an argument could be made regarding the command to honor our wife and love in a self sacrificial way), only that it would be a bad idea. Primarily from a "home harmony" standpoint.
 
Jacob,
I don't think there is a specific, delineated point where it becomes sinful not to marry, if at all. However, I still hear Paul echo in my head, he who knows to do right and does not, to him it is sin. The issue then is, is one sure, I mean really sure, that it would be right to take one or more of these ladies.


Elisheba,
God bless you.

Untold,
I feel you on that one brother. But, fundamentally, one then has to ask, at what price peace?
 
"Abandoning single women to their fate" is a bit extreme. It's not as though singleness is a death sentence! It is not sin to leave women single.

I agree with Elisheba that you're the head of the family, you can take another wife even without the first wife's consent, technically. However I also agree with UntoldGlory that this would generally be a very stupid idea if the first wife doesn't agree. Something can be not sin, but still a bad idea.

If you marry one of these single women, and your wife leaves angrily over it, you haven't actually reduced the number of single women in the world or increased your number of wives, just switched them around and been through a lot of pain in the process.

That's all speaking in general terms. Obviously if an angel appears and says "you must marry Lucy by Christmas", you'd do it, and God would have a plan to bring your first wife through the difficult situation. It would be sin to disobey. But that is a rather rare situation...
 
Just to avoid the concerns of some who may be worried, I am not speculating on decisions to be made, only spurring what I think to be an interesting topic.

Certainly, as pointed out above, some women are called to be single. What about those who aren't, however, doesn't the Bible tell us to provide for the widows and orphans... If this is the case, and the Scripture also says that it is better to marry than to burn... well, let's put it this way:

We tell our young people to not be unequally yoked, and we tell them to remain undefiled before marriage, but we don't help them to fulfill their needs for companionship? Didn't Jesus criticize the Pharisee for laying heavy burdens on the people without lifting a finger to help?

I'm not saying that we shouldn't encourage people to conduct their sexual/marriage activities according to the prescribed manner in Scripture; I am saying the exact opposite. It seems to me that we should give them a means to successfully keep to a Biblically sound lifestyle, without being frustrated for no reason when there are eligible men around.

If we don't, but are only wrapped up in maintaining our own status quo, are we truly loving our neighbor? Can this boil down to a matter of neglecting to compassionately supply the needs of God's children?
 
Oh I totally agree that plural marriage would be the perfect solution to unwed Christian women wanting companionship in the church. Heck, I even made a math related topic about it! But in the same way that it would not be ideal for them to marry an un-Godly man, it would also not be ideal to marry into a family where it would cause division and strife.

As to responsibilities, yes, we are to take care of widows and orphans. So if some of those single ladies are widows (or heck, even orphans) then that would apply, but it doesn't nessecarily mean marriage. We spent some time recently volunteering at a women and children's homeless shelter, but I am certainly not planning on marrying any of the women there. For never married ladies, I would imagine that responsibility for them lay with their families.

It seems like the argument is really a justification of why to pursue poly. As one, it does have some merit, as I believe poly would help more people have strong, biblical marriages. However there are plenty of other ways to help and serve that probably would not be so contentious with a wife set against plural marriage. For instance, my wife and I adopted an older child with special needs about a decade ago. That falls directly under the widows and orphans scriptures, and has nothing to do with PM. It was a very hard road, but we learned a lot about love and sacrifice.

It comes down to the spirit in which something is done I think. If a guy seeks PM because he just wants another wife to satisfy his own desires, then I think it is as doomed to failure as a person who seeks mono marriage for the same reasons. I'm not saying that passion or desire can't or shouldn't be a part of it, but not the driving factor.
 
Women called to be single?

I would sure like to see scripture to back that up, because it sounds like a cop out generated by churches who reject polygyny.
I am aware of verses stating that woman was made for man, and everyone it seems is aware of those admonishing believers to care for widows and orphans. Why?
Could part of the consternation of the women in Isaiah be because they realize they are not fulfilling the purpose they were created for
I still maintain if it was not good for man to be alone, it is even less natural for the one who was made for him, to be alone.

I don't mean to sound harsh....but I'm typing on my stupid phone....and missing my keyboard.

Really...this is me :-D
 
Scripture to back which bit up?

If you mean me thinking that pursuing marriage (plural or mono) to satisfy one's ones desires being doomed to fail, well, that's not a direct biblical thing. I could find some scriptures that apply (Galatians 5:14-18, Ephesians 5:25) I guess, but I just feel marriage is a long haul kind of thing, and if your reasons for getting into it are selfish, then those reasons won't hold up. If your reason is to get with a hot girl, she'll age. If they're to get unconditional love, well, you'll annoy your spouse at some point.

Actually, I went ahead and looked around a bit to see if there was a better scriptural basis, and here you go:

James 3:16 - For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.

2 Timothy 3:6-9 (speaking about lover's of self) - 6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

Philippians 2: inclusive, but especially - 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

If you meant some other bit... well, then I guess I blathered on for no real reason, lol!
 
Women called to be single?

I was probably far from clear. The point that rubbed me wrong was the one about some women being called to be single.
I can think of nothing that would be more an act of God then losing a husband, but the believers are told to care for widows, not tell them "It appears God wants you to be single."

Just sayin'
 
I think that some men and women can be called to be single if God has a particular purpose for their lives. But I do agree that this is applied far too liberally by most churches to justify a monogamy position. It's true, but frequently abused.

Some women might also be called to marry someone they aren't going to meet until the age of 50. In this case choosing not to marry her at 40 is not abandoning her to singleness but allowing her to marry the man God has in mind for her - you just don't know the future. Seek God's will always, His plans are far bigger than ours.
 
I was speaking specifically about some never married people being called to be single (male or female), it seems to me that if you've already been married you're not really called to be single.

"Church people" get really dumb in general when someone dies. I want to throttle people who try and comfort a grieving soul by saying things like "Jesus wanted them home." Or "it was God's plan". Let's not forget we have an enemy too, who comes to kill, steal, and destroy!

Anyway, I hope it's obvious from my other posts that I am very pro poly as a solution for single Christian women. I just don't think it is ALWAYS the right move.
 
UntoldGlory said:
Scripture to back which bit up?

If you mean me thinking that pursuing marriage (plural or mono) to satisfy one's ones desires being doomed to fail, well, that's not a direct biblical thing. I could find some scriptures that apply (Galatians 5:14-18, Ephesians 5:25) I guess, but I just feel marriage is a long haul kind of thing, and if your reasons for getting into it are selfish, then those reasons won't hold up. If your reason is to get with a hot girl, she'll age. If they're to get unconditional love, well, you'll annoy your spouse at some point.

Actually, I went ahead and looked around a bit to see if there was a better scriptural basis, and here you go:

James 3:16 - For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.

2 Timothy 3:6-9 (speaking about lover's of self) - 6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

Philippians 2: inclusive, but especially - 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

If you meant some other bit... well, then I guess I blathered on for no real reason, lol!
Click to expand...

These passages refer to selfish ambition and what sounds to me ( especially the Timothy verse ) to be describing the kind of whacko cultist freaks who appear in the media from time to time, having psychologically enslaved a small compound of people. I am not sure these verses have anything to do with a necessarily negative appraisal of the desire for satisfying sexual desire. Firstly, is sexual desire, and the desire to satisfy it an evil thing? Is it necessarily a selfish thing? How many monogamists would, if they were honest, have to admit that sexual desire played a role in their desire to marry? Shall we call them sexual predators, or deviants, or apply the above passages to condemn them?

Yes, marriage is a 'long haul' kind of a thing, but that doesn't mean that sexual desire is an improper motivator... though it certainly shouldn't be the only motivation.
 
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